trees and grass and all that stuff

you know, you'd do well to treat people with a bit more respect. I never said i knew everything. Isnt that the reason people ask questions???

So if everything didnt happen by accident....then how, in your opinion, DID it happen?

Pointing out a misconception isn't being disrespectfull imo.

To answer your question. I don't know. No one's know's as of yet. There are ton's of theories flying about with varying degree's of evidence for each, but non come close to answering that question. More time, observations and experimentation and information is needed before any one person on this planet can even claim to have that answer.

I don't know.

then what does? (create deserts and greenery, i mean)

Deserts, climate. How many tropical rainforests that receive 200 inches of rain per year do you see in a desert?

Greenery, such as tree's, grasses, and other plants would fall under evolution.

really?....thats fascinating....can you provide any links for that or further explanation at least about what has been created?

Sure, mind you it's nothing greatly complex.

news.bbc.co.uk...

www.pbs.org...

There's a few links here and there on google. We've also found some organic material floating freely in space. Sugars, amino acids, ethyl. etc.

but isnt that the whole basis of your argument?....that universe explodes....chemicals fly around, and left to their own devices, create everything we know today?

Those are three seperate theories. Big bang, we know it happened, just not how. HOW is the theory, not if it happened, just how. Ambiogenesis is one theory of many on how life first arose. "Left to their own devices" I would assume your meaning evolution. The theory being HOW does evolution take place, not IF, just HOW.

hence me asking questions on here. Isnt that a way to learn about stuff?

I suppose in a way it could be. I'm more of a go find it myself kinda guy.

on the contrary, i havent actually put forward ANY of my beliefs. I merely asked a question. I am not an expert on evolution nor do i claim to know everything my religion says about it.

Directly, no. Indirectly, yes. Atleast it came off as such.

So again, my question....has science been able to produce anything (anything at all) that we find in nature....through the means by which you and others beleive stuff came into existence in the first place?

We've created the basic building blocks of life, simple and in some cases complex organic molecules. We've created synthetic viruses. We've witnessed and experimented with evolution in the lab as well as in the wild. Have we created a proto-human life creature? No. We don't currently have all the needed information nor answer's to the questions that need answering to even begin to start doing thing's like that. We're not make-believe gods, we can't just produce something for the ammusment of anyone who demands such thing's from science.

Let me make my position clear. I am a muslim.

Before you throw a hissy fit, not trying to be mean or rude, but research where the muslim faith come's from. When it firsty appeared, the history behind it. Behind any religion for that matter. Number one reason I don't believe in any diety is through learning.

nd whatever Proton thinks about google being the "be all and end all" of learning....its not....

I'm sorry if you think that I think google is the 'end all' of learning. I agree it's not. But thank "god" that it's only a search engine that allows you to find website's that are more knowledgable then a lowly search engine.

[edit on 12-6-2006 by Prot0n]

Alright, geek...

Let me ask you something. How do you think everything came to be? Any specific process? Is this process currently unknown to us at the level our science is at? Will science ever be able to account for this process?

The order that things evolved and the order of creationism in the Bible follow pretty closely to one another. I am a Christian. I beleive in both creationism and evolution though. I beleive that God gave things a little push along; that evolution was caused by God.

Which god? There's hundreds of different gods worshipped through out history. Most older then current "what's hip" to worship gods today. So which god(s) do you think gave evolution a kickstart?

I do believe that evolution took place, I just don't see how it could happen by itself.

It's called abiogenesis. Life CAN and WILL appear from organic elements if the conditions are right. Experiments were made to verify this and simple organic elements started to agglomerate and form bigger,more complex molecules.

The first living beings, were in fact not alive, they were molecules, who had the ability to replicate themsevles (over time each replicator became in competition and mutations would make one replicator more succesful at replicating than another [for example some "made" a protective shell , the first viruses])

Please note that there "replicators" were not alive, nor had they a will to evolve, just as one's DNA is not a living material nor has it got intentions.

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk

Are you implying just because one believes in God that some one is dumb? And FYI not all creationist believe that the earth was created 6000 years ago, I do believe that evolution took place, I just don't see how it could happen by itself.


[edit on 11-6-2006 by Mr Mxyztplk]

welp i belive that we were created. creating something is obviously pretty easy, all one would have to have is dna. and i belive the one who created MAN 6000 years ago had some dna and simply created us. i did say created (intellegent)MAN 6000 years ago. the earth and space has been here probably millions of years.....and i also belive that after the creation, evolution took place over thousands of years and this is where we are today. just because one belives that a higher intellegence created us does not mean one doesnt belive in an evolution of some sort. i almost belive in a devolution because the very first man(plural) was a complete and totlal genius. probably using the majority of his brain....ah but the old serpent.......

