Knife amnesty begins in Britain....again.

Another knife amnesty begins today in Britain, days after a young boy was stabbed to death outside his school in London.

A national knife amnesty begins across the country today - the first of it's kind in 10 years. People will be able to hand in all bladed instruments without fear of reprisal until June 30th.

Source: news.bbc.co.uk...

Whilst i agree this is a worthy cause, i can't help thinking it's a lost cause too. No disrespect meant there to anyone who has lost friends or relatives to knife attacks, i realise that even one knife taken off the streets could mean one less attack. However, i think they should start by taking knives out of the shops that really are'nt neccessary. As far as i'm concerned, your typical combat knife is'nt needed by anyone but members of the forces, oh yeah sorry....and those who've just watched Rambo and think they NEED to buy one! Throwing knives can readily be brought from camping shops here in the UK, what the hell for? Last time i looked, the only time you needed a throwing knife was if you were an assassin or a circus entertainer! This is an area which could be dramatically improved.
As for the amnesty itself, how many criminals are honestly going to be handing in thier knives? As it says in the news item, only those suspected of being used in crimes will be investigated so if you'd stabbed someone with a knife, would you hand it in knowing it will be shipped straight to phorensics

I think the government will once again run this amnesty, publish the figures showing that thousands of knives have been handed in, therefor making the streets a safer place and fix future crime statistics to support this. What they won't show is that most of these knives will come from law abiding citizens who have probably never used a knife in anger, and have had these weapons sitting in thier loft but are scared of getting into trouble in the future so they've handed them in.

Lets do an independant survey of the criminal community and see how many of them have handed thier knives in as it was the right thing to do!

CX.

[edit on 24/5/06 by CX]

I've never understood taking in peoples weapons, criminals wont hand them in so it basically means that its then easier for them to mug people, kill them because they now have no weapons to fight back....ah well..

What kind of insanity is this?! You don't turn in weapons to make people safer! They are for protection?!

Criminals who use them to harm sure aren't going to turn in their weapons- and when you are unarmed, how are you supposed to defend yourself if you needed to?!

Our friends across the pond worry me.

Both of you are correct. The criminal won't comply.

Any Government that takes weapons from it's citizens is a corrupt Government.

The individual is responsible for his/her self defence, not government.

Roper

OK UK administration needs a reality check...

One can stab a man to death with: Pencil, fork, broken bottle, nail... list goes on and on and on... are they going to collect every pointy item from the people?

I carry a pocket knife around every time, i've never even considered using it for anything, but as a tool... so should i give it in too?

As for the "Who needs a combat knife?" no one, but they are no deadlier than your stake knife... wiht both of them it's about the user...

Originally posted by northwolf

As for the "Who needs a combat knife?" no one, but they are no deadlier than your stake knife... wiht both of them it's about the user...

Ok fair one. I just think more could be done to de-glam the knives available, especially as kids today will no doubt rather have a cool looking blade than the other option. Given the choice between a huge combat knife or mums potato peeler, not hard to imagine the choice made in respect of street cred is it.

CX.

Originally posted by northwolf
One can stab a man to death with: Pencil, fork, broken bottle, nail... list goes on and on and on... are they going to collect every pointy item from the people?

This is a good point. You have to ask yourself what would you perfer to be stabbed with; a pencil has no hilt for instance, being stabbed by a 5 inch blade is always preferable to a 12 inch one.

Find out from the police how effective this scheme is, how many knives are handed in? A hundred knives handed in is better than none.

Something that is related to this is the idea (not sure if they have done it yet) of banning large kitchen knives. Not steak or vegetable knives, just those huge ones that your supposed to slaughter mammoths with. 'They' asked a bunch of chefs if any of those big kitchen set knives are actually needed for preparing food, they said, "Nah, not really..."

Edit to add article

Doctors' kitchen knives ban call

A&E doctors are calling for a ban on long pointed kitchen knives to reduce deaths from stabbing...[snip]

They consulted 10 top chefs from around the UK, and found such knives have little practical value in the kitchen.

None of the chefs felt such knives were essential, since the point of a short blade was just as useful when a sharp end was needed.

