OP/ED: Cracks in the Facade

As I scoll down and read the various posts on this thread one thing is obvious, Tommy, Semperfortis, muaddib etc. who have taken up so much space ridiculing and/or attacking me for expressing my opinion, as is my right, haven't attempted to repute what I said in my essay, which ironically enough highlights exactly what I was saying about some bush supporters in the first place. Instead of actually discussing the issues I brought up about what many of us feel are the sins and abuses of the administration in a rational manner they attack, and part of that is to accuse me of the very thing they are doing. A pretty bit of projection if you ask me. Oh well no skin off my ample arse. They are the ones making fools of themselves.

Grover

I expected no less. See the big liberal in action. Look at the pitiful response he gives for his own defense.

This is the best he can do. He has to TRY and be CLEVER. He has to disguse his HATE.

But he can't...His OP/ED piece is nothing but HATE. You can't make an argument against hatred. HATRED can't be reasoned with.

Just as I stated. His HATRED is clouded in his "expression", "opinion". Which is of course his "right". But, Grover did not take the time to read anything. He just saw there were pro-Bush people here and came up with the best he could...

THE TYPICAL LIBERAL WHINE..."We are Attacking him".

Hmmm...., I think in one of my posts I said you do have the "right to say anything you want" I think i wrote that YOU could not ADMIT your HATRED.

But, Grover did not see this...because he is filled with his HATRED.

See how the big liberal Grover twists things around?

TYPICAL LIBERAL WHINE..."Instead of trying to repute what I said they attack".

I gave you economic indicators in response to your "opinion"...What did you give me...HATRED.

What is your OP/ED filled with, HATRED. Thats all the big liberal grover has to offer...HATRED.

What else does grover offer? His supporter who was nothing more than another Big Liberal in DISGUSE. He offers this person up as support for his HATRED. But when called on it, he can't even defend his supporter.

See the big liberals response, "we took up space ridiculing him".

The big liberal took up space with his HATRED DISGUSED AS "OPINION" and "EXPRESSION".

See the big liberal grover...he can't resist...he has to insult. "They are making fools of themselves"

And then of course....

THE CUT & RUN...ULTIMATE LIBERAL RESPONSE...."Its no skin off his arse"...

I EXPECTED NO LESS...

I'LL SAY IT AGAIN...YOUR OP/ED PIECE IS NOTHING MORE THAN WHAT HAS BEEN SAID BY THE HATE BUSH CROWD. IT IS NOT AN ORIGINAL THOUGHT.

THE LIBERAL DOESN'T LIVE THAT HAS AN ORIGINAL THOUGHT...

You see the liberal in his natural habitat? The liberal has to cut and run. He has no other choice. He doesn't have the stomach for an argument. If he did, his HATRED will surface, You see the true liberal can't discuss economics. He can't fight a real conservative. All he has is his HATRED DISGUSED IN A PHONY OP/ED.

Now the other liberals with gather around the fire and sing cum-by-ya but when challanged by a true conservative,

THEY CUT AND RUN..................THATS THE TRUE LIBERAL IN ACTION.

See grover, where are all your supporters? THEY CUT AND RAN AND LEFT YOU ALL ALONE.....

Somebody has been listening to too much Hannity and Limbaugh.

I swear, Tommy, i could play you one of their shows, and its word for word.

Its brainwashing, my friend.

ATTENTION!

ATSNN is for the serious discussion of real issues, even in response to Op/Ed articles.

Politics.AboveTopSecret.com is dedicated to partisan bickering.

Any further name sniping or partisan madness in this thread will result in significant warnings and/or post bans.

Please focus on these important issues, and move knee-jerk political commentary to Politics.AboveTopSecret.com.

So tommy are you incapable of discussing the issues without attacking? Your last post (and the subsquent ones as well) suggest not. I personally don't give a flying boink about Bush the man one way or another...what I do care about is what he and his cronies are doing to this country. If I am wrong in that, then have the courtesy to point out how and why without resorting to your stupid belittlements.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
...................
Any further name sniping or partisan madness in this thread will result in significant warnings and/or post bans.

