Military Aircraft Scrambled : Washington Airspace Violated

Just been on BBC news 24. Apparently a cessna has violated restricted airspace over DC. Military aircraft have been scrambled.

More as it comes in.

They've just said the plane has been escorted to 'an airbase in Maryland' by F-16's.

Pilot's compass stuck, maybe? At least the authorities were up there without delay today!

This doesnt really surprise me, there has been a no fly zone over D.C. since 9/11.

I thought maybe this was another russian aircraft entering american airspace....

thanks for posting though....

Well let us know if theres anymore on it, And thans for getting it up so quick!

ill take a peek around to see if i can find a link or 2

Just out of curiousity, anyone know what the stall speed of an F-16 is?

[edit on 5-6-2006 by Xenophobe]

No more reports on this as far as I cn see. I guess the pilot just wandered off the beaten air lane.

Originally posted by Xenophobe
Just out of curiousity, anyone know what the stall speed of an F-16 is?

[edit on 5-6-2006 by Xenophobe]

I suppose they F16's must just fly in circles around the target. Must make the pilots very dizzy, not to mention the buffeting from the wake vortices the cessna would experience.

[edit on 6-6-2006 by KhieuSamphan]

I live around DC it was kinda cool to see F-16's flying all over... I mean they were flying as low as helicopters. Two buddies of mine that live in Gaithersburg saw them all flying with the plan in formation taking it to Andrews I think. Interesting...

The restricted airspace of the Baltimore/DC area is HUGE, it's not hard to stray somewhere you shouldn't.

The other week I saw over my house a F-22 and F-15 and what looked like a F-4 Phantom AND a small piston engine plane that to my eye look like a P-51. It was the weekend of the Andrews air show, but I’m a good 60 miles north of Andrews AFB.

What they were doing over my house, I do not know.

Question to any private pilots here:

If you accidently flew into a restricted airspace such as Washington D.C., and had to be escorted down by fighter jets, how would you feel?

Originally posted by Xenophobe
Just out of curiousity, anyone know what the stall speed of an F-16 is?

[edit on 5-6-2006 by Xenophobe]

I did some digging, but couldn't find an exact speed for stall.
Like any airplane, weight, flaps down or up make a difference.

I'm gonna guess that stall is around 115 mph and approach speed 130-140 mph.

Not sure about the jets, but civilian light aircraft usually have an approach speed of 1.3 times the stall speed.

The Cessna 150 has an approach speed of 55-65 mph.
Stall occurs at 50 mph.

However, the Cessna can be flown at an indicated airspeed of 35 mph.
It's in the slow flight regime where that happens and the airspeed indicator won't be accurate due to the pitot tube is at a fairly high angle of attack as is the plane.
40 mph is probably a reasonable assumption of minimum slow speed due to the inaccuracy factor.

Full throttle for sure and it takes a little dancing on the rudder pedals to keep things stable, but the little Cessna's will fly pretty slow.

Average cruise for the Cessna 150 is about 100 mph.

From what I did read about the F16, you can fly them at a fairly high angle of attack with power on, but you risk a chance of entering what's called a "Deep Stall."
Difficult to get out of, but there is training to avoid this as well as recover from it.

In any event, no small wonder the F16's are circling the slow running Cessna.
Probably with gear and flaps down for added drag and the engine spun up a bit.

Cessna 150 and 152's are probably the most common trainer aircraft out there although there are quite a few Piper low wing trainers.

I find it interesting that it's almost always a Cessna that's reported when there is an airspace violation problem.

Probably due to their great numbers, but the media adds to the problem as well.

The local airport had a single engine gear up Bonanza make a belly landing a while back.
The paper called it a Cessna.

Thanks for the info Desert Dawg, those airspeeds are roundabout what I had in mind.

I would imagine that it takes quite a bit of concentration just to keep an F-16 "in the air" when flying an intercept/escort mission at such slow speeds and low altitutes.

Which begs the question: Why does the military rely on fighter jets in such a situation, why not something a bit more practical like an AH-64 Apache Longbow, or an OH-60 Black Hawk? Either one of these helicopters are more adept at low speed flight than the F-16, and they have the armament needed to "take out" a small aircraft if necessary.

I agree, the news sources aren't very reliable when it comes to aircraft identification, at least not initially. Turns out that the aircraft, initially identified as a "Cessna", was a Cessna 182. But, I'd like to mention, that Cessna also makes a really nice business jet called the Cessna Citation.