The researchers said a short pointed knife may cause a substantial superficial wound if used in an assault - but is unlikely to penetrate to inner organs.

[edit on 24/5/06 by Dae]

Criminals will always be armed, their profession requires it.

While I deeply regret the death of this student, I have to say that this knife amnesty is a total joke. The only people who are going to be disarmed are the types of people who would never in a million years dream of stabbing somebody, because they are the only ones who would even think of turning their knives in. Like others said, no criminal is going to hand in a knife to authorities.

One can stab a man to death with: Pencil, fork, broken bottle, nail... list goes on and on and on... are they going to collect every pointy item from the people?

Exactly so. As I've mentioned many times, because it seems to come into relevance so often on ATS, I've worked in security, and I've seen a lot of stuff used as weapons, or heard stories of things being used as weapons. Even if you could take every criminal's knife away, they would still have weapons. They'd just use guns, or bats, or Uzis, or steel toe boots; you name it. The only reason this amnesty even exists (in my opinion) is as a means of trying to show the family and friends of the victim that they are trying to do something to prevent this kind of tragedy in the future. In reality, of course, this amnesty will do jack squat to prevent crime.

I wish I knew why governments were so freaking stupid...

Originally posted by CX
I think the government will once again run this amnesty, publish the figures showing that thousands of knives have been handed in, therefor making the streets a safer place and fix future crime statistics to support this. What they won't show is that most of these knives will come from law abiding citizens who have probably never used a knife in anger, and have had these weapons sitting in thier loft but are scared of getting into trouble in the future so they've handed them in.

That's a very good observation, and I think you have pretty much just hit the nail smack bang on the head there.

Originally posted by CX
Lets do an independant survey of the criminal community and see how many of them have handed thier knives in as it was the right thing to do!

Well, although I'm not a criminal, I can say for certain that I will not be handing any of mine in. I have recently taken up leaning some Bushcraft skills, you see. I had come to the conclusion that people in the city were becoming to dependent on the 'system', which then got me thinking how much panic would ensue if the system were to ever fail. What would everyone do for food, and water? That type of thing. So after watching some Ray Mears, I'm often out a lot, with a heavy duty Machete, several Hunting Knives, and a razor sharp Scandinavian Forest Axe. Fair enough, I'm often away from the city, but there are still lots of people around.

Obviously this amnesty will not effect practising Bushcrafters much at the moment, but like you have pointed out, CX, if the Government stitch this to make themselves look good and such, then will the knife problem not escalate further down the line? If so, what measures can we see in the future? Total knife bans except for in the home and places of work, and perhaps designated camping areas? A knife is an essential survival tool, as well as a danger in the wrong hands.








[edit on 24-5-2006 by Communication_Monster]

Maybe it's because im American, but this is the most retarded thing i have ever heard of in my life. Knife amnesty?? taking away knives of the people because some kid got stabbed??? Here in America we have guns everywhere and when someones shot we dont attempt to take away guns, liberals might and now that i see this.. i realize that if the left ever had there way to take our guns away what would be next? they start taking away our kitchen utenciles?!?!?

Taking away the Brits kitchen utenciles are not going to make criminals any more friendly. A criminal could simply use tape and a piece of scrap metal or even plastic, glass whatever and creat a home made knife.. then what will you do when hes breaking into your house? resort to your spoon?? stupid law period.

OHH and they should take away blunt objects as well, seeing as one could use a baseball bat of sort and bash ones head in no??? take away the bats, the rocks, the clubs, even tree branches! they should confine their subjects into padded rooms with safty glass windows! that way no one will get hurt

then what will you do when hes breaking into your house? resort to your spoon?? stupid law period.

Its my understanding that in GB you ought not do anything.
If you defend yourself you become the criminal, or something to that effect.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Maybe it's because im American, but this is the most retarded thing i have ever heard of in my life. Knife amnesty?? taking away knives of the people because some kid got stabbed??? Here in America we have guns everywhere and when someones shot we dont attempt to take away guns, liberals might and now that i see this.. i realize that if the left ever had there way to take our guns away what would be next? they start taking away our kitchen utenciles?!?!?