So why is it that this op/ed was posted here when this is not the place for "political sniping and bickering?....

Didn't the original poster of this thread resort to the same "political sniping and bickering" that now Republicans are responding to?

Skepticoverlord,

Please move this thread so we can continue the "discussion".

You have threatend, and I'm going to assume its directed at me, with post bans. You call for serious discussion.

I submitt to you that in my posts at no time did I insult anyone personally. I DID, however attack the OP/ED piece. I have stated what is really going on here. The original "op/ed" is nothing more than hatred. I have called the supporters of the piece on it.

You have allowed this piece to be listed here. Now you have to allow posts either for or against. If you do not, it is nothing less than CENSORSHIP.

What I find amazing is the fact that you have not stepped in until now. Now, only after all the supporters stud up and yelled "great job grover".

I'll admitt that 90% of what I have posted was done and meant to be done in a very sarcastic manor.

If you read the posts, and i'm sure you did, you will see that. But, I have exposed this person for being what he is, A BIG LIBERAL and for his HATRED. I didn't resort to name calling. But, I have been accused of being "brainwashed" and "Stupid".

Conservatives and conservatism in general has been abused on this thread. With comments like, "blind political loyalist", "i think they all stink", "sewage".

And now here you are allowing the original post to be listed and supported, but, when there is disagreement, you threaten us with being banned.

All I have done is simply list the characteristics of liberals, in response to the OP/ED piece. What you call bickering, I call exposing the trueth.

The trueth about liberals and their HATE.

I listed economic indicators to disprove the op/ed. What did I get in return? "the numbers are FAKED".

Now, it's up to you to either let this post be seen or to ban it.

Why do you question someone who runs this board and works so hard at giving us a place to post our thoughts?
Please stop aggravating the situation and cool it.

Tommy you haven't exposed anyone or anything I am a liberal and damned proud of it thank you very much and have never hid it. Got a problem with that? If so its your own problem, not mine. I don't give a damned if you are a conservative or not but if you don't think you have been attacking me in your posts then you have as little an idea what attacking means as you do the term liberal. You have yet to address a single thing in my post or proved me wrong. You say the economy is good? Well Ok, but the economy is only one indicator as to how well a country is doing. The economy is good if you own stocks but wages are stagnat and small businesses are hurting, I know I am friends with several small business people and they are all struggling. Jobs are being out sourced overseas and not being replaced..just south of my part of the country the unemployment is in double digits...and these are hard working people who have had their manufacturing jobs shipped overseas. Go to southside virginia and north carolina and tell them how well they are doing.

You have repeatdly attacked me in this thread and when I call your responses stupid...you go crying about how you have so wrongly been attacked. And you call us knee jerk liberals HA! As yet you have simply proved my thesis right about Bush supporters and their blinders and for that I thank you very much...there is nothing like a good healthy speciman to prove the existance of something.

dgtempe, Grover

I thought the theme of this site is "deny ignorance"? Who is denying ignorance here? Me? You? Grover? Mauddib? Scepticoverlord? or ATS?.

Yes, you are correct, these people do work hard to give us a place to post our thoughts. And I whole - heartedly thank them for it.

But, all thoughts should be heard. Should they not? If all thoughts aren't heard then who is really denying ignorance?

All I have done is to point out my case to scepticoverlord. If I am not allowed to make my own argument, to defend my position then who is guilty of denying ignorance? You? Me? Grover? Scepticoverlord? or ATS?

All I see on this site is how "eveyones views" are being opressed. How our "freedoms" are being taken away.

And now, if our posts are going to be banned without being allowed to be seen, who is doing the oppressing? Who is taking away freedoms? You? Me? Grover? Mauddib? Semperfortis? Scepticoverlord? or ATS?

You can't have a website and claim to "deny ignorance" then only let one side be heard. That is opression. That is the issue.

I read a post by one of the moderators that discussion here is to be held in a "consipiratorial manner"

I now charge you and ATS with a new conspiracy theory. You are all conspiring against conservatives. My next logical step in the discussion is to copy or link every ANTI - BUSH thread to prove my theory. Of course that would take days because that is what this site is filled with.

