African LIONS Vanishing due to Maasai--Get rid of the Maasai People

i just finished watching a documentary on PBS NATURE's THE VANISHING LIONS .

Across Africa, the King of Beasts is in trouble. In the late 20th century, wildlife preserves were created to curtail safari hunting, but the African lion population continues to decline. Their numbers have dwindled from 100,000 in the early 1990s to no more than 30,000 and as few as 16,000 today. What could be endangering the King of Beasts?

A: the maasai are killing these wonderful creatures...when the lions kill their cattle or so they say. or they could just be killing them from tradition..passage from boy to man.

i would rather see lions in the wild open spaces of africa (and for my children and great grand children for that matter) than half naked men in red bedsheets wandering around with their cattle in africa.

im angry enough atm to even advocate genocide on these maasai folk just to have the lions survive and not go extinct in the wild. we have enough of the human population to get by fine without these maasai.

heck if we wanted to see some half naked dude walking around the bush during safaris we could just hire some other african to do it...one that does not herd cattle and kill lions to get by...

i know all these sounds harsh but i think its time we started protecting wildlife rather than a minority of the human population that have not kept up with the rest of the world...who are decimating whats left of an already dwindling population of lions.

so...do we round these massai up and shoot them in the head or do we want to educate them in terms of modern ranching and farming...i say we go for the cheaper solution...

Death in the Mara - A report on the Masai killing a lion family

I know you are not being serious cuz if you are, you really should seek counseling of some kind. That tribe has probably been around a lot longer then your entire family tree has and you want to kill a bunch of these people because they are killing lions? More then likely something they have done for centuries. The encroachment of civilisation has nothing to do with the disppearance of these animals at all? Hunters from all over the world have been there killing lions and they havent been affecting the lion population at all?Just the Massai and they should be put to death for that?

you can't go shooting people in the head.... you just give them all aids and wait them out.

no really we can't go hexing these people for wanting to cary out their traditions. perhaps we can steer them in the right direction by dressing cows up as lions for them to stab at with their pointy sticks.



[edit on 4-5-2006 by spearhead]

Like ThePieMaN said. The Maasai people have been around for many, many moons. And they happily co-existed with the lions and all the other beasts. The big problem came with westernization. The land was taken away from the local tribes. The people were "taught" that money and power were more important than just feeding your family. Fences were put up to keep lions in (or out - depending on how you look at it). Lions' hunting grounds became very limited. Their prey became scares because of "the white man's" hunting and fences. Hunger forced them to prey on livestock. The Maasai was in return forced to protect their livestock.

It may the Maasai people killing the lions, but you need to trace back the source of the problem. If you do that you may just end up in Europe.

If you really want to save the lion, you should de-modernize everything. Get rid of all the fences, roads and everything else that may be unnatural. But I'm afraid it's too late for that. Modern standards are set, and in my opinion it's too late to turn back.

Oh, they just give you a “half-naked dude” as a tour guide because that’s what over-seas tourists want. The whole “African” experience.

"whats killing the lions now are people (maasai) killing them in defense of livestock. full stop" laurence frank, laikipia predator project.


these lions are being killed in huge huge national parks or near the borders...

yea they have been around for a long time...fine...but they sure havent progressed with the rest of civilisation...

if you argue peaceful co-existance...why kill a lion for taking cattle? surely man being the dominant species on earth can afford to lose a few livestock?

but noooo...one of the maasai interviewed vowed to kill each and every lion he came across...i was speechless...i would rather him gone than the lions...

and yes...death and bad karma to all those hunters who killed lions, tigers, elephants, rhinos...as sport...but thankfully thats been outlawed now...

who advocated the death of white people when the dodo was hunted into extinction?
or when the buffalo of the western US was nearly put into the same position?
or when baby seals or minxs are killed for the vanity of making fur coats?
oh, but when it comes to Africans who are living off of their own land then human death in exchange for animal life becomes appropriate?
please.

[edit on 4-5-2006 by karby]

i dont see you screaming for the killing of people like these -

www.safaribwana.com...
www.lionhunting.com...
www.ausafari.com...
www.relentlessendurance.com...

you know, people who kill lions with guns for fun because they think it makes them big and tough.

I can't comment on the documentary you saw, I haven't seen it. But I can maybe remind you not to believe everything you see on TV. Yes, documentaries - the type you see on Discovery channel - are insightful and a good source of information. But sometimes they mix it a bit thick. I've seen docu's on South Africa (and other places I often visit) and laughed out loud because of the complete and utter nonsense they sell - especially about Africa.