Well, they've already taken away pretty much everything else. Only thing left is our knives. They'll probably come for the bats, soon...

"This device is used in an American sport, Peasent. You have no reason to have it, give it me here"

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Taking away the Brits kitchen utenciles are not going to make criminals any more friendly. A criminal could simply use tape and a piece of scrap metal or even plastic, glass whatever and creat a home made knife.. then what will you do when hes breaking into your house? resort to your spoon??

stupid law period.

I totally agree! If you want the real shocker though, get this; if a criminal breaks into your house and attacks you, in this country, you go to jail or get into a lot of trouble if you defend yourself. You could get stabbed by an attacker in your own home, and if you somehow manage to kill him or stop him from attacking you further, by whapping an axe right between his eyes, or something, you will get in more trouble than the burglar! For protecting yourself and your family!



[edit on 24-5-2006 by Communication_Monster]

I hope they take a lesson from the United States.


After guns and knifes, the third most popular murder weapon in the USA is the fireplace poker, moving up the list and even replacing the screwdriver as the weapon of choice. I think hammers are a distant 5th. I think the old reliable "li'l Slugger" baseball bat has been a consisten favorite for over a hundred years.

I know, I know, you want sources. Just a second, and I'll find some for you . . .


.

Originally posted by Communication_Monster
You could get stabbed by an attacker in your own home, and if you somehow manage to kill him or stop him from attacking you further, by whapping an axe right between his eyes, or something, you will get in more trouble than the burglar! For protecting yourself and your family!

Well officialy under the new laws, you are supposed to be able to protect your property if someone breaks in, however for some reason i have very little faith in the British justice system.

Does the law protect me? What is 'reasonable force'?
Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in selfdefence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.

Do I have to wait to be attacked?
No, not if you are in your own home and in fear for yourself or others. In those circumstances the law does not require you to wait to be attacked before using defensive force yourself.

Source: www.cps.gov.uk...

CX.

I remember hearing something about that a while back, when an MP or someone got broken into and had to fight off an intruder. I never did hear the conclusion of what happened, I think I was abroad at the time. Thanks for finding that though, and for pointing it out, as I wasn't actually aware of those guidelines. Doing some further reading into this though, it seems these aren't even new laws, apparently they are the same old laws, but worded differently so as to be more clear.

www.cravendc.gov.uk...
In response to public concern about the right of householders to defend themselves against intruders or burglars in the home, the Home Office considered whether there needed to be a change in the law on self defence. The Home Secretary consulted the CPS and ACPO and concluded that the law was sound and in favour of the householder. He concluded, however, that the law needed to be better explained. The leaflet attached to this news item explains the law of self defence and describes how the police and the CPS would deal with situations where a householder has injured or killed an intruder.

Hmmmm, so what about the cases where people have got in trouble then? Tony Martin is the only one I can remember off hand.





[edit on 24-5-2006 by Communication_Monster]

They're starting with knives in Europe. Of course, guns will be next in America.

The thought process is, if I do the right thing...then I will be rewarded.

If you don't have guns...then you are easier to rule, and to stop a possible revolution.

If King George of England in the Revolutionary War had done this, his response would have been an overwhelming "NO" from all of the people, and especially the Founding Fathers.

Originally posted by Communication_Monster
I remember hearing something about that a while back, when an MP or someone got broken into and had to fight off an intruder. I never did hear the conclusion of what happened, I think I was abroad at the time.
Hmmmm, so what about the cases where people have got in trouble then? Tony Martin is the only one I can remember off hand.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Yes Tony Martin's case attracted a lot of interest here did'nt it. I think you are right about the laws being old too, they just had a lot of press coverage after this bankers death as a reminder to the public as so many people were still confused.

CX.

I don't think that anyone expects the law to protect them. I mean, harsh sentencing is great, don't get me wrong. But it's too late when you're dead or busted up for life, right? And now this knife amnesty/ban is comprimising just about the only method they have left of actively defending themselves. Great. Well, just a reminder to our Commonwealth homeboys: Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

DE