Joesph Smith and the Masonic Mormans

reply to post by tgidkp


How can I explain it to you, his family was masonic father ..brother,him included, his friends were masons.
IF I were to join a faith and see any wrong doing like a single lie I would drop out of it the moment I discovered it.

Originally posted by pepsi78
IF I were to join a faith and see any wrong doing like a single lie I would drop out of it the moment I discovered it.

Yet, I seem to recall you are a Christian? Funny.

Originally posted by pepsi78
The articles you just gave from the source I have provided first just proves that mormonism spang from masonry, it does not prove anything else.

How do you figure? Because there were public accusations that Smith used "Masonic work" to produce the Book of Mormon?

Where I'm getting is that no matter how you put it mormonism is just a copy of masonic filosofy.

Hardly.

source
With the publication of the Book of Mormon, commentators on both sides weighed in. Local anti-Masonic “vigilance group” member Martin Harris declared the book to be “the anti-Masonic Bible.” Newspaper columnists argued whether the majority of Mormon converts were “strong Masons” or “anti-Masons.” The anti-Masonic label would stick to Joseph Smith throughout his life, leading historians to question how a Palmyra “anti-Mason” could go on to promote Freemasonry on a unimaginably grand scale in Nauvoo, Illinois.

The articles provided by you only state that mormonism and masonry are the same.

No, they don't. They back up exactly what I have been saying all along.

All the material posted by you states that
[...]
It's just that, as it is writen, the mormon faith developed from a masonic family.

Source
There is a certain irony in early Mormon Masonic membership that may not be obvious to people who have never read the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon consistently condemns secret societies and oath-taking, sign-making "secret combinations."

[...]

So it would seem that "Latter-Day Saints," according to the warnings of their own scriptures, should never have joined the Masons, a society with oaths of secrecy, secret signs, and secret words.
In the early 1830s, the Mormons projected an anti-Masonic image. On the 15th of March, 1831, Painesville Ohio's Geauga Gazette quoted Book of Mormon "witness" Martin Harris as saying the Book of Mormon is an "Anti-Masonick Bible." Exactly eleven years later, on the 15th of March, 1842, Joseph Smith officially joined the Masons.

(emphasis mine)

You are trying to distort facts by saying that there is no afiliation betwen the 2 groups, so what? 2 groups do not have to be afiliates to be the same.

No they don't have to be affiliated. They have to be the same, which they are not.

If smith copied masonry and itegrated it in his new faith I see no problem at all, It's just easy for me to expose stuff since masonry and mormonism are so alike

Are you a Mormon? No?
Are you a Mason? No?
, indeed.

I'll get to the similarities later, I want to make it nice, you know to stick out....I just have to arange my work...
There are tons.

Oh, I can't wait... while you're at it:

Source
The perception that early Mormonism was an anti-Masonic religious movement is one of the most curious aspect of the question of Mormonism & Freemasonry. How and why Mormonism went from the sentiment express by Martin Harris and others (see below) to the wholesale embrace of Freemasonry at Nauvoo in the 1840's is a question that has yet to be adequately addressed.

[...]

WILLIAM W. PHELPS- Phelps became a Master Mason in Cortland, NY. He later became disenchanted with Masonry during the Anti-Masonic frenzy of the Morgan Affair and its aftermath. Phelps renounced Freemasonry and became active in the Anti-Masonic political party in the late 1820's, editing two Anti-Masonic newspapers and seeking a nomination for Lieutenant Governor on the Anti-Masonic ticket before he joined the Mormon church. He was the editor of the Evening & Morning Star, the Mormon newspaper in Independence, MO and wrote the classic Mormon hymn "The Spirit of God." I have so far been unable to find anything concerning Phelps' reaction to the Mormons' embrace of Freemasonry in the 1840's.

So you see, at first, the Book of Mormon was held to be anti-Masonic - so, if that is the case, why would people think he drew upon "Masonic work" to write it?

It simply makes no sense.

Yet, I seem to recall you are a Christian? Funny.

I don't consider the mormon faith cristian, if that is what you are getting at.
Or are you saing critianity it's self is a lie.

How do you figure? Because there were public accusations that Smith used "Masonic work" to produce the Book of Mormon?

Not only that but the similarity in dogma, simbolism, rituals, everything is just as in masonry.

source
With the publication of the Book of Mormon, commentators on both sides weighed in. Local anti-Masonic “vigilance group” member Martin Harris declared the book to be “the anti-Masonic Bible.