As I said - there are many factors that play a role in the killing of the lions. It isn't just a matter of remove the Maasai and the problem is solved... Did you consider killing the livestock of the Maasai? Wouldn't that be an easier solution than killing people?

Oh, and if you want to start killing people for destroying nature (killing off animals) you'll need a whole lot of bullets. Should I start with a list of endangered animals outside Africa? Is this where we start killing Europeans, Americans, Asians, etc. because of all the other endangered and extinct animals? And what about the endangered and extinct plants?

You want to start killing and/or removing humans so that animals can live in their own right? Good luck. Maybe WWIII is your answer?

karby/justyc...i said death and bad karma to all hunters of innocent wildlife in my last post...im not rascist

i despise all who kill animals as sport esp those who kill to put them on the wall...


ok gem...ive changed my mind...we shouldnt kill the maasai...but damn them for killing lions...

Damn the massai...

This post really pissed me off for the ignorance and the whole idea that animals need to be held in higher regard than human life.

What gave you the moral authority to wish genocide on a tribe that has existed far longer than you realize? What gives you the audacity to believe that because you have a computer and a car and STUFF that your way of life is so much more highly evolved than a tribesman?

The whole falacy of believing that our grasp of technology inherently gives us a higher step to stand on in the evolutionary ladder is laudable.

Perhaps the tribesmen with their close ties to the natural world have developed a quality of life and understanding the western world can't comprehend? Maybe they are more in tune spiritually than we are with the natural way. They developed in other ways, western society developed technologically but is stunted in our spiritual development.

Who's the more evolved in that paradigm?

The pieman and gemwolf explained it very well - the shame should lie on the shoulders of the people that destroyed the natural order and caused the situation.


At the same token, would you like to see animals life held in higher regard than human life? Let's round your family up and let the massai hunt them for their passage to manhood and see how you feel.

Originally posted by SpanishFly
would rather see lions in the wild open spaces of africa (and for my children and great grand children for that matter) than half naked men in red bedsheets wandering around with their cattle in africa.

im angry enough atm to even advocate genocide on these maasai folk just to have the lions survive and not go extinct in the wild. we have enough of the human population to get by fine without these maasai.

heck if we wanted to see some half naked dude walking around the bush during safaris we could just hire some other african to do it...one that does not herd cattle and kill lions to get by...

What an unconscionable position...

Nothing like taking a despicable situation and managing to suggest a "solution" that is far more obscene than the problem it is designed to fix.

I hope you aren't really serious.

:shk:

Its just a matter of Over-population, simply too many people an this is yet another reason, is all, this tribe prolly didnt have to keep an eye on lions becuz they had enuff plains to mate an make more killable lions its the cycle of life, now that we must build Mcdonalds an Diamond Mines everywhere we can pee, nature is gonna go the way of the Dinosaurs.........

Never in any sense, is Killing a Intelegent action. But it can be the only one left due to situations, but this isnt one of them..........

(starts singing) " In the Jungle, the Mighty Jungle, the lone lion roars tonight"

[edit on 5-5-2006 by Tranceopticalinclined]

The natural habitat of the lion has been shrinking and shrinking as man ever encroaches on it's former habitat. The Maasai, while protective of their cattle only live in a relatively small part of Africa. To blame them for what they have done for centuries is really missing the point. They are not the main culprit, man in general is.

Lions are declining in population the same way Tigers have been. As man moved in on the Tigers habitat they killed off the Tigers as they were a threat to their villages and livestock. American and Canadian ranchers did the same with Wolves and coyotes in North America does that qualify them for the firing squad too?


As of 2003 there were 169 wolves in Yellowstone National Park and that is only because they were reintroduced by man.
The only way these major predators will survive in the future is by man keeping and protecting them in zoos and natural preserves unfortuantely.

Originally posted by SpanishFly
karby/justyc...i said death and bad karma to all hunters of innocent wildlife in my last post...im not rascist

i despise all who kill animals as sport esp those who kill to put them on the wall...


ok gem...ive changed my mind...we shouldnt kill the maasai...but damn them for killing lions...

Any chance the home or town you're living in has destroyed the habitat of any particular fauna or flora?

More than likely it has.

If other peoples who are offended at loss of habitat start hunting you and your fellow townspeople I hope you'll understand.

Ever wonder why there aren't any lions in Europe any more?

I'll give you a clue - they didn't become extinct due to disease, climate change or alien abduction.....