Originally posted by Xenophobe
Question to any private pilots here:

If you accidently flew into a restricted airspace such as Washington D.C., and had to be escorted down by fighter jets, how would you feel?

Pretty stupid. There are specific procedures for entering/egressing the ADIZ around DC. Every pilot is legally supposed to know them. There are also specific procedures to be used if you ARE intercepted. Any pilot with half a brain that knows they are going to be flying in the vicinity of the DC ADIZ would request 'flight following' from ATC. That would allow ATC to monitor the flight and alert the pilot if his flightpath was taking him/her into restricted space. We do make mistakes and can get disoriented but the vast majority of cases that I've read are simply pilots who are not adequately preparing their flights. It's inexcusable.

But then the whole idea of the ADIZ is based on politics and stupidity. It's a senseless waste of resources, unfairly restricts a large number of DC area airports and pilots, makes travel into the DC area unnecessarily scary and difficult and provides no actual increased security. Basically, if you can't do something effective do something big.



[edit on 6-6-2006 by jtma508]

Just to post link -

CNN - 5 June '06

U.S. fighter jets Monday intercepted a small plane that had breached restricted airspace around Washington, D.C., but it did not appear to pose a security threat to the U.S. capital area.

The Cessna 182 was flying from Philadelphia to Charlottesville, Virginia, before two F-16 fighters escorted it to an airport in Maryland, said Sean Kelly, the spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command, which monitors North American airspace.

Despite having happened hundreds of times before in cases like this one, isn't it funny how no US fighter jets were scrambled on September 11, 2001?

Yet some people still claim there was no conspiracy/complicity that day.
.

Originally posted by Gools
Despite having happened hundreds of times before in cases like this one, isn't it funny how no US fighter jets were scrambled on September 11, 2001?

Yet some people still claim there was no conspiracy/complicity that day.

.

Good point Gools, maybe an email is in order to NAADC asking them what was so special about todays plane compared to a few huge airliners?

I'm confident they'd give us a straight answer

Actualy i might give them a ring tomorrow and ask them myself....

www.norad.mil...

Any bets on the words used when they tell me to go forth and multiply?

CX.

[edit on 6/6/06 by CX]

Originally posted by Xenophobe
Thanks for the info Desert Dawg, those airspeeds are roundabout what I had in mind.

I would imagine that it takes quite a bit of concentration just to keep an F-16 "in the air" when flying an intercept/escort mission at such slow speeds and low altitutes.

Which begs the question: Why does the military rely on fighter jets in such a situation, why not something a bit more practical like an AH-64 Apache Longbow, or an OH-60 Black Hawk? Either one of these helicopters are more adept at low speed flight than the F-16, and they have the armament needed to "take out" a small aircraft if necessary.

I agree, the news sources aren't very reliable when it comes to aircraft identification, at least not initially. Turns out that the aircraft, initially identified as a "Cessna", was a Cessna 182. But, I'd like to mention, that Cessna also makes a really nice business jet called the Cessna Citation.

Fighter jets are used due to their quick interception capabilities.
Granted, a helicopter would be ideal if it was in the area, but the F16's can do the job.
Not too difficult to fly in a circle around the offending aircraft, roll in and shoot if necessary.
And once the heli arrives, the jets can turn for home.


F16 drivers are pretty busy under "normal" conditions.
They have a lot of distractions with multiple radios and other electronics running.
Along with the on board radar and optic devices, and staying in contact with military and civilian agencies.

To strike off on a bit of a tangent, F4 drivers in Vietnam had so many electronic goodies going on that things could be very distracting.
I've read that once the carrier pilots went "feet dry" (crossing the coastline headed inland) they would turn off some of the warning equipment.
Not stated, but I would guess the leader would turn off one gizmo and monitor the other and the wingman would do the opposite.
Gizmo's translated as missile launch warning devices and similar.

Surprisingly and maybe not so surprising, some of the best pilot material comes from educated people who have spent a lot of time with Playstation games and the like.
They seem to get a handle on multiple distractions pretty fast.

I've only spent a little time in 182's.
They're faster than the trainers, but still somewhat slow.
If I remember right their cruise speeds are 120-130 mph.

What makes it for any airplane is - most times - the "as the crow flies" bit.
It's about an 80 mile trip via air over the Colorado River in N/W Arizona where I live to a small town.
Driving requires traveling in excess of 300 miles.




As far as your other question about how would I feel if I transgressed into restricted air space - stupid.

And if I was escorted to an airport to meet the authorities - really stupid and in trouble.

And when the bullets start ripping through the airplane - one of those life defining, this ain't good, Uh Oh moments....