Was he wearing a white robe with the compas and the sqare at the time

” Newspaper columnists argued whether the majority of Mormon converts were “strong Masons” or “anti-Masons.” The anti-Masonic label would stick to Joseph Smith throughout his life, leading historians to question how a Palmyra “anti-Mason” could go on to promote Freemasonry on a unimaginably grand scale in Nauvoo, Illinois.

Then why were so many mormons from the LDS temple involved in masonry, why did they rebuild the temple? why are there masonic simbols all over the temple..it does not add up.

There is a certain irony in early Mormon Masonic membership that may not be obvious to people who have never read the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon consistently condemns secret societies and oath-taking, sign-making "secret combinations."

Yea while the grand masters and arhitects were masons and came from a masonic background, few know this.
Condemining with masonic simbols as a picture on a wall.

So it would seem that "Latter-Day Saints," according to the warnings of their own scriptures, should never have joined the Masons, a society with oaths of secrecy, secret signs, and secret words.

Well that is what they do in the temple, same as masons, they take oaths and ingage in rutuals






[edit on 23-11-2007 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
He was a mason, a dedicated mason, he even took the compas & sqare and alot of other masonic simbols and integrated them in the mormon curch, aprons, oaths, so stop working your way out of this one.


[edit on 19-11-2007 by pepsi78]

Yep. The fabled 'magic underwear' that Mormons wear are covered in masonic symbols.

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by tgidkp

 

How can I explain it to you, his family was masonic father ..brother,him included, his friends were masons.
IF I were to join a faith and see any wrong doing like a single lie I would drop out of it the moment I discovered it.

That simply isn't true. People remain true to their religion well after being exposed to malpractices and un-truths. They simply weigh their own spiritual progression against the criticism by others.

It is funny to me how many "experts" there are about the Mormon faith because they have read a book or watch a TV show. Were these books and shows produced by the Mormons or some "objective" group? Let me ask you "experts" a question. Have you actually ever read the Book of Mormon or the Pearl of Great Price? Better yet... have you read the Bible? I'll even go one easier, have you ever been to a Mormon church meeting?

Anyway...

First to NWO: What Pepsi said about leaving a religion because of an untruth does hold true to Mormons. We are STRONGLY encourage by the leaders of our church to find the truth for ourselves. I don't know one member of the church that would not leave if they discovered a lie in the doctrine of the church. Notice how I say doctrine, not people. People are people. We are human. Even the VAST majority of the people who do leave the church do it because of some insult they have received and not because of the doctrine. The ones that do leave due to doctrine are the ones that didn't take the time study the "problem". To understand the doctrine.

Next... There isn't a Mormon alive that REALLY knows their religion that would deny that there are ties to mason rituals. TGIDKP hit it right on the head... which one really came first? Where did the masons get THEIR rituals? You have to remember what the Mormons claim... that we are a RESTORED religion. Not a REFORMED religion. TGIDKP your father is a wise man. What he said to you is dead on. It is the same technic that Satan used on Eve. Tell the truth, but change one little thing.

Pepsi: You seem to be stuck on the fact because there are "mason" symbols on the Mormon Temples that it makes them mason buildings? I'll use the pictures that Dragon put up. Since when did the mason have exclusive rights to the handshake? Is that not the universal gesture of fellowship? And the sun symbol... my, my... I don't think that I have ever seen anybody but masons use that one.

Also, where dose this underlaying hatered of Mormons come from anyway? I've been called alot of things but I've need been called demonic. I mean, it has been years since I sacraficed a child or virgin. True, my horns have to be filed off on a regular basies, but other than that... demonic??? Get a grip dude. At least the ones that say we are not Chirstians have a reason to say it. Even if I don't understand why they say it.

I am a Mormon. I am not ashamed of it. Mormonism takes ALL good things unto itself. It dosen't matter where the good comes from, it belongs in Mormonism. Mormonism is all about progressing to a higher place and gathering as much knowlegde as humanly possible. It dosen't matter where the knowlegde comes from. Mason, Pagan, Jew, Muslim, Science, etc. It dose not matter. If it is true and good, we fold it into the rest. It is as simple as that.

First to NWO: What Pepsi said about leaving a religion because of an untruth does hold true to Mormons. We are STRONGLY encourage by the leaders of our church to find the truth for ourselves.

If you do that it's no longer mormon, it's universal so what is the point staying anymore.
You just debunked your self.

