Message from a US citizen

I actually will say that I think you have a great country, and unlike alot of you think, a great leader. I think the relationship that the US and UK have formed in bush and blairs, terms have set a great wheel in motion for years to come. We have been allies for a very long time, but I don;t think our governments have ever been this close, and I am glad that they now are. I firmly stand beside bush and blair and think that with us together we can make the world a better place to live, have more peace, and calm the wars. With us together there is so much power that we can set the wheels in motion to really take the terrorists out and form a peace to the world. Sure there will still be violence, but not as much. And I am one of the few Americans left that would vote for Bush again, and if I lived in the UK I would vote for tony Blair. I feel that GWB has made mistakes in his presidency, but nothing so drastic, I think what he has done in his terms, in the long run will help the USA, not hurt it, and I feel the same about your PM.
The strong governmet relationship is there between us, now if we could only get the citizens of both countries to go along with it.
Have a good day.

Originally posted by l0rds0fcha0s
I feel that GWB has made mistakes in his presidency, but nothing so drastic

Going to war on a lie, isn't that a mistake? Misleading the American, and British Public, and getting caught, thats a mistake. Bush's time in power has been full of them.

I think what he has done in his terms, in the long run will help the USA, not hurt it, and I feel the same about your PM.

The US is more in Debt that it has ever been. Under Bush's two terms of office, hes had two wars - costing BILLIONS, wouldnt that have been better spent in schools, hospitals?? What Bush has done has not helped the US in the slighest, infact hes totally alienated the western world, and we all are now the enemy. When Bush took over, yes Islamic militants were shouting and screaming the downfall of the US, but look at the situation now, many countries and their people live in fear, from bomb blasts and suicide bombers. It is certain that if Bush and Blair hadn't invaded Iraq for no apparent reason, the London Bombs may not have happened. The War On Terror, as it as been coined has done the total opposite, installed fear and anguish in the population - Bush and Blair are both incompetant fools - and have set us back years.

Welcome and thanks for your input lOrdsOfchaOs.

Strong UK/US links are a vital part of the global dynamic and have been for a good long while.
Think Blair & Clinton, Thatcher & Reagan, Wilson & Kennedy, Macmillan & Eisenhower and Attlee & Truman......and of course not forgetting Churchill & Roosevelt.
None of them entirely 'friction-free' relationships and none of them flaw-free individuals either but nevertheless they were genuine, close and dependable relationships when it mattered and came down to it.

Much as I have my own personal views on Bush (I don't think he was the best man for the job and I disagree with several of his policies) I still think the US-UK link is of far more value than any transient political leader(ship) and must endure.

It's no secret, I used to be a member of the Labour party some years ago and they, not surprisingly, are the party of my choice.
I voted, as a party member, for Tony Blair way back then and for TB & Gordon Brown's 'social democrat' styling of it as 'New Labour' and voted for them in general elections - so perhaps it won't be such a surprise that I think Blair and Labour are the best choice for government in the UK.
As you said, not perfect and certainly not mistake free but on balance the best of the bunch by some margin, IMO.)

The surprise in British politics on this subject has been the indifference the British tory party has shown to the decline in relations they once had with the US (even with the Republican party in the US).
The tory attempt to use the dispute over the gulf war and tolerate and even harness anti-US feeling over it has been incredible.
Considering how things used to be with Thatcher & Reagan or even Major & Bush mk1 it is shocking yet in some ways no surprise that things got so bad that Bush mk2 refused to meet with Howard, the last tory leader!

[edit on 19-7-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Well you say he lied about the war in Iraq, maybe he did, but to me, either way, the mad man that was leading Iraq needed to be taken out of power one way or another. He was very similar to Hitler, in a sense that, he killed his own people in drastic numbers, and didn't care. Look at the "Good people" In Iraq. They are so thankful that Saddam was taken out of power, and I have seen interviews with Iraqi citizens that have said, their biggest fear now is that the US gov't will listen to it's people and leave Iraq. They are thankful for what we did. Even if he didn't have WMD's he still needed to be taken out of power, and he is. He killed thousands, and thousands, of his own citizens with no care at all, and that was reason enough for me.

