Seattle mother arrested for "kidnapping" her own baby to seek alternative treatments

Posted Friday, June 30, 2006 by Mike Adams, Key concepts: medical terrorism, child protective services and terror.

Public trust in conventional medicine has plummeted to such an all-time low that the industry is now resorting to the threat of violence in order to market its services. Gunpoint medicine is alive and well in Seattle, Washington, where county law enforcement officers, prompted by Child Protective Services (CPS), arrested and jailed 34-year-old Tina Marie Carlsen for her "crime" of rescuing her infant from overzealous hospital staff who demanded they perform kidney surgery on the infant.
Terrorized by the incident, charged with second-degree kidnapping of her own child, and threatened with bail of $500,000, Tina Carlsen was jailed for several days, during which she was unable to provide lifesaving mother's milk to her baby (which is crucial for a child's brain and immune system). She has still not been allowed physical contact with her infant son

www.newstarget.com...

So now, medicine at gunpoint seems to be here. Never mind your religious beliefs, never mind thinking about alternatives. That's all a thing in the past.
Child Protective Services will make the desicion for you. Like it or lump it.

Carlsen's child was taken from her by Child Protective Services after she refused to drug her infant with doctor-prescribed medications in preparation for surgery to implant kidney dialysis devices. She was also reportedly threatened by a nephrologist (a kidney specialist), who, according to relatives, demanded, "You do what I tell you to do, or I will have the police at the door, taking that baby from you."

And that's exactly what happened: The doctor called Child Protective Services, and CPS won a court battle to take custody of the child based entirely on Carlsen's refusal to submit the child to conventional surgery. When Carlsen rescued her own child from the Children's Hospital and Regional Medical Center, a statewide Amber Alert was issued, which mobilized law enforcement to arrest the mother. Initially, the alert claimed the child was in "imminent danger," but this was later contradicted by hospital staff members who issued a statement admitting the child was not in imminent danger.

Amber alerts! Police! Charges of kidnapping!!!
This is sick.

Mod Edit: BB Code.

[edit on 3/7/2006 by Mirthful Me]

No?

Is it an old story or am i just overreacting or is this insignificant or we just dont care about these things anymore???

Everyone has a right to seek alternative treatments- at least, we used to.

They threatened and followed thru on calling the police on this mother who simply wanted to check out alternative methods.....

Are we all that apathetic now?

DG -

I didn't read in the article where the disagreement with the doctor(s) was over seeking an alternative treatment for the child. What I read was that she was refusing ANY treatment.

This could be from a lack of complete information in the article or a slant to the article.

Yes, I read the tie-in to parents wanting to use alternative treatments for their children or for themselves but I don't think the article ties this to this particular mother at all.

If I missed it in the article, can you quote it for me? I have read it three time now and still don't see it.

Also, we are still on a four day holiday here, so as for people not responding to this out of apathy, I don't think that is a fair assessment. Relax.

JDub

hYes it is kind of shocking, not this case in particular, but the trend. This could be just the beginning.

It will begin with these extreme cases of Mothers seeking alternative treatments for their children and being jailed. They intend to show how negligent the mother is. According to the CPS, you can't make life changing decisions for your child, they are made for you. It is defendable for them because a child is involved.

If the trend continues just wait.. until your no longer to decide for your "own" body, and they force you to have surgery even if you don't want it. They will put you out with a hospital drug, and you will just wake up after the surgery. They won't even need your consent.
Alternative medicines will be akin to illegal drugs, (some already are) and you may be jailed for even seeking them out...

Look at all the new cases of arrest based on "intent" even though the crime was never commited, but "you were thinking about it".
(the beginnings of this are the under-age girl online stings, or the murder-for-hire stings, etc.) And although these examples are a "good" use of the model, how far will they take the "thought police". (what was that Tom Cruise movie?)
People going to jail even though nobody was murdered, and no actual under-age molestation happened.
Take it to it's eventual end and you'll get a ticket in the mail for even "thinking" about parking in a no-parking zone.
Then look at the Anti-terrorism excuse to look at everyone's bank records, phone calls, etc. And of course.... who is going to oppose all this activity without appearing to be "one of them" right?
Sorry to go on a tangent... but I want people to see all this control creeping up on them.

The religious exemption should still be valid. I wonder if she did not explore that option.



[edit on 3-7-2006 by MonoIonic_Gold]

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

www.king5.com...

p.s. You might want to do some research on Mike Adams (AKA The Health Ranger) to get some perspective on his... Slant on this story.