Originally posted by Prot0n
Which god? There's hundreds of different gods worshipped through out history. Most older then current "what's hip" to worship gods today. So which god(s) do you think gave evolution a kickstart?

our creator. the only one. of course there are hundreds of gods worshipped through history. this is part of the lie that was given to mankind, the birthplace of this lie....babylon. the sun god is definatly in all religions...you remember this in sun_matrix's thread. wasnt you in there at one time? its gotten realy good lately. defintaly a fun thread no doubt.



www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well, we're hitting a little snag there. Modern man is alot older then 6,000 years. The planet itself is roughly 4.6 billion years. Human civilization is roughly 12-6,000 years. The most note worthy civilization's being within the 7-6,000 year range. When we first developed writing and were able to keep records, write legends and myths and record religous beliefs.

Yes, I've been in Sun's thread before. Gotta give him credit for being a persistant little bugger. It's a shame though that he still has issues with personal opinion's not being fact's. I'm afraid this is a concept he will never understand nor come to terms with.

You say that it was a lie given to mankind, by whom? The catholic created satan? You gotta remember, alot of what Sun spews as "facts: are from a reletivly recent religous belief, one that never would have become as popular as it is today had certain event's and key people converting had never taken place. From my experience, those who have faith in any of todays dieties don't even bother researching where those belief's come from. They're to stuck up with their own faith that it's true.

I swear, the next person who says all other religions are a "lie" and spew "personal proof" that their religion is the only true religion, is gunna get a smack upside the head with their holy book. How many religion's do we need to hear this same exact god damned message from before it clicks in people's arrogant little I need to belong to something bigger then me, that they are ALL a "lie". A rich part of human human history used by the "elite" few to control the masses and provide answer's for those seeking them. God damn sheep.

Originally posted by Funkydung

Originally posted by Prot0n
Which god? There's hundreds of different gods worshipped through out history. Most older then current "what's hip" to worship gods today. So which god(s) do you think gave evolution a kickstart?

our creator. the only one. of course there are hundreds of gods worshipped through history. this is part of the lie that was given to mankind, the birthplace of this lie....babylon. the sun god is definatly in all religions...you remember this in sun_matrix's thread. wasnt you in there at one time? its gotten realy good lately. defintaly a fun thread no doubt.



www.abovetopsecret.com...

Wow.

If it's so easy, perhaps you can enlighten me on this process. And, well, Prot0n beat me to it with your claim that everyone else is wrong but you and your Christian cronies.

Talking snakes...rofl.

Originally posted by Prot0n
Well, we're hitting a little snag there. Modern man is alot older then 6,000 years. The planet itself is roughly 4.6 billion years. Human civilization is roughly 12-6,000 years. The most note worthy civilization's being within the 7-6,000 year range. When we first developed writing and were able to keep records, write legends and myths and record religous beliefs.

like i said earlier (intellegent) man is around 6000-7000 years old. anything older than that is just a dumb prototype living in caves. 6-7 thousand years ago is when it all came together.

Yes, I've been in Sun's thread before. Gotta give him credit for being a persistant little bugger. It's a shame though that he still has issues with personal opinion's not being fact's. I'm afraid this is a concept he will never understand nor come to terms with.

i have yet seen anyone disprove him. i myself have done the research and it is all fact that he gives. the connection to everything we know and babylon is unbeliveable.

You say that it was a lie given to mankind, by whom? The catholic created satan? You gotta remember, alot of what Sun spews as "facts: are from a reletivly recent religous belief, one that never would have become as popular as it is today had certain event's and key people converting had never taken place. From my experience, those who have faith in any of todays dieties don't even bother researching where those belief's come from. They're to stuck up with their own faith that it's true.

the nephilim. the catholic church is lucifers church and his false christianity. and it has spread over the globe. not only does he use obvious religions like muslim or just plain out satanism, he uses christianity that is tainted to control. christ told us of this. your right people who have faith in todays dieties have no clue. laziness and without knowledge.

i posted this on suns thread....

www.abovetopsecret.com...