I don't know one member of the church that would not leave if they discovered a lie in the doctrine of the church. Notice how I say doctrine, not people.

1
Since the founder of your faith was insisting that there are people living on the moon as if that was not enough he aslo said people living on the sun, and guess what ...people believed him..It's like I would come and say that the world is sqare because I'm sure of it, I had a vision, then later when they invent the space rocket they found out I was delirios.
What credibility do I hole then in building my own religion?

2
No one talks about jesus being in america or in a new world from the 12 closest to him, in fact besides your prophet no one from the bible, historian, arihologist yuo name it ..no one but absolutly no one except your prophet sustains this that jesus lived in what today is united states.

If you wish to beilive a nut job that says satan is the brother of jesus and that black people are dark skined because god punisshed them because they remained neutral while the battle in heaven took place ....if you want to beilive this be my guest, I could care less.

Next... There isn't a Mormon alive that REALLY knows their religion that would deny that there are ties to mason rituals. TGIDKP hit it right on the head... which one really came first? Where did the masons get THEIR rituals?

Masonry is older than mormonism, you copied from them, you simply have to look at the fact that smith's father was a mason, his brother was a mason way before the mormon faith took place.
You just have to accept that mormonism sprang out of masonry, even if the 2 factions don't get along this days.

Pepsi: You seem to be stuck on the fact because there are "mason" symbols on the Mormon Temples that it makes them mason buildings? I'll use the pictures that Dragon put up. Since when did the mason have exclusive rights to the handshake?

Since george washington was around and maybe earlyer

And the sun symbol... my, my... I don't think that I have ever seen anybody but masons use that one.

That simbol is related to egypt and no masons were not the only ones to use it.

Also, where dose this underlaying hatered of Mormons come from anyway? I've been called alot of things but I've need been called demonic.

It's just my personal opinion that mormonism is not related to cristianity.

I mean, it has been years since I sacraficed a child or virgin. True, my
horns have to be filed off on a regular basies, but other than that... demonic??? Get a grip dude. At least the ones that say we are not Chirstians have a reason to say it. Even if I don't understand why they say it.

Because no one says it like you do, the things sustained in your faith are coming from only one man, there is no mention in the bible of what you speak of.
So the story go's .....cristianity the mormon version, So god who was only human at the begining and grew up to god hood on a distant planet called koleb, now had 2 sons, satan and jesus, his 2 sons were arguing over planet earth who should rule over earth, jesus came and said that man should have free will, of course satan oposed becaise he wanted to rule over planed earth, so god decided that jesus will rule over earth so a war broke up on the distant planet, satan was made what he is today among with the others that stood by him, and the others who chose to be neutral, god turned them in to darked skined people,(black people are the descendants of those people in mormon dogma)

In my personal opinion it has nothing to do with cristianity, it's just my personal opinion.

everyday on
I am a Mormon. I am not ashamed of it. Mormonism takes ALL good things unto itself. It dosen't matter where the good comes from, it belongs in Mormonism.

Sure I'll just take your word for it
Just like masons say, we are the best of the best of the best of the best..we only do good things, we are nice people.

I never trust people that smile


[edit on 30-11-2007 by pepsi78]

Another self-prclaimed expert. Pepsi you are the epitome of what I was talking about. You deserve no reply but that.

Ummm yeah. Joseph Smith also had an aclohol problem, smoked tobacco, and was bi-polar, so...

Originally posted by pepsi78
I don't consider the mormon faith cristian, if that is what you are getting at.
Or are you saing critianity it's self is a lie.

I'm saying that if you think everything you are exposed to in your religion is infallible, incontrovertible truth, and you think the opposite of other religions, then you are the worst kind of fool.

Not only that but the similarity in dogma, simbolism, rituals, everything is just as in masonry.

Masonry has no dogma, strike one. Symbolism is less about the actual symbols, and more about the meanings people attribute to them. Strike two. The rituals? Only Mormons who go through the Endowment ceremony in the Temple would be exposed to it, and as I understand it those people are the minority.

In short: NO, "everything" is NOT "just as in Masonry."

Was he wearing a white robe with the compas and the sqare at the time

Oh, you're a funny guy! No, because the Endowment wasn't written yet, and at the time Joseph Smith himself was not a Mason. You knew this, you just wanted to be cheeky, so...

Then why were so many mormons from the LDS temple involved in masonry, why did they rebuild the temple? why are there masonic simbols all over the temple..it does not add up.