The article plainly states that the mother wanted alternative treatment. If it is not worded or put together correctly, i dont know what to tell you....

Alternative medicine surrounds this so called "kidnapping" throughout the whole story.

Look at the WHOLE STORY. What right do these doctors have? imo, unless she was an "unfit" mother, a mother who didnt care, a mother who because of a mental problem could not "make desicions", then i might see whats going on.

This mother seemed totally fit and able to care for her child.

Originally posted by BlueTileSpook
DG -

I didn't read in the article where the disagreement with the doctor(s) was over seeking an alternative treatment for the child. What I read was that she was refusing ANY treatment.

I have the same comments as the above poster.

What alternatives are there to Kidney Dialasis? Kidney Failure isn't some "mild allergy" you know(which Alternatives can be great for treatment).

If my parents treated my health with such a...cavalier attitude...I would not be alive today...

This article is completely slanted and unobjective focusing solely on the "oppression" angle of the whole incident.

I've had experience with "Alternatives" and let me tell you, when it's a potentially life and death situation, you don't mess around. My Aunt messed around with Alternatives for a year while she was dying of Cancer, if she would have been undergoing regular therapy at that time, she would still be here today.(Even in the 80s, this form was completely curable).

As for this woman, she sounds like a New Age flake.

Well, i obviously didnt make the story up.

Its nothing- disregard it. I can make sense of the story and its insulting to me.
It should be insulting to everyone.

But, we're all different. I already stated above ^^ the story may not have been written "about the alternative treatment" You place great importance on this.

I want to know if the mother was UNFIT. A mother who is FIT will seek treatment, and for you to come to the conclusion that she wasnt seeking alternative treatment, well, that's not the greatest gest of this story.

Make of it what you want.

*where county law enforcement officers, prompted by Child Protective Services (CPS), arrested and jailed 34-year-old Tina Marie Carlsen for her "crime" of rescuing her infant from overzealous hospital staff who demanded they perform kidney surgery on the infant.
Terrorized by the incident, charged with second-degree kidnapping of her own child, and threatened with bail of $500,000, Tina Carlsen was jailed for several days, during which she was unable to provide lifesaving mother's milk to her baby (which is crucial for a child's brain and immune system). She has still not been allowed physical contact with her infant son

Yes, she's a lousy mother. Notice "lifesaving mother's milk crucial for a childs immune system"

It appears to me this woman cared. Its the system- they want your kids.

DOES IT SAY THEY KEPT THE CHILD AWAY FROM HER BECAUSE SHE BEATS THE KID? IS SHE MENTALLY ILL? iS SHE NOT FIT TO MOTHER? NOOOOOOO!


[edit on 3-7-2006 by dgtempe] Even if it is crucial that this child get this treatment, why keep the mother from breast feeding it???? Is the child a prisoner?

[edit on 3-7-2006 by dgtempe]

AND TO TOP IT OFF, THE CHILD WAS NOT IN IMMINENT DANGER!!!!!

[edit on 3-7-2006 by dgtempe]

Originally posted by Astronomer70
I have the same comments as the above poster.

Rogers has defended Carlsen, and Wednesday he said she had simply been following the advice of relatives who have kidney disease to "search the world over" to find alternatives to dialysis.

"They told her she was doing the right thing," Rogers said.

Source

Riley’s father, 38-year old Todd Rogers, said although he's split with Carlsen they were both raising Riley and mostly in agreement on his treatment plan.

They were experimenting with natural medicine to treat Riley's deformed kidneys.

Rogers said their doctor at Children's was strongly opposed and called Child Protective Services.

Source

It was stated very clearly in these articles that the woman was looking for anything but dialysis for the child. A mother looking for options in the treatment of her child was what I thought to be a good thing! Also mentioned in one of those articles is how the Amber Alert was issued saying the child was in imminent danger of loss of life, the next day the hospital made a statement saying this was untrue. Of course, by then they already had the child in their custody, so I suppose there was no need for continued drama.

Originally posted by sardion2000
What alternatives are there to Kidney Dialasis? Kidney Failure isn't some "mild allergy" you know(which Alternatives can be great for treatment).

If my parents treated my health with such a...cavalier attitude...I would not be alive today...

As for this woman, she sounds like a New Age flake.