Now you say he has cost us billions. Sure he has. But... If the war on terror works, then it would be worth it. Do you not remember why we are in the war on terror? Don't you remember the boing 757's that were flying into our buildings and such, and Al Queda celebrating it? The thousands of american people that were killed that day? I fully back the war on terror, and will always. I am a true red, white and blue, and I will stand by my president, and my country on it's descision to go to both wars. That's the problem with the american people. Most of them tend to forget the feeling they had on 9/11, so they now think that the whole government is bad.

Put them in the presidents shoes, and see the descision they make. If they are pus*ies and do nothing about it, then the US are the cowards of the world. GWB went and put the in a sense put a boot up afghanastan's as*.

And TB has backed us in all of it.

No government is perfect, but they can sure be alot worse. How would you like to live in Iran?

Lords of chaos, just a note from an American living in Britain.

True patriotism is NOT standing behind your president. True patriotism is standing behind the constitution and ideals that America was founded on. Since Bush is violating these sacred precepts, I do not support him since I view him a greater threat to freedom and human dignity than any group of ragtag nutjobs who will blow themselves up for 40 virgins or whatever.

Its your right to support the president though. I simply hope you support him because his views and plans reflect your own, and not because your fear terrorists or because hes the prez.

You'll find most British people do not care for Bush and feel not only is he not smart enough to be president, he lacks the tact, diplomacy, and restraint needed for a man whose finger rests on the controls of the worlds biggest military.

Don't forget that Clinton and Blair had a good relationship, as well. I think this says a lot more about Blair than it does either Clinton or Bush. It is likely that Blair and Bush differ on many philosophical issues, but clearly they are united in their opposition to Islamic fascism. Britain and the US need one another in order to maintain freedom in the world. Despite those here from Britain who have little to say good about Bush or the US, the relationship between the US and Britain remains strong and will likely remain so for many years to come.

The so called war on terror has cost us billions and will cost us billions more because it has caused so much damage to so much of the world’s opinion about the West in so little time. There may have been problems with how America was perceived on September the 10th 2001 but if only it could become like that again; that would be an achievement that the current strategy could never grasp.
The war on terror has cost us civil liberties, will cost us more and has weakened the inability of those in government to make us into a dictatorship.

As for Saddam he kept the country together, the majority of the people in that country are Muslim fundamentalists (Shiite Muslims). These people would hardly be opposed to democratically legalising the stoning to death of a woman for committing adultery. They are already openly talking about building alliances with Iran, and have committed small scale genocide against Iraq’s minority Secular Muslim Sunni population. Intellectuals are being killed, nobody is free to speak there mind because a terrorist will blacklist them. It was better before when Iraqis knew what the law was; when they could go anywhere they wanted without being abducted.
People like to forget that most who rebelled against Saddam did so for religious reasons. Fundamentalist Muslim almost by definition means intolerant of other faiths. Saddam was secular and through his approach of people living that Iraq before the first Gulf war had 92% literacy and 93% access to free health care of a often first world standard. Sanctions were introduced April 1990 and the oil for programme started October 1997. During that time many Iraqis died; even though Saddam had already complied and unilaterally disarmed. Even all the money from the oil for food programme (65 billion dollars) had reached Iraqi it would only have only provided 2,426 dollars for every Iraqi man woman and child over a 6 year period (yep 404 dollars a year; or 7.778 a weak).
However because the oil for food programme had to provide rich Kuwait with compensation only 46 billion was ever allowed to go to Iraqi people 1717 dollars per person over 6 years = 286.24 dollars per year; equals 5.5 dollars a week for every man woman and child. This is the biggest reason why Iraq had fallen into so much poverty under our sanctions.

