The Secret U.S. Space Program

Okay, so we have this stoned hacker Gary McKinnon, John Lear, and Phil Corso, Jr., all taking about this secret U.S. space program, where we fly around in souped up spaceships to various planets and interact with aliens (or time travelers, same difference). And all of this is going on without the general public knowing anything at all about it? I just find it all a little hard to believe, particularly without any evidence to back it up.

These guys with "inside information" are just the limit. Personally, I think that unless you have some real, solid evidence that can back up what you say, then I just can't accept it.

Oh, well, if it's all real, I at least hope they can protect us against invasion or something, or I'll really feel like all that tax money I've paid was just funneled into Halliburton's pockets.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by Enkidu]

I think the majority of people that considered the earth was flat were quite surprised when they found out different. I choose to belief we have the capability of provide free energy, surf the galaxy, and probably can withstand an attack from another civilization. I also believe that movies such as Independence Day are meant to "condition" the public for future disclosure.

Do I have solid proof? No, I do not. It appears those that do have solid proof are either afraid to talk(death is a great motivator), or have been silenced in one way or another. I believe Corso's book is a prime example of someone with great knowledge who could not speak, whether out of fear or duty, but left his words for after his death.

Let's face it, credible people have come out and made outrageous claims, yet we still yearn for solid proof. More are speaking out every day. I don't believe in mass delusion, so I am guessing that maybe we are the unfortunate ones who have yet to see what others have known for decades!

Enkidu:

Gilgamesh here, long time, no see.

Sorry. That just popped out. Anyway, I didn't take the time yet to watch Junior's video. I have Senior's book, though, and it's one of those that I end up throwing across the room about halfway through. I can stand to read it once in a while, but it's tough to get past some parts. The "secret info" is just bogus. What isn't easily contradictable by citing volumes of precursor knowledge, is often technically inaccurate. It's pretty tough to pretend that we got quantum physics from aliens, when the publications are still running around showing that it existed prior to Roswell. First edition stuff, too, and refereed journals, pretty tough to fake all the copies that are still around. If you want to say "I saw weird alien bodies at Wright Pat", well, ok, that's part of the fun in reading this stuff. But if you want to then try saying that, for example, fiber optics did not exist in any form and were a grand surprise to everyone in 1947, well, no. That's one of the small things, there are a lot of places where I just snort, and occasionally toss the book for something less bogus.

I can't believe that Junior has improved on this, and personally, my guess is that he's probably trying to get some money off Dad's "success".


John Lear, I actually was sort of pondering until in another thread he said that people live on the Moon, Venus and Saturn. Not sure if he's trying to be facetious, but it sounded like he literally meant it. End of belief. Got a nice 12" reflector. I can SEE the Moon, in pretty good detail. No atmosphere. No people. Saturn, well, the math is easy to work on how much solar energy arrives there, or ever did. It's a frozen gas ball. Venus, it's not beyond the realm of amateur astronomers to measure the atmospheric temp using radiometers. And it's been done. I guess the Illuminati are hard at work covering it up or something, because you don't actually have to take NASA's word for it.


McKinnon found a honeypot. There are a lot of them. I have seen some DOE ones, they're really funny...they sell nuclear weapons components on the internet, all you need is a Visa, and you have to really work hard to find those pages. They look like a "mistake" the web site maintainer made. Order some, watch the fun. I especially liked the "there were other hackers out there every night!". Dude. You really need to hang with some DISA nerds, the honeypot stories are legend.


As far as "secret space programs" go, I'm sure there are many. Maybe not UFO's with US flags on them, but plenty of really amazing aerospace stuff goes on. You can spot the bread crumb trails of some of it if you know where to look.

As far as "free energy" goes, I have a general 'what if' question but it's a threadjack, so I'll leave it.

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam

John Lear, I actually was sort of pondering until in another thread he said that people live on the Moon, Venus and Saturn. Not sure if he's trying to be facetious, but it sounded like he literally meant it. End of belief.

Confirmed: I am not trying to be facetious. I really mean it.

Got a nice 12" reflector. I can SEE the Moon, in pretty good detail. No atmosphere. No people.

A 12' reflector? Well, I guess that ends that argument.

Saturn, well, the math is easy to work on how much solar energy arrives there, or ever did. It's a frozen gas ball.

A frozen gas ball? You're kidding?

Venus, it's not beyond the realm of amateur astronomers to measure the atmospheric temp using radiometers. And it's been done.

And not only that but the Russians have been there several times and those incredible Venera's were able to survive a descent and land on a surface that was 450 degrees C. (hot enough to melt lead), manage not to land in a volcano spewing lava all over the place, survive 90 bars of pressure AND THEN transmit back data. Now there is Russian technology for you!

As far as "free energy" goes, I have a general 'what if' question but it's a threadjack, so I'll leave it.