I am in no way trying to offend the moderators. If it is the policy to hold this discussion in PTS then it is the thread should be moved by the moderators. I don't run this site and I have no Idea how to do this, so I must continue the discussion here.

***********************

Now...to your comment on "brainwashing". No. I have my own mind. I hold an associate, bachelors and masters degree all in business. I am not brainwashed. If I listen to sean, rush, monica, laura, mark, it is to get a break from the biased liberal media such as, the new york times, the washington post, the LA times, channels 2,4,5,7,9,11 and PBS.

This is the thing liberals don't understand...CONSERVATIVES STAND FOR SOMETHING. I STAND FOR SOMETHING. I can take a stand and I can defend myself. How I choose to defend myself is my business.

To defend this I give you Howard Dean;

articles.news.aol.com...

Read the link....The true liberal in action.

The Bush administration does not have to be corrected like the great Howard Dean.

*******************************

Grover, I bet you thought I forgot about you.....

In response to your comment about my "stupid belittlements"...see, you couldn't resist, you had to insult me. Your HATRED comes out and reveals what you really are.

I give you the following links for the 3rd time.

www.economicindicators.gov...
www.gpoaccess.gov...
www.whitehouse.gov...
www.economic-indicators.com...

This is how we measure success. This is how we measure the economic strength of the United States of America. All indicators are up. If what you claim is true, then why is the economy in such good shape?

Now, let me address your comments about Bush and his "cronies".

You claim not to care about Bush, but you care about what he is doing to this country. I'll say it again, look at the economic indicators. That's what he's done to this country.

Now, If you truely didn't care you would not have "written your OP/ED piece. Go back and see how many times you called him and his "cronies" liars. You have accused them of every crime on the books and others that are not...Here is where I have exposed you for your HATRED.

See...you have tried to be clever...you have tried to hide your HATRED in opinion, you have tried to twist your meaning...you have tried to drum up support...you have tried to show me a "Bush supporter" who disagrees...but we know what he really is....you have tried to DISGUSE what you really are..."discuss the issues"

But it is your HATRED that betrays you all the time...HATRED that betrays all liberals. You have to insult..."your stupid belittlements", because you can't discuss the economic strength of this country. This is where you lose every time.

And when the day is over, all you have left is your HATRED...

Your OP/ED is filled with nothing but attacks and accusations. It offers up no solutions, no ideas, nothing of value.....it is you who started the attack.

THAT IS THE TRUE LIBERAL IN DISGUSE.

Just to let you know, one of your supporters said you should post your OP/ED piece on Hannity.com. I want you to know, I emailed your piece directly to Sean himself. Don't worry, Sean has my email, home and cell #'s.

You see, I stand behind every word I've written, Yes, even to the moderator. Lets see if you can stand behind what you've written.

I am in SC, an admittedly poor state and would love to know, see the proof of where these "Double Digit" unemployment stats are from?

Not here in SC.

]And of course "some" small business are struggling, that is always the case.

I can not believe we are even debating the state of the economy.

Even Boxer, keenedy and pelosi admit to a strong economy.

Weak argument at best. Little or no research probably.

Actually semperfortis I was referring to southside virginia, I thought I mentioned that. Well now that Karl Rove has resigned due to his inditement in the CIA Valerie Plame case, we shall see how loyal bush and his cronies are to each other.

So I see how it is, if I say something about your god tommy it is an excerise of your feee speech to attack me but if I retailate I am the one expressing hate. funny, real funny.

The real indicators of how well the country is doing are jobs and wages which are as i said stagnat, but also how people express how they feel things are going....the majority of those polled feel this country is going in the wrong direction, bushes approval ratings are in the low 30's and falling, congress is at 23% or there abouts and a significent number, nay a majority of those polled feel democrats would do a better job than republicans do, most disapprove of how bush is handling or mishandling Iraq and so it goes and no amount of hysterics from bush supporters will change those facts. Even if he could fins somebody to fly another plane into something, it wouldn't help him, it would only showcase his failures at security.

