Iran much closer than thought...

Originally posted by signs
The US nuked another country to end that other country's aggression and expansion. Iran on the other hand has stated its intention to wipe Israel off the map simply because it is there.

Iran never said that. It was mistranslated for propaganda value. The Iranian president was quoting 'The Great Imman' who said the Israeli Regime would not exist in the future.

He was calling for Regime Change.

Originally posted by signs
The US nuked another country to end that other country's aggression and expansion. Iran on the other hand has stated its intention to wipe Israel off the map simply because it is there.

Iran also hasn't initiated a conflict since the 1700s. The president called for the “regime” that ruled Israel to be wiped off the Middle East, but the “regime” was not translated. Its two different things really, and I do believe that both Israel and America have time and again called for Iran’s “regime” to be wiped off the map.


[edit on 23-5-2006 by Sep]

Also, if I remember the translation correctly, he never even said the word "map".

To give the complete background of the Iranian affair, because it is relevant:

1) Who overthrew the democratically elected gov't of Iran and installed a brutal puppet regime in its place in the 50s? The same country that's bitchin' about the lack of democracy and freedom now, the good ol' US of A.

2) Who installed that repressive regime in the 50s and divvied up that country's natural resources for their own profit? The same two countries that spearheaded the illegal invasion of Iraq, the US and Britain.

3) Who initiated the transfer of nuclear technology to Iran decades ago? The same country that talks about how Iran shouldn't have nuclear technology, the good ol' US of A.

4) Who's been doing business in Iran while it's supposed to be prohibited for US companies? The Veep's own Halliburton.

5) Who's in violation of the NPT? The good ol' US of A, for many grave actions.

6) Who hasn't even signed on to the NPT and refuses inspections whatsoever? The illegal settler state of Israel.

Seeing as how the US & Israel (and Britain, France and a few other western nations to a lesser extent) have been committing crimes against humanity for decades upon decades now, I, personally, and millions, if not billions of others, accurately view those countries as a "clear and present danger" that threatens our lives, and hardly Iran, which may develop a weapons program in a decade or so.

Finally,
"Obviously, we don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons and I don't know if they're developing them, but if they're not developing them, they're crazy." -- Martin van Creveld, Professor of Military History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

Originally posted by Malichai

Originally posted by signs
The US nuked another country to end that other country's aggression and expansion. Iran on the other hand has stated its intention to wipe Israel off the map simply because it is there.

Iran never said that. It was mistranslated for propaganda value. The Iranian president was quoting 'The Great Imman' who said the Israeli Regime would not exist in the future.

He was calling for Regime Change.

It is not regime change he wants, it is the destruction of Israel.

[edit on 23-5-2006 by signs]

Originally posted by signs

Originally posted by Malichai

Originally posted by signs
The US nuked another country to end that other country's aggression and expansion. Iran on the other hand has stated its intention to wipe Israel off the map simply because it is there.

Iran never said that. It was mistranslated for propaganda value. The Iranian president was quoting 'The Great Imman' who said the Israeli Regime would not exist in the future.

He was calling for Regime Change.

It is not regime change he wants, it is the destruction of Israel.

[edit on 23-5-2006 by signs]

oops! please disregard the last post.

He was calling for Regime Change.

It is not regime change he wants, it is the destruction of Israel.


you dont listen very well do you signs? Aris stated several things proving not only that Iranian president was misquoted, but that the U.S. Britain, France ect. are the only countries that have commited acual crimes. provide some acual facts to back up the claim that Iran wants to destroy Israel like everyone else is backing up their claims.

on a different note, not to drag everyone off topic here but, I have some questions about The palestine-Israeli conflcit. acually more questions regarding Israel, my friends and are slipt in this issue and I would like to have some reliable information for our, very heated, debates. My friends are all the steriotypical gungho, hoorah, lets go blow em' up amercians.

if someone could describe for me the acual situation (bias aside please, I am looking for facts not propaganda) regarding the Jewish legitimacy in Israel. My friend had a speaker come to his church to say that they should support Israel (no bias I'm sure) and he claims that Britain just plain gave Israel to the jews and the Palestinians were in the wrong. I know this is not all there is to this or that this may not even be true at all but I have been unable to get a straight answer to this question : did Britain, due to political turmoil, hand over the Israel over to palestine or Israel?

if the question is too vauge I have this question: If the land was split between them somehow, who invaded who for the purpose of acertaining more land? I am guessing it will be the Israelis because its their "promise land".

I hope their are some resident experts on this subject.

I dont really know the details, but its my understanding that the palestinian land was pretty much stolen and given to the jews, this displaced thousands, if not more, palestinians to other mid-east countries. Sorry your american friends are so violent, trust me, not every american shares their views. But I know that I'd be pissed if my home and my land were taken from me and given away to some foreigners. This statement is a little off topic, but the media paints the iraqi insurgents as such horrible people...let me ask you, would you not be doing the same if some foreigners invaded and occupied your home? I know I would...