No, no, Tom. You're one the guys..feel right at home...threadjack away!

Confirmed: I am not trying to be facetious. I really mean it.

Sometimes it's hard for me to be sure on the net.

A 12' reflector? Well, I guess that ends that argument.

No construction. No atmosphere. No lights. You can see stars occult, and you don't see atmospheric blurring as they do. Further, many a photo has been made with some really serious telescopes, the images match to a gnat's ass back as far as you want to go. No atmospheric blurring of the disk, none of occulting stars. It's quite the stretch to say every observatory both amateur and professional have been co-opted. A lot of this stuff an interested person can do for themselves not depending on the net. Again, if a star appears to be a point source as it occults, there's no atmosphere. Not that that isn't evident by the detail of the disk, no atmospheric blur there either.

/edit/ No atmospheric banding either, at the horizon. You'd be able to see this clearly.

And not only that but the Russians have been there several times and those incredible Venera's were able to survive a descent and land on a surface that was 450 degrees C. (hot enough to melt lead), manage not to land in a volcano spewing lava all over the place, survive 90 bars of pressure AND THEN transmit back data. Now there is Russian technology for you!

However, using leftover equipment from the Rad Lab, the atmospheric temperature of Venus was measured using radiometers back in the 50's. It's not beyond the reach of a well-funded amateur now.

As far as Venera goes, most such instrumentation is done using some sort of Dewar thermal isolator and a big heat dump of some sort inside the Dewar. The instruments don't last long, and aren't intended to. It's not unheard of currently, though, to be able to stand 250-350 C without a Dewar, at least for several days, although it requires specialized semiconductors.

Oh, and Venus isn't actually thought to be covered with currently active volcanoes, although for some reason it appears to have been "resurfaced" during some major event long ago...there's a lot of flat nearly featureless areas on the SAR data. Although I'm sure you'll say the SAR data is fake.

No, no, Tom. You're one the guys..feel right at home...threadjack away!

Actually, I haven't been on ATS long so I'm not sure about the unwritten rules. I suspect I'll be banned for just pointing out why I don't agree with you.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by Tom Bedlam]

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam

No construction. No atmosphere. No lights. You can see stars occult, and you don't see atmospheric blurring as they do. Further, many a photo has been made with some really serious telescopes, the images match to a gnat's ass back as far as you want to go. No atmospheric blurring of the disk, none of occulting stars. It's quite the stretch to say every observatory both amateur and professional have been co-opted. A lot of this stuff an interested person can do for themselves not depending on the net. Again, if a star appears to be a point source as it occults, there's no atmosphere. Not that that isn't evident by the detail of the disk, no atmospheric blur there either.

Thanks Tom,

Sorry but both V. A. Firsoff, Fellow of Royal Astronomical Society and the late Harvard Professor, W. H. Pickering disagree with you on many points including an atmosphere on the moon. As you were working with a 12" reflector and they had access to Yerkes, Lick and Palomar and other large telescopes and because they each documented their findings, Firsoff in "Strange World of the Moon, and Pickering in numerous articles, I think I will stick with their conclusions. Had I known you were going to hang yourself out like you did in the above post I would have suggested you read some of Firsoffs and Pickerings notes first.


But thanks for the post anyway.

Well, I guess literally there is some gaseous accretion, so you'd have to say there is an atmosphere of sorts, about 10E-4 atmospheres, not enough to see refraction during occultation and of a density that it would qualify as a decent vacuum in the lab.

Opik, Hazard, Elsmore, Whitfield et al used various means to try to detect the atmospheric density using the same instruments you name in various ways, none were able to.

I knew that Firsoff had argued for a very tenuous temporary atmosphere following asteroidal or major meteoroidal impacts, which actually makes sense, and of course during any period of vulcanism it had one.

But if you're arguing for a breathable atmosphere, take some of those Palomar shots and notice that the detail at the limbs are of the same degree as that of the disc. Were there more than a few milliTorr of any sort of gas, you'd expect that the limbs would be blurrier than the disc, even if there weren't enough to see banding.

I'll go see if there's a copy of the book I can get, though, never let it be said I wouldn't go read someone's cite.



[edit on 10-7-2006 by Tom Bedlam]

I really doubt we have to worry about aliens invading or some sort of far out scenerio like that. It would be more realistic to worry about Iran or some other country around there getting a bit trigger happy with nuclear weapons and fanatical ideologies.

We are a lot more threatening and realistic than any supposed aliens.

But I have to agree with you about the evidence and proof thing. Nearly impossible to tell whois right and who is wrong because theres so much crap.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by CidCaldensfey]

Well, I found a copy of Firsoff with no difficulties. You wouldn't happen to have any PDF's of Pickering's publications that you found enlightening handy, would you? Otherwise, I'll have to trudge off to the Interlibrary Loan for copies.