Seems like Flood of Junk

Originally posted by mattison0922

Originally posted by Rren
*mattison0922* is a bully though and I hear he's also a vegetarian...

Man... do they not have a vegetarians in your neck of the woods?

I'm pretty sure there's no such thing. Like there's no such place as Iowa. People make these things up. There's no support for your illness, nor for this "Iowa" place in my Bible therefore they do not exist.

Originally posted by freeyourmind


The Earth is not the center of the universe considering it is expanding in all directions at an incredible rate at all times from its center.

It is not expanding from it's "center" in the Big Bang model. Expansion is happening everywhere no matter/gravity is present ie, every galaxy is moving away from every other galaxy [that they are not gravitationally bound too.] No center. In a static [infinite/no expansion] model it looks like mattison just posted evidence for Earth as the center[ish].

When you say Old Earth you mean to corrulate the idea of a 4.6billion year Earth and 14Billion year Universe with the first seven days right.

You keep missing the point. We are in 'day' 7 right now. It will be 'day' 7 tomorrow just as it was 'day' 7 two thousand years ago. We [OECers, mattison is not a creationist] are not claiming the Bible says that the Earth is 14.6 billion years old, just that it says it's old. See? I'm just saying that the Bible does not claim the earth is 1)young, 2)created in six literal days or 3)flat and; there's no evidence to support that the people who authored Scripture nor their peers believed any of that either. That's why I asked for sources; context. I didn't learn that in preschool. I'm no expert of the complete history of the scientific world-view either that's why I asked for sources re: 'all of humanity believed that when the Bible was written.' My understanding of the scholary position is, that's false.

You have issues with how to interpret Scripture (snakes, miracles, Faith, etc..) which alot of people have, myself included. You have read the Bible, yes? Are these issues with science what you discovered while reading it or; did you hear other people's issues and decide to get those answered before reading it? I get the impression (perhaps just my failure to 'read' people properly online, who could) that most online critics do/did the latter.

I think you were/are to hasty to throw out all of Scripture based on any creationist interpretation, including my own. Here's a page from a theistic evolutionist for you to consider. How I understand Genesis: Argues that it's not scientific principals Genesis teaches but instead:

Stannard identifies a few core theological points made by the Genesis authors:
There is a God
There is a single all powerful God.
Man is formed in the 'image' of God
God takes a personal interest in Man's well-being.
Creation is seen to be good.
We are destined to fail to live up to our intended role.
We are fundamentally alienated from God

It's a short read and worth it in my opinion. A strict literal interpretation fails on many levels, science being only one. You seem to agree, but don't and without source/context I'm not sure what to say.

I'm not an expert on just about anything, don't think I'm close-minded either. But I have to understand what you're talking about and why you believe what you do. It really seems like a hodge-podge of all things critical... *shrug*

Regards,
-Beavis

(edit)can't spell, type or construct a proper sentence. BB code? Forget about it.

[edit on 6-8-2006 by Rren]

[edit on 6-8-2006 by Rren]

One question really? then obviously you did not read the rest of the thread namely the the first post.

OK you did not corrulate 14 billion yrs and the creation days that was Rren. But that was the whole line of discussion when you stepped in.

Now the return of Rren: missed ya buddy

Ok so the first 6 days = a long time ... getting better, really. More acceptable! Thank you for putting it that way. Altough too many of my questions and thoughts persist to allow me to resume my faith. Like the local or global flood. I read your link for a local flood but just doesn't convince me.

Yes I have read all of the New Testament front to back and most of the Old testament... I attended a baptist church sunday morning night and wed night for 15yrs. I am very familiar with the bible. So if you want to say that the book of Genesis is as a whole or in part a fable meant to teach us some values/lessons, and not actual event, that is unacceptable to me. I do respect your views. That is the reason I have only opened up like this here on this site where I figure people prepare their beliefs for such discussion. I do not present this to the baptist preacher I work with. It would make for a strain at the job.

I would like you guys to read my post on the thread titled something about christian conspiracy. That is how I really feel about all of this. I am agnostic. Not atheist. I just can't claim to know the answers which keeps my mind from believing in any particular set of beliefs.

One more question to pose at the moment, one that was one of the first that I came up with.... In Romans, Corinthians, etc. it states that the ONLY way to enter heaven is through Jesus Christ... what about all the billions of people in the jungles of Africa, Australia, The Americas, etc. over the thousands of yrs, did they have no chance?Are they burning in hell?

Originally posted by freeyourmind
One question really? then obviously you did not read the rest of the thread namely the the first post.

Oh, I read it. I also read the links that Rren posted. And I felt like many of the questions you posted were addressed. Otherwise it seems like you just keep going around in circles. Rren addressed the Joshua thing, and yet you bring it up again. It seems like you aren't interested in why people believe what they believe.