....iraq is the site of the ancient city of babylon where nimrod, the sun god ruled. these false religions is the lie... sun_matrix explains the sun worship that was created and has spread from that city...and can be found in ALL religions of the world today. this is the lie. this is why iraq is in the situation it is now. because this was the birth place of it all. pretty wild huh. i think it is. pretty freggin amazing.

this is a very good read on him and his city
www.ldolphin.org...

External Source


After establishing his kingdom in the Tigris/Euphrates region Nimrod consolidated his power by establishing a state religion. He constructed a religion that included deification and worship of the emperor (himself), worship of Satan and his demons, and star-worship (corrupted from a pure antediluvian astronomy). A key unifying factor in his religion was to be an astronomical/astrological observatory built upon the pinnacle of a pyramid, or tower, at Babel. It has been suggested that Nimrod spent some time in Egypt before moving up to Mesopotamia and that while in Egypt he studied the Egyptian mystery religion perpetuated there from before the flood by the wife of Ham, whom tradition takes to be a descendant of Cain.

The building of this pyramid (or ziggurat) was interrupted by God himself in order to prevent Nimrod from extending his sway over all of the inhabited earth, according to Genesis. God halted the work by confusing their language so they could no longer cooperate easily with one another, nor indeed easily inhabit the same region together. As a consequence the human race was dispersed, and as men scattered they carried with them remnants of primeval revelation from God, and Satan/hero worship which Nimrod had invented as well. This system of muddled half-truths is known today to Bible scholars as the "Babylonian Mystery Religion." From a biblical point of view this religious system is described as the well-spring for all subsequent false religion and endless mythological systems


As a note on the Babylonian mystery religion, the original cult of the mother and child, Semiramis and Tammuz, became later Isis and Osiris, Venus and Adonis, the madonna and child in various cultures down to this day.

There is one common element to Nimrod/Marduk in all his manifestations and that is the symbol of the snake/serpent/dragon(reptilian?). Nimrod took the dragon as his personal emblem, so that from him spring various dragon myths and their special association with apocalyptic events. Strikingly the only favorable accounts of dragons are found among the Hamitic peoples of the world (like Nimrod) including the Ethiopians, Hittites, Chinese, Japanese and American Indian.

I swear, the next person who says all other religions are a "lie" and spew "personal proof" that their religion is the only true religion, is gunna get a smack upside the head with their holy book. How many religion's do we need to hear this same exact god damned message from before it clicks in people's arrogant little I need to belong to something bigger then me, that they are ALL a "lie". A rich part of human human history used by the "elite" few to control the masses and provide answer's for those seeking them. God damn sheep.

thats just it. its not all OTHER religions that is the lie, its ALL religions. and inside ALL of them you can find the sun god. and your right, the elite use this "religion" to control the majority of the people. people have no motivation to learn so they let these elite morons tell them what to belive.

sorry didnt mean to get off subject.







[edit on 14-6-2006 by Funkydung]

Originally posted by truthseeka

Originally posted by Funkydung

Originally posted by Prot0n
Which god? There's hundreds of different gods worshipped through out history. Most older then current "what's hip" to worship gods today. So which god(s) do you think gave evolution a kickstart?

our creator. the only one. of course there are hundreds of gods worshipped through history. this is part of the lie that was given to mankind, the birthplace of this lie....babylon. the sun god is definatly in all religions...you remember this in sun_matrix's thread. wasnt you in there at one time? its gotten realy good lately. defintaly a fun thread no doubt.



www.abovetopsecret.com...

Wow.

If it's so easy, perhaps you can enlighten me on this process. And, well, Prot0n beat me to it with your claim that everyone else is wrong but you and your Christian cronies.

Talking snakes...rofl.

do you even know what your talking about? and did i not include all religions? all means that would include christianity. as far as talking snakes that is funny.

[edit on 14-6-2006 by Funkydung]

This thread seems to be spiralling downwards past the third level of Dante's Hell.

Could we resume a respectful tone coupled with reasoned thoughts, please?

BTW...I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular here...just saying, is all...



[edit on 14-6-2006 by masqua]

like i said earlier (intellegent) man is around 6000-7000 years old. anything older than that is just a dumb prototype living in caves. 6-7 thousand years ago is when it all came together.

