silent submarine

www.defencetalk.com...

5 points:
1) the article mentions that the submarine has advanced stealth technolgy. Is this sound stealth or visual stealth or what?
2)if it isnt sound stealth what use is it?
3) does anyone have anymore infomation on this type of submarine?
4) is the us keeping the sub for an extra year because it is planning on building a similar class sub or is it just looking for things to intergrate into its next generation subs?
5) is this sub louder or quieter than the us's newest ssn the virginia class texas (SSN 775) www.defencetalk.com... which has incidently just been delivered to the us navy followings it last set of sea trials?

justin

This is an AIP Diesel sub. Probably one of the quietest subs in the world. The USN is keeping it around because we don't have any diesel subs to train with. Diesels are the biggest threat from places like Iran and North Korea and other countries with small navies. The USN doesn't use them because they have limitations on the amount of fuel they can carry and other factors.

what about the stealth and aip system? can any of that be intergrated into a future submarine?

justin

AIP will ONLY work on a diesel submarine. Nuke subs are already ALMOST as quiet as they can be.

what about the stealth that the article mentions could that be incoperated into new us subs? or is that just a way of bigging up the swedish sub without realy knowing anything about it?

justin

I think the stealth they're talking about is just the fact that the AIP is ultra quiet and amazingly hard to detect. That's why they brought it over.

okay cheers zaphod

one last question for know. are ssk's quieter than ssn's? in general and the quietest of each type.

justin

SSKs are generally quieter, but their operational area is a lot more limited than an SSN.

While I wont go into details there are plans in the works to make the SSNs even quieter.

As designed currently they are pretty close to as quiet as possible. One of the posters was correct in this view. There are however some radical changes made possible with new advancing technologys and potentials which should take SSNs to the next threshold in performance.

Some of the posters are correct in that the big draw of Nuclear boats is their endurance ..verses diesel or AIP. No doubt that AIP is quiet...On the other hand dont think that a nuclear boat skipper does not know how to run on minimum settings for weeks at a time..to get the opponent to commit to a error. This buisness is much more involved underway than that of which most of us can comprehend.

ONe of the problems with any country/nation .. concerning technology is the overconfidence in this technology. The crews and skippers need to still be able to do it the olde fashioned way if the technology collapses on them. This is one very excellent reason for training against a boat like the Gotland.
Nuclear skippers and crews need to be versatile and flexable in order to learn the operation of a boat in a envelope where they may not be able to play to their inherent strengths of thier nuclear type boat.
Did not our pilots early in WW2 of necessity learn this hard won lesson flying against the Japanese Zeros and the Messerschmitts with second class aircraft?
The performance envelope of a nuclear boat may be at a disadvantage when operating against conventional boats ..on certain missions. I believe this is excellent training for our sailors..and long overdue.

Same thing with the "Top Gun " schools..our guys had gotten over confident and dependent on technology/missles....same concept. Top gun helped fill this void in our viewpoint and training. Long ....long overdue!!!

Thank goodness someone in the US Navy hasnt fully gotten their heads permanently stuck up thier political behinds with all this technology. Halelujah!!!
We need to also know how to do it the hard way if necessary...dont ever forget where you come from ..dont get above your raisings.

No doubt with September 11, 2001 that many of you understand that we as a nation..the nation of the United States... get overconfident from time to time in our greatness and technology and get our ...."Behinds " handed to us as was done on that infamous day.

Once again ..thank goodness someone in the US Navy understands this about technology

Thanks,
Orangetom

orangetom1999
I had not looked at it that way but it makes sence. The question remains if they will learn anything from the experience. Gotland is not a "OPFORs" program, but the more dissimilar combat training against more diverse foes always breeds better skippers. Remains to be seen if this is a token guesture of the beginning of exhange programmes?

I've already made a thread about this submarine.

U.S. Navy Is Hunting For a Swedish Submarine

Maybe you'll find some more info in that thread?

Hellmut ..very intresting article on the boat the Gotland. Thank you.
As to how they eat. I will replay this story I witnessed when one 688 class boat was ready to be delivered by this yard to the Navy. What was so unusual about this boat was the load out of food they were putting on her. I had never seen this part of provisioning to this extent done in a shipyard. They began loading food...and more food and more food...and continued. They loaded refregerated stores, Frozen stores. and then continued on with canned goods. They loaded canned goods in the passageways...and in some compartments then loaded a fitted piece of one half inch plywood on top of the canned goods then more canned goods ...and another layer of plywood. The crew told me they would literally have to eat their way out of this load of goods.
I had heard these types of storys from olde diesel boat crews with whom I had the privelege of speaking..but here I was seeing it with my own eyes.
With this stack of provisions on the decks it made it very uncomfortable to move about with a heavy tool bag all bent over to navigate these passageways.

What I presumed ..perhapsed incorrectly..was that this boat was putting to sea from the yard and had on it a more experienced seasoned crew than had many boats leaving the yards...also that this boat was deemed more ready for sea ...from the yard than previous boats ..fewer items...malfunctions.
Anyway Hellmut ..it was one of those unusual things you remember...because it was so unusual..it stands out ..even today..years later...
I have no doubt that when the Gotland puts to sea..she is in the same condition regarding provisions...and spares. Every nook and cranny in which something can be stashed and stored..is stashed and stored.
Submarines have never been known for thier luxury five star
accomodations...even nuclear boats. And I dont think they ever will be...not military submarines.



Psteel.
Yes I agree...I pray that out sub skippers will get something out of this and learn not to get to cocky about thier nuclear boats. Diversity in training I also believe breeds better skippers.