As I said, symbols are just pictures. It's the meanings people attribute to them that is important. And what's more, who said that you had to be able to add things up? As I see it, Neither Masonry NOR Mormonism is for you, so why do you care so much?

Yea while the grand masters and arhitects were masons and came from a masonic background, few know this.
Condemining with masonic simbols as a picture on a wall.

I have no idea what you just said, but you're special. That I do know.

Well that is what they do in the temple, same as masons, they take oaths and ingage in rutuals

So do lots of other people, but I don't see you blasting on them. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Rotary Club, Lion's Club, football teams, judges, lawyers, people who get married, people who hold public office, Christians, Jews, Muslims... this list could go on and on and on. All these people take "oaths" and "ingage" (sic) in rituals.

So what?

I'm saying that if you think everything you are exposed to in your religion is infallible, incontrovertible truth, and you think the opposite of other religions, then you are the worst kind of fool.

I'm not saying it from a religios point of view, my view is scientific and not my religion vs whatever, it's just my personal opinion.

Masonry has no dogma, strike one.

Yea sure there is a whole book on that.

Symbolism is less about the actual symbols, and more about the meanings people attribute to them.

Ohh yea ...the old reply... we just took the simbols and changed them to what we wanted them...to bad tho that almost all your simbols are imports from egypt..and too bad they still mean the same thing...sun piramids..compas and sqare also from egipt same meanings.

As I said, symbols are just pictures. It's the meanings people attribute to them that is important. And what's more, who said that you had to be able to add things up? As I see it, Neither Masonry NOR Mormonism is for you, so why do you care so much?

Almost all you simbols come from egipt and babilon, the simbols still hold the same meanings, you did not adopt them and then changed them did you you just like them for what they ment because you beilive what they mean.

...and what is this with smith was never a mason get real.

This is becoming just too easy...... I thougt you would bring real arguments to the table, this story sounds like a broken record

Square and compas.


The real meaning of the simbols hidden with a different meaning, new recruits up to 3th degree are told something else.

watch.pair.com...

Blue Lodge Masons are taught that the Square is to remind them that they must be "square" in their dealings with all men, i.e., to be honest. The

Compass, they are taught, is to teach them to "circumscribe their passions," i.e. to control their desires and to be temperate. The real meaning of these "great lights," however, is sexual. The Square represents the female (passive) generative principle, the earth, and the baser, sensual nature; and the Compass represents the male (active) generative principle, the sun/heavens, and the higher, spiritual nature. The Compass, arranged above the Square, symbolizes the (male) Sun, impregnating the passive (female) Earth with its life-producing rays. The true meanings, then are two-fold: the earthly (human) representations are of the man and his phallus, and the woman with her receptive cteis (vagina). The cosmic meaning is that of the active Sun (deity, the Sun-god) from above, imparting life into the passive Earth, (deity, the earth/fertility goddess) below and producing new life (2)


The Blue Lodge Mason is taught that the "G" in the Masonic symbol represents God. Later on, he is told that it also represents "deity." Later still, he is told that it represents "geometry." In reality, this letter represents the "generative principle," the Sun-god and, thus, the worshipped phallus, the male "generative principle…" In its position (along with the Square and Compass) on the east wall over the chair (throne) of the Worshipful Master, it is the representation of the Sun, thus of the Sun-god, Osiris. Its earthly meaning, then, is of the sacred phallus; its cosmic meaning is of the Sun, worshipped since antiquity by pagans while facing the East. (See c, below).

Mormonism is not really cristian, how can it be if such simbols are involved.

To axe man....how about some one takes a t-shirt with satan is god and then go's to curch and then he just tells the priest that he changed it's meaning and that it mean love because he changed it's meaning.

A key , if you change it's shape .. it won't open any dors you want, because the key has been changed, might as well throw it away because it's no good.

Simbols and their natural meaning are always represented by what they are, if you sit at the table with some one and he takes the fourk and bends it it's no longer usable is it, the loger he distorts it the more it becomes unusable, if he just leaves it as it is, it's a fourk.

Really your simbols mean what they truly are, this with let's play hide and seak with the recruits and low ranking masons is just pathetic.

reply to post by pepsi78


What's *really* pathetic is non-Masons sitting around inventing ridiculous meanings for Masonic symbols. Now it's my turn:

Pepsi's Bible is a symbol of Quaglack, the Alien Overlord that his church secretly worships. However, since Pepsi is low on the church totem pole, he doesn't know that yet and is being duped by stories about Moses and Abraham and Jesus, all of whom were really secret Quaglackians.

reply to post by Masonic Light



Hahaha... Quaglackians...

