Aviary's "Falcon" identified?

MT - you are confusing two different arguments:
1) What did Bishop say about what Moore and Doty said about Falcon?
2) Is Rick Doty Falcon?

So all I want is an agreement from you that in Project Beta, Bishop recounts the story as told to him, that Falcon is a distinct individual separate from Rick Doty - that is, that in Moore's story, Moore states he met with Doty and the man who he would later nickname Falcon, and that Falcon told Moore that Doty would be the main contact between Moore and Falcon.

Do you agree that that is the story as represented in Project Beta?

I don't particularly care if Doty was Falcon or not ('hair-splitting') - the fact is that Doty and Moore have both repeatedly stated that Falcon was not Doty. (Doty's appearance as "Falcon" in UFO Cover-Up Live notwithstanding - "Falcon" the UFOCUL character is not necessarily "Falcon" Bill Moore's contact.) Saying that Doty's a liar doesn't constitute proof that he was Bill Moore's "Falcon".


Obviously Bishop hasn't met Falcon (that's why he states he was trying to guess who Falcon was.) And obviously both Moore and Doty may be lying about Doty not being Falcon.

But you claimed that they did not say that. I'm only addressing the facts that they did claim that - not the truthfulness of that claim.



[edit on 5-7-2006 by Hidden Hand]

Originally posted by Hidden Hand
MT - you are confusing two different arguments:
1) What did Bishop say about what Moore and Doty said about Falcon?
2) Is Rick Doty Falcon?
[edit on 5-7-2006 by Hidden Hand]

You're really starting to confuse me. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. What Bishop said that Moore said that Doty said? Yeah.. we're not going to get far with that.

I'm interested in what I thought the point of this thread was -- the recent blog by Dan Smith that says that Doty isn't Falcon, but Hennessy is.

All these people are full of it, so I don't put a single grain of salt into anything said by Moore, Doty, or Dan Smith (if they have an aviary name, I don't believe that they say at face value).

As for what Bishop wrote in his book, I'd have to review it before I could agree or disagree with your (and parse what you wrote, as well).

I think this topic IS about whether Doty is Falcon or not, but I've seen people arguing that it's about attacking Mike J. for bringing this subject up (sorry Mike, if you're only trying spread the news). If Mike is legit in his purpose (and we have no reason to believe he's not), then what he said was that he wanted to discuss the blog.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm interested in discussing the similarities between what happened with Bill Moore and what happened with Serpo. Both of these things have Rick Doty in common.

By the way, if you don't care whether Rick Doty was Falcon, then why are you bothering?

MT - you said that Bishop/Project Beta did not say something that it clearly does say (well, at least it is both MJ's copy and my copy of the book).

Whether that claim contained in Beta is a lie or not is a completely different argument. It may be the argument that you want to have - I was just pointing you to the applicable part of Beta where the claim was in fact made.

Originally posted by Hidden Hand
MT - you said that Bishop/Project Beta did not say something that it clearly does say (well, at least it is both MJ's copy and my copy of the book).

could you quote what it is that was said that was wrong? I'm getting lost trying to follow this thread. Is it about the Doty isn't Falcon claim, or not?

Originally posted by Hidden Hand
MT - you said that Bishop/Project Beta did not say something that it clearly does say (well, at least it is both MJ's copy and my copy of the book).

Whether that claim contained in Beta is a lie or not is a completely different argument. It may be the argument that you want to have - I was just pointing you to the applicable part of Beta where the claim was in fact made.

I've looked through the thread and would like to know what I said about Bishop's book that's incorrect? I asked to know where it showed this "scene" that shows that Doty could not be Falcon. So far, all I've been able to find are bits where Bishop reports what Moore told him (that Doty wasn't Falcon) and similar stuff. If there's a part where Bishop states that Doty definitely isn't Falcon and he relies on his research to prove it, then tell me where to find it.

Actually, you needn't answer. I'm perfectly capable of reading what I wrote and seeing that you've mischaracterized what I wrote. Why? Why such resistance to the idea that some people can't buy-into this nonsense about Rick Doty not being Falcon? Solely because Rick tried to spread rumors that it wasn't true, just like he claimed that he wasn't part of Serpo?