Face it bush has always been a strawdog for his corporate owners and no matter how loyal you are, unless you have several hundred million in the bank and are willing to share it with the republican national committee, you have never been part of his consticuency, but are just another rube.

P.S. you make such a big deal of denying ignorance and you are right, you spend alot of time denying your own ignorance.

tommy1701 is right. ATSNN is supposed to be a portal of news and conspiracies, there are many conspiracies out there, yet i have seen ATSNN go from at first being an unbiased source of news which had a lot of threads with real news, to now being a "forum to spread hatred against Republicans".

This op/ed is nothing more than biased opinion, insults and belittling comments. What did you think Republicans in this site were going to think when you claim "they are all religious fanatics" etc, etc?...among some of the other insults and belittling comments you made?...

What is worse is that it seems the staff, or at least part of them, are allowing and agreeing to this. It is fine if people want to post their opinion, but resorting to insults and belittling comments and the staff members saying "people should keep to the topic"... Yet, what is really the topic and the reason of this thread if not "for political bickering"?

I guess from now on only one side of the issue can be presented even in ATSNN, because when Republicans respond to the belittling comments and insults, then and only then does a staff member appear and demands that everyone keep it down, yet the damage was already done, and the insults were already given. I have seen this become a trend and a habit around here, and it is a shame.

You all want to talk about "supression" and "dictatorships"....well, it appears ATSNN has become one. If I am wrong then show it.


[edit on 12-5-2006 by Muaddib]

Personally I don't care if it's republican or democrat, I just don't care!!! It's what negatively effects the world is who I rail against, regardless of what party it is.

Hell as a Canadian I don't even like my current Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, although he does has a conservative label, I don't like his policies.

OK, dang, I don't like conservatives, so what am I a liberal?
I'd like a conservative if they were just and honest, hell that's what I want in a government, and you? Not to say conservatives bad, liberals good, just wanted to relate this to current topic as it relates to me vs. you or you and you.

Ahhh, petty names, petty names.
Names and titles, yet they are all buttwipes.
Every gal-darn one of them, they are all power hungry miscreants living off the public teat.

Let's wean them!

Yes Grover as a typical Lib. YOU said salary is stagnant (and you said VA, and NC ) (though you wont admit it)
However your statement is FALSE and MADE up to support a weak argument.

YOU attack Tommy, and accuse us of attacking you. Typical lib tactics.

Yes, poll numbers are down and as typical libs (lemmings), you have so little individual thought and you are all going over the cliff together waiting for your chance to talk about it. Why would Bush care, he isn't running next year? Oh sorry the conspiracy .. HA HA HA

YOU said employment is NOT up. Again FALSE anywhere you choose to look for facts that is proven a lie. Again to falsely support a weak argument.

Bush is not a straw dog for corporate supporters. HE IS a corporate king and proud of it. He is the living embodiment of the american dream. (like Kennedy?)

Sadly I go back through and read your previous postings and see the hate there radiating through and wonder where it comes from. You accuse tommy of all of the things that your own words espouse.
I am not personally acquainted with any Conservatives that have ever blindly supported President Bush. I am however a member of some forums that have attempted to discover the liberal hatred for any one man. A hatred so vile and overwhelming as to render the subject incapable of independent thought. So encompassing that they feel it necessary to lie, to falsely accuse and even resort to name calling.
There have been several theories, but nothing truly concrete. The most viable of the theories, along psychological standards, involves his open Christianity. I, however, follow the "sore loser" theorem. Perhaps not as provable along psychological standards, yet I believe subject to further investigation.
Lets examine Grover posts along these lines.
First he began by accusing "bush supporters" of having blinders. When did it become unfashionable to support ones President? When did being proud of a leader become wrong, bad perhaps even evil?
He claims lies from the current administration and shows no proof. When asked for proof, he screams repression and claims he is being attacked. HMMMM
Grover claims environments have died, oceans rising etc and again no proof.
You accuse muaddib of being unintelligent because he disagreed with you.
You state you can see where your opinion may be wrong, yet attack those who think it may be?
You claim your opinion may be biased and ask for proof against it, yet supply no proof of your opinion.
You have even resorted to the use of adjectives such as stupid, ignorant etc when speaking of posters on your thread.
It is sad that the hate is so intense, so overwhelming that it makes it impossible to actively debate as this site intends for us to do.
The world is made up of different ideologies, that is a wonderful thing. Yet when we disagree, why is it that we are wrong? When we defend our position, why is that attacking you?
Is your position so weak that it can not withstand scrutiny? You have obviously made some things up to support your argument, are you then fearful this will be exposed.
Again, it is sad that rational discourse is impossible on this thread. Much could be accomplished. I fear it will not though, so I will move on to other threads with posters of more character and ability to debate on an equal footing.
Good Luck.