Too much.

Pepsi: I'll play. Give me a bit though.

This is almost funny. You do realize the uh, "source" you quoted from not only is clearly unbiased, but tells us that Babylon the Great, the city of sin in revelations, is actually referring to Catholics and/or Jews. Do you have any UNBIASED sources that say this stuff? Of course not...because unbiased academic sources don't have an agenda against masonry (they have other agendas).

It must again be pointed out that assigning meaning to symbols does not make your assignment correct. It just expresses your inner belief about what you want to find in the symbols. If you want to find something evil and diabolic in masonry - you shall find it, if you literally just start making stuff up. In much the same way I can look for evil and diabolic schemes in my carpet, watch:

The blue threads are a a symbol of the sky, which really is a symbol of the male reproductive principle. Thus, my carpet is a penis.

Originally posted by pepsi78
how about some one takes a t-shirt with satan is god and then go's to curch and then he just tells the priest that he changed it's meaning and that it mean love because he changed it's meaning.
...
Really your simbols mean what they truly are,

What's most interesting is the amount of sheer irony in your post. You cite a source that has no logic or reason and simply decrees what masonic symbols "really" mean. These same symbols have a meaning directly from their source, freemasons. Yet you then tell us that just because someone perverts the meaning doesn't at all actually change their meaning.

You realize THAT THIS IS **EXACTLY** what you just did? I would highly suggest you follow your own advice.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


how about I imagine there are people living on the moon
and atribute the sqare and compas to it


Simbols belong to their original creators, a simbol is created for a reason, some might take those simbols and say they mean something else to simply cover up it's meaning, just like picking a color let's say red, and then make everyone think it's blue.

I can say for sure for example that the square and compas is a simbol of anceint egipt, you can find it in the national museum of egipt, it's meaning is posted above in my previos statement , it's reason of creation is just that, it was created for a reason, so it would have a representation if you want to hide behind the wall go ahead.

Those simbols were taken and adopted by masons for their original meaning, any one who is dumb enough is going to beilive that masonry took the simbols to change them and give them another meaning, I would have to be an idiot to beilive that.

Symbols do not belong to anyone, as their meaning to groups as a whole remain up to the group that uses them. I do not argue that symbols can have different meanings - but to groups that use symbols, they have a particular and specific meaning. If they mean something to someone else - that's quite fine - but that someone else perceives them differently does not mean that they have only one meaning. Symbols mean different things to the people that use them. Masons have symbols, which only mean one thing to us - which we have described over and over. That you find other meanings doesn't mean that these symbols mean that to masons. It just means (1) you will interpret symbols to mean what you hope they mean and/or (2) you have an agenda.

There is nothing new under the canopy of heaven. Every symbol has been used by some group, in some culture, for something different - at any point in time. But groups that use symbols are not cognizant of the history of these symbols - nor do those histories matter - because the group has already defined the meaning of the symbol to mean something different. Anyone who is dumb enough to believe that the symbols of the fraternity are correctly defined by a wacko right-wing website that tell us the Jews are the city of sin in revelations would have to be an idiot (Just FYI - in making that statement I just copied your previous statement )

reply to post by LightinDarkness


That is totaly off the mark, if you want to reinvent something on and on go ahead, in fact I can say this is how some pull strings on this planet, you know they take something and distort it and turn it in something else, simbols do belong to the source, with out a source it's no longer a simbol,
if you do insist that a simbol does not belong to an unique identity then that is your bussines, but I can't be in acordance with you, so many people love new your that they made an insignia out of it.

There is nothing new under the canopy of heaven. Every symbol has been used by some group, in some culture

Because they chose it as a representation, the first person that implemented looked and chose it, I beilive when you chose something you look at what you chose

But groups that use symbols are not cognizant of the history of these symbols

Not true, the ones at the top are, how many do you think know the true meaning of the statue of liberty, they just think it represents the freedom of america, see here is the distortion, I wonder who have done this...do I need to mention it...

the group has already defined the meaning of the symbol to mean something different.

No, to make people beilive it means something else, so they would accept somethng, most people don't really know about the true meaning, hocus pocus...it's called manipulation, and this is done with intention because,

1 Most of the implemented masonic simbols if not all are religios simbols.
2 Most of them deal with egiptian gods and mithology.