Now the return of Rren: missed ya buddy

Ok so the first 6 days = a long time ... getting better, really. More acceptable! Thank you for putting it that way. Altough too many of my questions and thoughts persist to allow me to resume my faith. Like the local or global flood. I read your link for a local flood but just doesn't convince me.

I would like you guys to read my post on the thread titled something about christian conspiracy.

Sorry... not really up my alley, nor in my area of expertise.

I just can't claim to know the answers which keeps my mind from believing in any particular set of beliefs.

Welcome to the club.

Originally posted by freeyourmind
One question really? then obviously you did not read the rest of the thread namely the the first post.

Now the return of Rren: missed ya buddy

That's Beavis bud, but thanks.

Ok so the first 6 days = a long time ... getting better, really. More acceptable! Thank you for putting it that way.

Thought I had, sorry. The links I gave explained it also i thought.

Altough too many of my questions and thoughts persist to allow me to resume my faith. Like the local or global flood. I read your link for a local flood but just doesn't convince me.

I'm sorry to hear you've lost your Faith, truely I am. I assume you pray about this, and I will too (no offense). There are some great things online about all these subjects; apologetics 'o plenty. I would suggest the theology forum in BTS for the *what does it all mean* type stuff. If you pray and this is where it led you then follow your instincts.

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.1 Thessalonians 5:21

For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. 2 Corinthians 13:8

I would like you guys to read my post on the thread titled something about christian conspiracy. That is how I really feel about all of this. I am agnostic. Not atheist. I just can't claim to know the answers which keeps my mind from believing in any particular set of beliefs.

I'll give it a read.

One more question to pose at the moment, one that was one of the first that I came up with.... In Romans, Corinthians, etc. it states that the ONLY way to enter heaven is through Jesus Christ... what about all the billions of people in the jungles of Africa, Australia, The Americas, etc. over the thousands of yrs, did they have no chance?Are they burning in hell?

This never came up in Bible study? Try Romans 4 and Romans 2:14-16 You'll find plenty of discussion on this in the theology forum also.

Regards,
-Beavis

(edit)Also you need to look up: fable, mythos and parable. Not sure if you misuse of the word fable is intentional or ignorant... either way.

[edit on 6-8-2006 by Rren]

I don't wish to overwhelm you Freeyourmind, as I hope you still reply to my last post to you, but....in order for God to be God he must be Supremely Soveriegn. This is one of His attributes and He is also Solitary, meaning that He does not need you or I, this earth, the universe or anything in order for Him to be God. Being Supremely Soveriegn means that nothing is unknown to Him, He controls all things and nothing catches Him by surprise so no one will be in heaven that should not be there, same for hell. There is no clerical error in Gods "office".

God has, before the foundations of the earth, predestined His "beloved". The Scripture states that no one comes to God for none seek after Him. He chooses us and all that are called will be saved.

To support this I will post up every Scripture that uses the word "predestined". There are only 5.

Acts 4:27-28
27 "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,

28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

Rom 8:29-30
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Eph 1:5
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Eph 1:11
11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,


There is another passage in 1 Cor. 2:7 but the context speaks of Gods wisdom while these passages directly speak of "MEN" and men alone. Not objects or anything else. So it is certain individuals who are "predestined" for salvation. If a man in the jungles of Africa has been predestined then he or she shall be saved.

Ok if God is omniscient and knew that this ship would sink and so many would perish in the eternal hell... then why did he do it.

not to get off subject but sometimes I think maybe it is like the matrix:

God has existed "forever", who is to say that this is not the trillionth time he has made an earth. Maybe b4 now they were perfect and didn't have free will. So this time he gave us free will and the following tragedies occured... still the questions remain, why did he allow so many of his children to be damned to hell. Just a theory maybe he sat around with his hands in his pockets for trillions of trillions of yrs(which would not even be a start).

Anyways... to answer your previous post unreal, a good one, as the mother of invention is neccessity I believe she is the mother of knowledge as well. Say you are an ancient human with little or no knowledge, through trial and error you learn the difference between say the "red" berries and the "blue" berries. Your senses see the difference and the neccessity of telling that difference births the colors. Red= bad, poisonous and blue= yummy, nutritous. I am sure you could think of more examples of this(Isure can). Like I said this is a good question. I have never denied the existence of a God or higher power or that there is not one. I just don't believe in the validity of the Bible.

good evening

Hello, sorry for the delay in response.

I'm glad to hear you have not discounted "God" altogether. Perhaps what you need to do is look at the options.

If you so find the time, think about this question and don't answer in haste, but truly think deeply upon it.

Can you create a god greater than the God revealed to us in Scripture?

List the attributes of this god and get back to me with your this information at your leisure.

Thanks and take care,