That is your experience. I however had severe asthma as a child, and was continuously going into treatment in a hospital for pnuemonia time after time. My aunt is an naturopathic doctor, and finally convinced my mom to let her try to help me. Because of my mom doing that I am happy, healthy, and alive today.

A mother that looks for options is now a New Age flake? Wow, what a long way we've come in this world...

We're not talking respiratory condition.

We're talking about a potentially serious organ problem.

I've also had severe asthma for as long as I remember and have tried all the natural remedies and they were not any where as effective as good ole Excersize,Ventalin, Advair and Compulsive dusting, but that is not the discussion.

For the record I don't mind if Natural remedies are used in Tandem with Conventional treatments, many studies have shown this to be effective. I guess it's just one of the many differences in systems between My country and the one down south.

I've also had problems with my kidneys and the specialists and surgeons were very wary of doing ANY surgury and prefered to just watch and wait to see if I healed on my own.(It was an actual Injury sustain in a stupid mistake on by Bycycle but NEways...). If they thought that surgury was the best bet, then if I were a parent(or a patient), I would defer to their years of school and experience.

You do no what Kidneys are for right? A body unable to filter toxins will die a horribly painful death. Not something I'd wish on anyone.

DG -

I read the two articles posted by Mirthful Me, and both of those stated that she was looking for an alternative treatment for the baby and was being denied that by the hospital.

My only point was that the article that you posted had a misleading title when compared with the body of the story. In my reading of it, it didn't mention that she was looking for an alternative treatment, only other stories of people being denied natural treatments were referenced.

Having several chronic health conditions myself and having a son that has one, I place great importance on having a say in my and my son's healthcare. I didn't say that you made the story up for any sensationalist reason. I understand the gravity of the situation when it is put in context, but IMO, that wasn't done with the first article. It was very succintly summed up in the latter two. That isn't a personal attack on you, it was just a weak story IMO.

I don't know what the reference to

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
p.s. You might want to do some research on Mike Adams (AKA The Health Ranger) to get some perspective on his... Slant on this story.

actually pertains to, whether the author is locally known for sensationalizing medical stories or not. I don't live in Seattle and have never heard of the author until reading this today.

We have many problems with CPS here where I live. The more major problems make the news media while many are overlooked or forgotten. We had a man two or three years ago that camped (literally) outside a local juvenile facility (non-criminal) for six months that had his son taken away by the State because they said he couldn't adequately take care of the boy. This was untrue, it was because the man lived below the poverty level.

The man's only intention in camping across the road from the facility was so that he could at least see and wave at his son as the boy was taken on a bus to and from the local school, thereby letting the son know that the father hadn't abandoned him.

The judge would not allow the father to have visits with the boy under any circumstance, and the judge considered jailing the father as a "public nuisance" to the facility even though the father was never disruptive with chants or signs or anything along those lines.

Eventually the boy was discharged back to the father's care, but it was 6 long months in a tent for the father.

JDub

Originally posted by niteboy82

Rogers has defended Carlsen, and Wednesday he said she had simply been following the advice of relatives who have kidney disease to "search the world over" to find alternatives to dialysis.

"They told her she was doing the right thing," Rogers said.

Source

Riley’s father, 38-year old Todd Rogers, said although he's split with Carlsen they were both raising Riley and mostly in agreement on his treatment plan.

They were experimenting with natural medicine to treat Riley's deformed kidneys.

Rogers said their doctor at Children's was strongly opposed and called Child Protective Services.

Source

dgtempe: Had the above two articles been linked with this story to begin with I would have had no questions, but they were not. There was only one link provided and that was to a blog.

Having now read the two articles above I see where your last comment came from. The Dr. did indeed over react to this young woman and should be chastized by the AMA for what he did. Furthermore, the young woman may have grounds to sue someone.

[edit on 3-7-2006 by Astronomer70]

if the only way to save a child is immediate care, then by all means, arrest the mother for seeking alternative treatment

now an adult should be allowed to choose whether or not they want treatment, but they can't endanger someone else's life

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
if the only way to save a child is immediate care, then by all means, arrest the mother

For the last time, the child was not in imminent danger.

Originally posted by dgtempe

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
if the only way to save a child is immediate care, then by all means, arrest the mother

For the last time, the child was not in imminent danger.

Not that day, no. But should we instead allow the mother to seek a homeopathic treatment while the infant's kidneys literally atrophy and necrotize inside him?

That would seem pretty dangerous and criminal to me...