So there is a very picky proccess, they are a sort and in to a category, if the simbols in cause do not hold their true meaning why not just pick them randomly, see it does not make sence

This whith we chose some simbols so we can change them is a fary tail, those simbols were chosen because of their meaning...but you know you can try at least to look artistic I don't mind

Originally posted by pepsi78
I'm not saying it from a religios point of view, my view is scientific and not my religion vs whatever, it's just my personal opinion.

Your view is scientific? Heheh that's the funniest thing I've read all day.

Masonry has no dogma, strike one.

Yea sure

there is a whole book on that.

OK, you got me. Masonry has a dogma. This kind: A principle or belief or a group of them: "The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present" (Abraham Lincoln).

Principles; philosophic tenets. Yes, Masonry has those. Not in a religious sense, but in a philosophical sense. I think we can all agree on that, so I stand (somewhat) corrected.

Ohh yea ...the old reply... we just took the simbols and changed them to what we wanted them...to bad tho that almost all your simbols are imports from egypt..and too bad they still mean the same thing...sun piramids..compas and sqare also from egipt same meanings.

Masons use the analogy of building in stone to teach lessons.

The greatst stone edifices the world has ever seen are in Egypt.

It stands to reason that there may be some overlap there, it isn't exactly a shocker.

Almost all you simbols come from egipt and babilon, the simbols still hold the same meanings, you did not adopt them and then changed them did you

you just like them for what they ment

because you beilive what they mean.

Correction: I believe IN the PRINCIPLES (remember that one?) that they REPRESENT to ME and all regular Masons.

...and what is this with smith was never a mason

get real.

I didn't say he never was, I said he wasn't at the time my previously referenced quote was taken.

This is becoming just too easy...... I thougt you would bring real arguments to the table, this story sounds like a broken record

I have yet to see a real argument from you in the first place, so you saying that really doesn't hurt my feelings. I doubt you would recognize a real argument if it slapped you in the face...

watch.pair.com...

I've heard the same thing before, and I'm sure that there are those out there who could sympathize with that explanation of the symbols. Sounds like something someone would try to attribute to Albert Pike or A.E.Waite, et al. However, as Masons use building in stone as an allegory for personal development, and the symbols in question are working tools of a stonemason, I'll take the explanation that fits that paradigm.

No doubt there are deeper meanings to these symbols, and I'm inclined to accept that perhaps half of what was posted in that website COULD be (not saying that it is) attributed to thos symbols by someone, somewhere.

Mormonism is not really cristian, how can it be if such simbols are involved.

Because to the Mormons there are (ostensibly) Christian concepts associated with those symbols.

To axe man....how about some one takes a t-shirt with satan is god and then go's to curch and then he just tells the priest that he changed it's meaning and that it mean love because he changed it's meaning.

Apples/oranges. "Satan" is a universally accepted symbol, within it's sphere of influence. It's not really open to interpretation unless you want to argue about corporeal vs. ethereal.

A key , if you change it's shape .. it won't open any dors you want, because the key has been changed, might as well throw it away because it's no good.

Again, apples/oranges. A key as a key is only a key. A key as a symbol could mean many things: An answer or solution; knowledge; a truth; a secret; a path to something... get where I'm going?

Simbols and their natural meaning are always represented by what they are, if you sit at the table with some one and he takes the fourk and bends it it's no longer usable is it, the loger he distorts it the more it becomes unusable, if he just leaves it as it is, it's a fourk.

What the fork are you talking about?

A fork as a fork is an object, not a symbol. As a symbol it could mean "this is a place to eat," or "get your forks here," or "I'm hungry and all I got is this damned fork, can you hook a brudda up?"

Really your simbols mean what they truly are, this with let's play hide and seak with the recruits and low ranking masons is just pathetic.

Less pathetic than people popping off at the mouth about things they don't understand, I'd wager.

1 Most of the implemented masonic simbols if not all are religios simbols.

Prove it.

2 Most of them deal with egiptian gods and mithology.

Prove it.


[edit on 12/5/07 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by pepsi78


I can say for sure for example that the square and compas is a simbol of anceint egipt, you can find it in the national museum of egipt,

Are you sure about that? I mean, can you provide some sort of documentation that the ancient Egyptians used the Masonic square and compass as symbols?

Quaglack bless you, my son.