Dumb prototype's? Man, there's alot you don't know about pre-history. They were far from dumb. Those dumb prototypes created some of the greatest first true civilizations that lead to us modern people. We're the one's who are truely dumb. Look at what we've done to our planet and look at how prisitine our dumb prototypes kept it.

i have yet seen anyone disprove him. i myself have done the research and it is all fact that he gives. the connection to everything we know and babylon is unbeliveable.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I fail to see what you see.

thats just it. its not all OTHER religions that is the lie, its ALL religions. and inside ALL of them you can find the sun god. and your right, the elite use this "religion" to control the majority of the people. people have no motivation to learn so they let these elite morons tell them what to belive.

And where do you think the concept of 'god(s)' came from? Man made religions. Think about that one for a sec.

Originally posted by Prot0n

like i said earlier (intellegent) man is around 6000-7000 years old. anything older than that is just a dumb prototype living in caves. 6-7 thousand years ago is when it all came together.



Dumb prototype's? Man, there's alot you don't know about pre-history. They were far from dumb. Those dumb prototypes created some of the greatest first true civilizations that lead to us modern people. We're the one's who are truely dumb. Look at what we've done to our planet and look at how prisitine our dumb prototypes kept it.

can you give me some examples of these civilizations before 7000 years ago that didnt use rocks to hunt? if so then it couldnt have been that much longer.

anyway, look at our planet. i see it. i see the garden being destroyed. this place was made for us to live. there was never suppose to be the mass slaughter of one another. there was never suppse to be babies being sucked out of the mothers womb. there was never suppse to be the mass slaughter of our planets creatures or it nature, but we are all getting raped. jealousy in lucifers heart drives him to destroy this once pristine place.. that why i said this in my earlier post

i almost belive in a devolution because the very first man(plural) was a complete and totlal genius. probably using the majority of his brain....ah but the old serpent...

if you go back and look i said that the prototypes were the dumb cavedwellers and then adam(first of intellegent mankind, plural) those people had the true connection to our creator. but they got tricked and so the devolution started. and no i wasnt a talking snake. you have to have a little depth to you to understand the serpent. and i know you do proton.

i have yet seen anyone disprove him. i myself have done the research and it is all fact that he gives. the connection to everything we know and babylon is unbeliveable.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I fail to see what you see.

i look for the historical facts. i dont know how you can fail to see history. is history in our schools really just all made up?

thats just it. its not all OTHER religions that is the lie, its ALL religions. and inside ALL of them you can find the sun god. and your right, the elite use this "religion" to control the majority of the people. people have no motivation to learn so they let these elite morons tell them what to belive.

And where do you think the concept of 'god(s)' came from? Man made religions. Think about that one for a sec. [

where do i think the concept of "gods" come from? ive just explained it in the earlier post. from babylon. that was the birthplace of all of the religions. the plan worked perfectly. it has blinded billions thru history.








[edit on 14-6-2006 by Funkydung]

Originally posted by Prot0n
And where do you think the concept of 'god(s)' came from? Man made religions. Think about that one for a sec.

good question, and, at the risk of getting a bit off topic, I'd like to show what one of my favourite researchers says in that vein...

from The Mind in the cave by David Lewis-Williams (Thames & hudson)

p. 18

These questions are not just about ancient history. They take us to the heart of what it is to be human today. It is not simply that we are more intelligent than other creatures, that we are masters of complex technology, or even that we have complex language. These are glittering jewels in the crown of humanity with which we are all comfortable. On the contrary, the essence of being human is an uncomfortable duality of 'rational technology and 'irrational' belief. We are still a species in transition. The unknown person of (13,000 to 14,000 years ago) had the rational 'scientific' knowledge and skill to make a tallow lamp and also a set of beliefs that were imperative for his or her irrational underground journey (shamanism). That duality in human behaviour did not disappear at the end of the Stone Age. even in the twentieth century, people were 'rational' enough to travel to the moon and back and yet still 'irrational' enough to believe in supernatural entities and forces that transcend, and in effect make nonsense of, all the laws of physics on which their moon journey depended. Does the human brain construct spaceships and the human mind fashion unseen forces and spirits? What is the difference between brain and mind? What is intelligence and what is human consciousness?

Lewis-Williams goes into detail on the beginnings of religions and, if you are interested in how it all started, I highly recommend going to the library and reading this book.

To encapsulate his enlightening and lengthy study, it is that it all began with the sensory deprivation of deep dark caves where the shaman went to experience 'visions'. The visions which their 'mind' showed them were then interpreted as messages from the 'underworld'. What's fascinating is that the visions were pretty well the same for all shaman.

Key search words are 'entoptics', 'phosphenes' and 'therianthropes' if you're interested in following this up.