Oil for food programme
en.wikipedia.org... (46 billion provided to Iraqis in 6 years)
Iraq population 26,783,383
www.cia.gov...

Saddam may have built palaces; but not a single one was built or even completed during sanctions. And his single act of nationalising Iraq’s oil reserves on coming to power (from British ownership; a colonel legacy) would have saved Iraqis more money than he spent on his palaces.
Saddam did everything we asked him to do; but we the West have demonstrated what happens to any Arab who disarms themselves of WMD’s. They blatantly knew he had none because it was our immanent bombing campaign (and not Saddam) that withdrew the weapons inspectors the last final time. Saddam tolerated woman’s education, them wearing western clothing, Christians and other faiths living together; and he brought order over a population that would rather be like an even more extreme version of Iran.
Blair’s unity with Bush has simply meant the worlds to biggest arms exporters have almost identical foreign policies, be supporting Israel with soldier search-terroritory expansion in Lebanon, or supporting the same war for the same reasons. We are united as force for evil in this world, with a population feeding itself on battery chicken, hydrogenated fat, addictive msg, and many other bad for body or brain chemicals. We are a polluting consumer society that isn’t that interested in politics; which is probably kind of good because some people are so pacified that they’ll watch fox news and believe it; watch sky, read the sun, and occasionally look at the times without realising they the same owner and the same objectives.
And of course that’s relevant because Murdoch is friends with Blair and Bush; even visited Blair at Downing Street 3 times in one month (March) though no one revealed what he said.
Finally look at how popular our troops were in Iraq according to our own MOD’s research: www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2005/10/23/wirq23.xml

“Forty-five per cent of Iraqis believe attacks against British and American troops are justified - rising to 65 per cent in the British-controlled Maysan province;”

We are held the world over; have a centrally owned mass media; and wonder why we are hated as what we do doesn’t turn up when we walk down the high Street. And far from associating the pioneers of our position in this world (like Blair and Bush) with evil; we instead think they apart of some solution, just as people pro war David Cameron offer an alternative. They even think peaceful protest makes a difference despite it being ignored in almost every case in history (last exception was the polls tax riots and hardly peaceful was it). They think it makes a difference; and they read it’s been banned within a kilometre of parliament: news.bbc.co.uk...

If you have any questions about the facts mentioned in my little rant I’ll be happy to back them up.

Help me here.... I am not trying to offend you in away but what is the point of this thread. This is conspiracy board right... yet you post about your love of both the US and UK goverments. I am not sure if you are trying to spread propaganda because there are hundreds of other boards you can say something positive about the adminstration of these two countries. I mean are you ignoring all the facts of what these adminstrations have done in the past or do you feel happier being ignorant. no offense

Originally posted by l0rds0fcha0s
Don't you remember the boing 757's that were flying into our buildings and such, and Al Queda celebrating it?

Don't you remember the celebrations of Israeli agents, politicans, and citizens?

You have voted Liberal1984 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Liberal,

I appreciate all the research you put into your post. I wanted to write something similar but I had little info to back it up. I agree with you on every point.

~Pink_Cola

As do I, 84 is a great guy and worthy of Scholar status imo.

Originally posted by Revelmonk
Help me here.... I am not trying to offend you in away but what is the point of this thread. This is conspiracy board right... yet you post about your love of both the US and UK goverments. I am not sure if you are trying to spread propaganda because there are hundreds of other boards you can say something positive about the adminstration of these two countries. I mean are you ignoring all the facts of what these adminstrations have done in the past or do you feel happier being ignorant. no offense

Um no this is not a conspiracy board, this is a fact and conspiracy board. the real conspiracy board is ATS

Originally posted by Revelmonk
Help me here.... I am not trying to offend you in away but what is the point of this thread. This is conspiracy board right...

Wrong. PTS - Political Discussion.

PS - Sorry Lordsofchaos - didnt read the last post before posting this - silly me

[edit on 20-7-2006 by Conspirator_101]