who attacked whom first is what i ask? read back and long before I engaged tommy or muaddib i was being belittled for stating what i obviously admitted was my opinion, as is my right. If you or tommy so vehemently disagree with me, use your reasoning and writing skills to compose an alternative opinion piece and post it.

Hate? you right wingers hated Clinton so much the arkansas project was set up to create scandals to smear him with and he was inpeached for a personal indiscrition that should have never been dragged before a grand jury, gingrich has publically admitted that clinton was impeached because he felt slighted aboard air force one, and that he had the republican votes in congress to do so. talk about an abuse of power. Now that the shoe is on the other foot you can't stand it. talk about a bunch of weenies...you guys even have to gang up to attack someone. I have seen you guys in action on "liberal websites gang up on people who disagree with you too. Pathetic. You just can't abide it when somebody has a different opinion and again prove my thesis and you are too blind to see it...I have to thank you and tommy for your postings though, ou have given me plenty of laughs.

Rove's being indited lets see how loud he squeals LOL.

Wow, i am no liberal. I may appear to be, but i am not. LIBERAL is not a dirty word, anyway, i just have some very conservative traits....

I have always said i would take a good Republican president anytime! It just so happens, Tommy, that the current one holding the presidential reign, is not worthy of the title. Why, you ask? He has shown from day one that he is incompetent for the job. That's it. No further details are needed because YOU know as well as i do what the famous crime family set out to do and is doing to our country. It has ruined the "feeling" of this country. You must know what i mean. Dont ask me to elaborate on this one, please. No need to.

The president's approval ratings is 29 as it stands today...That's not my poll, that is from the Wall Street Journal. Evidently, a few out there feel the same way Grover and I do. Are we all crazy? You remember the "Red" map during the first and second elections?(fraud), It is now mainly "Blue". People must be insane now. Why has this happened? Why are MOST Americans against ths president now? Could it be that there have been so many lies, over and over, coverups, deceit, that people cannot bear it anymore? Has the whole nation turned Liberal?
Has Sean Hannity and Limbaugh and the like out there HELPED the situation by dividing us further with their mad and HATEFUL rhetoric? No. You speak of hate?
Oh man, there is so much evil polluting the airwaves by your Satanic talking heads it could make your head spin.

The truth of the matter is Mr. Bush & Co. have done this to themselves. The "Liberals" did not set him up to screw up the country.
They accomplished this all by themselves.

If you are looking for links to everything i've said, i dont provide them. I could hook you up with some here who have thousands of links as to HOW George has managed to mess up the country and the world.

Well tommy, I do not know about you, but reading the last two postings has convinced me that this was started out as a liberal talking point, and has now gravitated to funny faces and name calling.

Not much chance of any intellectual banter on here. If you like tommy, join me on here.
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

I can not debate without some sort of intelligent response in return and that is apparently not going to happen.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I can not debate without some sort of intelligent response in return and that is apparently not going to happen.

Oh yes it is. I just came across this thread and will state right now that any further slamming of members BY EITHER SIDE will now be met with red flags aflyin. Personally I take exception that we are covering for any ideology.

NOW, back to the topic but don't forget this admonition.

Edit: Syntax.

[edit on 13-5-2006 by intrepid]