Humans are too.....

I dont know if i should write this thread in fragile earth, because it seems alot of people in this section are the opposite to the way I think, but here goes.

I have recently been thinking alot about the actions eviromentalists take to save an animal, or the earth for that matter, and I get so mad because it seems like they do not think as far into the long run as they think they do.

what I am trying to say is, lets take an example, beached wales, I want to know why Humans are so arrogant that they think it is our responsibility to return these creatures to the ocean? just because they wash up on "our" beaches, its thiers too. I dont understand because we dont even know, what the reason for that wale beaching itself are, it could be anything from the wale feeling depressed and WANTING to die, or it could be that it has a desease and other wales have forced it to die, away from the ocean. Yes I have heard of the sonar, thats the worst BS I have heard in so long.

Or another example would be the global warming issue, I dont think anyone is arguing that its happening anymore, but the argument is weither we caused it.. This is another huuge arrogance on humanitys part, to think for the tiny amount of time we have lived on this earth we have suddenly caused it to warm. I guess the earth has been the same temp for its all its exsistence right? What caused the ice age? were humans around and they were using anti-gas that released anti-co2 into the atmosphere, cooling it? ahah that was dumb, but you should understand what I am getting at.

If humans take on this responsibility, and do devise a way to make the earth cooler, then wont more bad things come from it? such as species going into evolutionary limbo, because there is no reason to evolve any further? I dont understand how scientists arnt making this connection, especially if I can. There is no way this wouldent happen, we cannot take action to change the earth until we are 100% sure we are the cause, and there is no way we have had evidence to show 100%. Sometimes negative things have to happen, to allow a flood of positive developments to happen.

I fully support our attempts at breading species that are becoming extinct, but only if its extintion is conclusivly shown to be our fault, I am sure that had we been living with the technology we have today during the dinosaurs we would be trying to save them, look at how different the earth is now, entire species die out, ranging from insects, animals and plants.

anyway I fear I am just rambling now, let me know what you think, and hopefully as some more trains of thought into this.

Humans are indeed being tested for their mistakes. If humanity didnt realize and / or make wrong move, they will perish....But yet, human was given with amazing wit and ability to overcoming trouble....so thats the chance given to humanity it seems.....

Its up to humans to use the chance given to them or not.....

Just my personal thought, nothing so scientific here ^^

im not so sure that you read what I wrote? I wasnt saying humans need to stop global warming, I was saying they are taking too much responsibilty for something we are not even sure we need to be. I thought I made that pretty clear? your post sounds like you just read global warming, then posted what you did without actually reading what I wrote.

no one has anything to contribute? or is what I said to sensitive to all the enviromentalists hanging around the "fragile" earth section?

Acura, maybe you misunderstand the intention of those who actually care about the earth. The point is not alter the natural ways of the nature but more like cleaning up the mess we have made out of ignorance. It´s an attitude thing...have a look at any street in any mid size town in any country and you will quickly learn that "man" don´t give a d*** about his surroundings unless it´s his own territory (most people keep their houses clean). IMHO an environmentalist who thinks predators should not go down on it´s prey because they feel sorry for the prey understands nothing of the natural ways and is so forth not an environmentalist. Er...might be a bad example but you get the point.

(Note, might be useful to define an "environmentalist" before getting into this dscussion)

Actually we are directly resonsible for the extinction of many species of creatures and plants on this planet in this era.

I am not sure but the beaching of whales but it maybe caused by the sona equipment on most morden ships and submarines, are there many reports of whale beachings before the use of modern sona or other high/low frequancy sound devices?

The global warming cycle in this era is too rapid, there are no super volcanos or giant astroids that can be blamed for this acceleration. Past global warming cycles take a very very long time.

The thining and hole in the ozone layer is directly caused by mankind. The ozone layer protects the Earth's surface from harmful heat rays from the sun. The Earth surface will get hotter evenually and together with the smog, pollution, carbon dioxide contributed partly/mainly by man, a green house effect will heat up the atmosphere causing a rapid global warming.

We cannot deny that we did not speed up the heating process, even should the sun become hotter now, we did contribute in part to the damage of the planets atmosphere and natural ability to protect us from suns harmful heat rays.

I don't think there is any question about what has caused much of the damage to plant and animal species. Most people are well aware that the extinction of many plants and animals is the direct result of human action.

Global warming is a complex issue, but the portion of the scientific community that I am in contact with accept it as fact that humans are to blame for much of (not all of) the warming process.

Knowing these things, it becomes humankind's responsibility to halt it's destructive practices.

Those who fight global warming aren't trying to cool the Earth down, they are trying to stop people from doing the things that caused it to heat up.

As far as saving beached whales:
If you saw a person drowning would you try to save that person? You wouldn't know how the person got in the water. You wouldn't know if they had been ostracized by their family and driven to jump in. Maybe the person has a disease. Some people might see a person drowning and just say to themselves, "Its not my problem, maybe this is how that person is supposed to die."

Human nature sometimes leads people to try to help when they see a person (or a whale) in danger - regardless of the fact that they have no idea how the person (or whale) got there.

I don't think its arrogance that makes people want to help, I think its just the way some people try to look beyond their own immediate needs and feel compassion for another soul.

Originally posted by ixiy
Actually we are directly resonsible for the extinction of many species of creatures and plants on this planet in this era.

This is a population/human consumption problem. We need a place to build shelter, so we take out a few trees. We need to heat our homes (in colder climates) so we cut more trees. The local ecosystem shrinks, and certain things (plants, animals, insects) disappear.

What's your point?

Originally posted by ixiy
The global warming cycle in this era is too rapid, there are no super volcanos or giant astroids that can be blamed for this acceleration. Past global warming cycles take a very very long time.

You sir, are right. Except you forgot to accurately find the reference point, which makes you WRONG. See, the Earth has been on a warming cycle for 15,000 years. Yes, there has been an increase in the last century, but in the grand scheme of things, it is a small blip.

Link to Global Temperature Graph

Originally posted by ixiy
We cannot deny that we did not speed up the heating process, even should the sun become hotter now, we did contribute in part to the damage of the planets atmosphere and natural ability to protect us from suns harmful heat rays.

You point to the smoke, and claim a building is on fire, but in reality, a match is burning.

What we may have done in the last 100, or even 150 years, is next to nil. Mankind has alot less to do with GW than most alarmist will have you believe.

The Earth has been alot hotter than it is now, and potentially could get 100 years from now. About 130,000 years ago, was it the oil companies who conspired to cause GW then? Big American businesses? George W. Bush? Jesus? Crazy hermaphrodite aliens?

Maybe the logical answer is the simple one.

Im glad someone sees my point of view, I donno I am just not one to fall into a crowd on certain ideas. I would say a large amount of people who got all worried about the Y2K deal, are the same ones who get worried about global warming.

annd, that link you provided is both reputable and not bias. thanks

[edit on 17-7-2006 by acura_el2000]