Sorry, but I'll stick to my opinion. The whole story about Falcon being Hennessy is nothing more than more of Rick Doty and the "aviary" crew's nonsense.

MT

Further blog entries by Dan Smith can be read by scrolling further
down the page, linked here:

www.bestpossibleworld.com...

I think www.realityuncovered.com... has a fact page (linked to
a discussion of Webre?) that explains some of the initials in the blog
entries....like, CF=Cuttlefish=Ron Pandolfi.

I continue to be confused when taking peeks into this world.

I think I'm going to start my own intelligence agency. That way
I'll know who is on first base, etc.

The following is by no means to be construed as fact it is NOTHING MORE than an observation of the alleged historical evidence available on the internet and paraphrased testimony from Linda Moultin-Howe. It has always been my opinion that Rick Doty has been on the receiving end of LOTS of fantasy others have created about him hoping he would not deny it so as to lend indirect support their own alleged hoaxes and or stories, DVDs, books. It is also my observation he has obliged many of them...


The only military record I've seen on Rick Doty indicates he left the service as Food Service Technician and that was after being a "base detective" in the AF's MPs with zero mention of any AFOSI assignment. I certainly don't know if this version is correct but it's all that's available so until I see something else, like a 201 service record, it's all the alleged "FACT" we have to work with.

Mr. Doty is certainly under NO OBLIGATION to provide anybody with any records about his military career and seemingly has not to date. That's his right. It seems to me there are many people who have said many things about Mr. Doty that have no connection to reality.

It was all over the web that he is a Lawyer in New Mexico.

We know he is not a lawyer, has not passed the bar, is not qualified to sit for the bar in any of the 50 states (WHO started that rumor?) but he IS a Sergeant in New Mexico State Police which is completely in line with his military career (it's logical for a career Military Policeman to become a civilian Policeman is it not?), an E-6, Air Force Sergeant, assigned to Air Force "Base Police" before ending up in Food Service.

Many stories abound that he was busted to Food Service after hoaxing Linda Howe. What's the evidence about that? It also seems to me that the Linda Howe story was the beginning of the "AFOSI" connection and some cock and bull story that AFOSI ordered him to hoax Linda Howe (WHO started that rumor?). WHY would AFOSI order ANYONE to hoax Linda Howe?

If they had ordered it, it seems they would have let Linda make her deal with HBO or whoever it was, and get the hoax out to the world via TV, rather than the handful of people who heard about it, else why do it?

Instead the Air Force allegedly disciplined Mr. Doty for hoaxing her under the guise of official business when he had no role in AFOSI business because he was, in reality, an "AFMP Base Detective". The story goes they sent him to the kitchen for it.

So wrapping all this up, there is no evidence Mr. Doty was ever in the AFOSI, the only evidence points to his being a Policeman, which he is to this day. The whole "AFOSI affair" seems to start at the hoaxing of Linda Howe, is it not safe to venture that maybe that's all it was, all of it, a HOAX?

The history and the present day certainly seem to support this. That being said WHY is a police sergeant in the NM State Police whose only claim to to UFOlogy is hoaxing Linda Howe even considered to be in ANY group aviary or otherwise?

That's the part I've never understood. It always seems "other people" are saying lots of things about Rick Doty, never Rick Doty saying them himself. Rick Doty is under no obligation to confirm or deny any of them.

It seems to me that somebody writes something about him, many others repeat it and it becomes "legend". Then someone prints it as fact and the whole story goes haywire and blows up to something like this...

I really think Rick Doty got implanted into the UFO "insiders" by doing nothing more than hoaxing Lind Howe on his own for whatever reasons he had to do it.

S...

Springer, I recommend you read Jerome Clark's UFO Book. It has a great section about the whole Doty Affair. Doty has stated that he was AFOSI.

www.ufomind.com...

That Doty was AFOSI and involved in a disinformation scheme is not in question amongst the vast majority of researchers.