It is not the same thing per se..but I think you will get the idea..
It is extreamly frustrating to me to go somewhere to make purchase and for some reason the electricity goes out or the computer network crashs and the cashiers dont know what to do. They too, come to a screeching halt. They do not know how to do a manual overide..they have become dependent on technology.

I dispise cutting grass..one of the greatest aids to me in cutting grass is a technological invention called a Sony Walkman. Makes the experience so much more tolerable. But I can assure you I can still cut grass without one. I am not yet that dependent on this technology.

In shipbuilding ..one of the side skills I have taught myself is how to sharpen a drill bit on a bench grinder..by hand. On the weekends ..overtime..often most of the tool rooms are closed. If you need certain drill bits...they are difficult to acquire. This is why on weekdays when you know that job will be working..on Thursday or Friday..you stock up on drill bits. Failing this ..I have learned to self sharpen them on a bench grinder. Took me awhile to get the hang of it but I can do it now. You know Psteel I was ready to buy one of those gadgets on TV for sharpening drill bits until I learned to do a manual overide. I see those commercials now and chuckle to myself.
Often times the better shops are locked up..where best bench grinders are located for sharpening drill bits..especially on the midnight/graveyard shift. I have also taught myself to pick locks..comes in handy in these situations.

Manual Overides.

You up your skills a notch if need be. I Learned most of this from the olde timers and then started practicing it myself. Thank goodness for these oldetimers. I think of them often when I have to manual overide.

Dont misunderstand me ..Psteel..these new machines are wonderful ..they take alot of the olde manual labor intensive work out of a job..but if they go down/crash or malfunction...be ready to manual overide..the hard way if you must. I am not against technology..just be ready to do it the hard way if need be.

Thank you Gentlemen for your posts,
Orangetom

How about the Germans new sub the type 212A which has a hydrogen fuel cell propulsion system for running completely silent

en.wikipedia.org...

Does the USN have anything like that in the fleet or at least plans to develop one?



[edit on 28-6-2006 by warpboost]

The US Navy does not have anything like it nor does the US Navy plan on developing an AIP submarine.

Well, maybe... you see, if they don't reduce the costs of the Virginia, it is possible the US submarine shipbuilding industry will get extra compensation from Congress to build some AIP submarines, with a contract to Taiwan though, not for the US Navy.

And if those submarines turn out as good as other AIP submarines worldwide, it is possible the US Navy would buy a few on each coast for something like an aggressor squadron, but that possibility is very remote since funding such a program would require an act of god basically to happen.

For the most part, it is extreamly unlikely the US Navy would ever use AIP.

THe US Navy nor the US Government is in any position to lower the costs of anything. Especially Submarines.

There has never in recorded history been falling prices in a unbacked money...never..

Inflation and rising prices have always soared or risen until the money is worthless and the government then falls. A new Government then takes over usually with the same or worse problems than the previous government.

The attempt of the Federal Reserve to increase the intrest rates is a weak ham handed attempt to control the money supply. This is not possible when you have a mechanism in place where the government can constantly borrow for their programs..whether social programs or war programs. They will create/borrow more and more money to chase fewer and fewer production goods until the money is worthless and people stop doing what they are doing..or they take a loss if they dont. THe Federal government has mechanisms in place to borrow unlimited...unlimlited...like ...forever. This is what you are never told by your President, Senators, or Congressmen.
The government can outspend the public in every arena...every single arena.by borrowing the moneys into existance.

This is difficult to imagine but it is exactly what is happening. This affects the price of submarines too...conventional or nuclear.

THe correct name for inflation is "depreciation." The loss in purchasing power of the money supply or the dollar.

You know this because you dont have anymore house than you did last year yet it is worth more in tax assessment. This is because the citys must have more and more weaker dollars in tax revenue to maintain what they had last year. They are just not telling you that this is what is happening. They dont dare.
YOu are looking at a economic system in decline. It is just that no one dares to mention it. It would be political suicide to speak of it for what it really is.

Thanks,
Orangetom

www.jinsa.org...


here you go silent submarine. its a publication i read to see a world view from another side of the cube so to say.

Read the article and you will see that these types of submarines are feared to be falling into the hands of rouge states and terror nations. Saying that, twice this type of submarine has beaten the los angeles subs in underwater exercises - so i guess the Gotland is just to hone skills and equipment for the US navy.

with cost politics is always an issue. I remember back in the late 1970s there was the contract to replace the M-60 tank with the M-1. As a competition the M-60 was upgraded as a back up option incase the Abrams failed...not as odd as it sounds since its two predicessors had failed [XM-803 and MBT-70]. We all thought...no problem all the front line M-60 will get the upgrade while they await the Abrams replacement...which looked like it would take another 5 years or more.The upgrade included addon armor , improved ammo , FCS and option for automotive overhaul etc.

NO chance, M-60 Mod was rejected without further discussion. Why ? because if Congress got wind of the M-60 with mod , being 'good enough', Abrams would be passed over...since they had painted the Abrams as the minimum needed for the 1980s , it would have undermined years of effort. It was either money for Abrams or M-60 mod; not both....in the mean time they would have to hope and pray there would be no war.

Meanwhile there allies the Germans upgraded their old Leopard 1 tanks with addon armor, improved ammo & FCS etc, while awaiting their LEOPARD -2 replacement which happened before the USA replacement did. So not only did they end up with better tanks before the USA, but their reserve tanks were also overhauled in the process.

[edit on 30-6-2006 by psteel]