In fact, I've never heard of a homeopathic treatment equivalent to dialysis, or one that even comes close to treating renal failure of any sort.

Also, how is this any different than a mother getting fined for not putting their child in a car seat or for using drugs during pregnancy? Both of those endanger the child and are punishable, so why shouldn't denial of treatment go along with these as well?

Mariella

[edit on 7/3/2006 by bsl4doc]

Some of you just dont get it. Sorry. I am not here trying to belittle anyone, but i do have an observation.

1. The government does not have the right, to put the child in protective custody simply because the mother is seeking alternative health. According to the post someone posted, this affliction runs in the family and the family wanted her to look for alternative ways to cure the child.

2. The child was not in imminent danger- He could have been 2 days down the road, but hell- so are all of us if you think about it.

3. How do we know, being the seemingly good parent she appears to be, that she wouldnt have gone back to the Alopathic (regular) doctors within a day or so?
Many people now seek Alopathy and Homeopathy- a combination of the two sometimes works very well.

4. Who the hell are we to tell this mother what to do? Going as far as accusing her of kidnapping? Calling the police? Like i said at least five times before, she is not accused of being a bad mother. This is nothing more than dictating what the citizens of America MUST do- Dictatorship combined with the NWO. A touch of Orwellian practice as well.

5. We deserve what we get nowadays. You agree, that people are no longer able to take care of their young. I'm very glad that i had kids long ago and they're still MINE and this kind of thinking wasnt around when they were little.

6. Good luck to your Orwellian way of life. You asked for it, you are going to have it.

I dont know how else to explain it. Most parents KNOW when they have to stop looking elsewhere and do the right thing to save their kids life. They dont need the government to step in and take control.



Live your life as you wish. Too bad its affecting me too. :shk:

Originally posted by dgtempe


Some of you just dont get it. Sorry. I am not here trying to belittle anyone, but i do have an observation.

1. The government does not have the right, to put the child in protective custody simply because the mother is seeking alternative health. According to the post someone posted, this affliction runs in the family and the family wanted her to look for alternative ways to cure the child.

Oh, so genetic disease are exempt from possibly life threatening conditions?

2. The child was not in imminent danger- He could have been 2 days down the road, but hell- so are all of us if you think about it.

Bad comparison backed up with bad logic, sorry. This child had a MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better chance of going into full renal failure without dialysis in two days than I have of being hit by lightening tomorrow. The child had a pre-existing condition. Why is that so hard to see?

3. How do we know, being the seemingly good parent she appears to be, that she wouldnt have gone back to the Alopathic (regular) doctors within a day or so?
Many people now seek Alopathy and Homeopathy- a combination of the two sometimes works very well.

The "alopathic" (it's actually allopathic) doctor had no way of knowing that, and had to react to save the child's life. Sure, I think the Amber alert, which may or may not have occured, was a bit overboard, but I think the doctor was right in calling CPS. Your assumption would mean that just because someone doesn't check in with a probation officer doesn't mean that they won't at SOME point, so why not give them a week or two, right?

4. Who the hell are we to tell this mother what to do? Going as far as accusing her of kidnapping? Calling the police? Like i said at least five times before, she is not accused of being a bad mother. This is nothing more than dictating what the citizens of America MUST do- Dictatorship combined with the NWO. A touch of Orwellian practice as well.

We have just as much right to tell her not to medically endanger her child as we have the right to tell her to buckle her child up, drive the speed limit, not smoke marijuana while pregnant, etc.

Do you think we should just do away with all laws like this then? Let children ride in their parents laps while the drive? And let parents toke up during the pregnancy? Wow, I think I may prefer the supposed "NWO", honestly, as you so humourously call it.

6. Good luck to your Orwellian way of life. You asked for it, you are going to have it.

Can you explain what is Orwellian about keeping a parent from medically endangering their child? This has been an active policy all over the USA and Europe for quite some time. Perhaps you're just in a bad mood today and wanted to pick a fight?

I dont know how else to explain it. Most parents KNOW when they have to stop looking elsewhere and do the right thing to save their kids life. They dont need the government to step in and take control.

Apparently you haven't met most parents.

Live your life as you wish. Too bad its affecting me too. :shk:

It's called society, and you are experiencing the price you pay for all the conveniences it gives you. Tomorrow in World Civilzation 101....

Mariella

What i said is what i believe.

Sorry to have some gramatic errors, however not all of us are strictly working with one language.

Thanks.