Originally posted by truthseeka
What the hell is that, Chop?

Please, PLEASE stop watching Fox News! When the hell did Iran nuke a country?

Such a fine example of the effect of the millions spent on propaganda in the US...

You said it, when the hell was the last time Iran nuked anyone? We are the only nation to use a nuclear weapon. Will someone tell me, I cant trust my own government to tell the truth about what kind of threat Iraq was, but I am supposed to trust Isreal?

Whatever happened to the Americans I grew up with? Someone needs to stop this mad dash to ww3!

[edit on 23-5-2006 by LoneGunMan]

Anything Fox News/CNN/MSNBC/ABC reports is propaganda BS, Iran is absolutely no threat at the moment. Bush is just trying to fool you people again and his family will keep fooling you until sometime in the next millennium when you somehow evolve above the pond scum level.

Everone (especially those in the USA) needs to take a step back and look at the big picture here. If this were Sweden we were talking about instead of Iran, there wouldn't be an issue. The fact is, Iran is a muslim nation, it borders Iraq, and the americans don't trust them, therefore, they want to get to them before they have the abilities to strike back, even if they have no intention of doing so.

How can anyone attack another nation on an 'if' and afterwards go "oh.. well see we were wrong, oops" I'm incredulous that after Iraq, ANYONE would trust the intelligence, media, and motivations of the USA and Israel, they have PROVEN to have blatantly lied to start a conflict, has Iran?

Once again I ask you, if this were somewhere like Sweden, or New Zealand, would there be a global threat of ww3 over it? no. Iran is muslim, and therefore is a threat to the world.

On the same note, another country who didn't even sign the NPT is India.. yet it didn't stop Bush from making a nuclear deal with them.. because he 'likes' them over other middle eastern/asian nations, and would rather trust them than others. It has nothing to do with laws and treaties.. and everything to do with who the USA 'likes'

In the unfathomable words of our esteemed PM John Howard "There are good non-participants and bad non-participants, India is more good non-participant than bad non-participant"

A little bit of splitting hairs there I think.

daedalas, dno117 is pretty much correct.

Having debated the Palestinian issue at length, I've done quite a bit of research and found UNISPAL's research and papers to be most informative and impartial. UNISPAL is the United Nations Information System on the Question of Palestine. If you google it, you will find their site and within it, "The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem" is a must read. It is very lengthy and detailed with many chapters, though, and I had made a summary for myself which I just started as a thread here for you and anyone else interested.

Also, one of several sites that provides excellent insight is Lawrence Of Cyberia's blog, which she updates fairly regularly. She's a former British intelligence officer, if I remember correctly, specializing in the Middle East and I've found her information, insight & analysis to be invaluable and unique.

[edit on 24/5/2006 by Aris]

As far as Ahmadinejad's comments are concerned, the facts are:

MEMRI provided the translation that western leaders are using.

MEMRI, the Middle East Media Research Institute, located in Washington, has within its officials notables such as Colonel Yigal Carmon, late of Israeli military intelligence and Meyrav Wurmser. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that MEMRI, as Pr Cole states, is selective and biased against the Arab press, it highlights pieces that cast Arabs, especially committed Muslims, in a negative light and it cherry-picks the vast Arab press for articles that make the Arabs look bad. This can be corroborated with many past examples and a breadth of analytical sources. If I remember correctly, MEMRI was spreading the BS about Saddam's plastic shredders for eg.

At any rate, MEMRI is hardly an impartial source I would go to for an Arabic translation.

A good analysis of what was said and what was translated can be found here, in this article from the Information Clearing House.

[edit on 24/5/2006 by Aris]

Originally posted by daedalas
oops! please disregard the last post.

He was calling for Regime Change.

It is not regime change he wants, it is the destruction of Israel.

you dont listen very well do you signs? Aris stated several things proving not only that Iranian president was misquoted, but that the U.S. Britain, France ect. are the only countries that have commited acual crimes. provide some acual facts to back up the claim that Iran wants to destroy Israel like everyone else is backing up their claims.

We disagree on this matter is all. I hear what is behind the words despite the way they are twisted or get attributed to the great 'Imman.' That was the guy in Cold Mountain, right?

[edit on 24-5-2006 by signs]

YAWH

Yet Another War Hoax

I guess Halliburton, Lockheed and the other wolves aren´t making enough money any more in IRAQ, time to move on and implement the PNAC agenda.

Promise is a promise, right Mr. Cheney and Mr. Rumsfeld?

Originally posted by signs
We disagree on this matter is all. I hear what is behind the words despite the way they are twisted or get attributed to the great 'Imman.' That was the guy in Cold Mountain, right?

[edit on 24-5-2006 by signs]

I sourced an analytical article from the Information Clearing House. Did you even bother to read it or do you just like holding on to your beliefs and stating them without even wanting to look at further possible relevant documentation?

For example, the Bush Administration was telling you, which I imagine you held as gospel, that it had bulletproof evidence of Iraqi WMD. You still believe that BS?