As to why he played with Linda Howe, I can explain that one better. Remember, when speaking about Doty, one of the core aspects of Doty's games was Bennewitz. Bennewitz, who was a physicst, had lots of eletronic toys to listen in on and monitor all the assorted weirdness at Kirtland. Bennewitz believed he was seeing aliens and proof of diabolical alien activity, including horrible mutilations on cattle and humans. Linda Howe was interested in doing further research into cattle mutilations, and was very interested in Bennewitz. She was getting ready to do a film project with HBO, and part of her film would be interviews with Bennewitz, detailing his surveilance of Kirtland and how he interpreted the data he got. This would in turn be broadcast all over the place.

Whats wrong with this picture that would certainly make the government pretty paranoid, paranoid enough to actually get involved? Its the fact that:

1. Paul Bennewitz, a civilian, is sucessfully monitoring all sorts of radio and electronic activity at a very sensitive installation that was likely to be testing out some highly classified toys.

2. Linda Howe, who was a fan of Bennewitz, was going to do a documentary, part of which was going to show just how Bennewitz had picked upon all this "alien and UFO activity" and broadcast it nationwide, and thus, worldwide. The show could be seen by anyone, Including, gasp.............The Russians.

3. Hence, allowing Linda Howe to broadcast such a thing would basically inform the Russians that not only was it easy as pie for a civilian to monitor a secret base, but the fact that the civillian was picking up strange signals would give them ideas on where and how to spy.

Hence, the need to sever any ties Howe had with HBO. It wasnt the nonsense about alien invasions and stuff that Bennewitz was spewing that worried the gov. It was his teqniques and success at picking up something they would prefer people not really know about.

Springer: interesting stuff there to follow up on. Skadi's summary report
seems pretty accurate based on what I've read on this (for a couple of decades
now).

Bottom line: we don't really need these "insiders" (and former "insiders")
to enhance our understanding of the UFO mystery. In fact, they seem to offer
us a world of delirium and delusion. The story about all this is just an interesting,
and to some degree useful, sociological and psychological lesson.

Should be new ground rules, in listening to any new so called whistleblowers,
leakers, insiders, etc: they have to be straight up in their stories, their backgrounds legitimately/truthfully documented, and their stories further corroborated from other sources. Otherwise, the sop on our part should be
to hold up a hand and state: "tell it to the hand."

Originally posted by MikeJamieson

Should be new ground rules, in listening to any new so called whistleblowers,
leakers, insiders, etc: they have to be straight up in their stories, their backgrounds legitimately/truthfully documented, and their stories further corroborated from other sources. Otherwise, the sop on our part should be
to hold up a hand and state: "tell it to the hand."

I agree 100%, Mike! But I think those rules have already taken effect. People are taking a new look at Doty's claims anew, judging from the digging that people are doing into his supposed law degree, the constant stream of lies that Bob Collins has been telling, whether or not Doty actually finished his career as a cook like his military service records state, etc.

What's also interesting is that Kit Green is emerging as the story-teller-in-chief. Perhaps Rick is telling the truth when he says that he didn't write all the bennewitz/serpo nonsense. Maybe that was Kit Green's work? I've started following this and been intrigued at how Kit seems to be engineering all of this stuff from "behind the scenes". Pretty cool. The spook behind the spooks.

Also, if anyone has been reading the OM forum, maybe they can help look into whether Kit Green is Greatwaller. That's the only answer that makes sense to me -- not Jaime Shandera (although I think that was a pretty good guess). My sense is that Kit created the Greatwaller persona with carefully crafted "facts" that point to other people, like Jaime, to deflect attention from him. That would seem to be logical, given that Kit's a former CIA analyst.

Hey! Maybe we're all wrong and Falcon is Kit Green? Serpo "anonymous" is Kit Green? Greatwaller is Kit Green?

Funny how when you look into this stuff now that Dr. Green's involvement in Serpo was been shown, he seems to be hovering around all these old stories. Plus, he's apparently quite good buddies with Rick Doty.

Kit Green? Are you the whistleblower? If anyone has his email address, let me know, I'm sure he'd be happy to answer if I wrote and asked him.

I'll U2U his email address to you!

If you do hear from him - you have to report 100% of what you learn right back here, ok?