Menezes Execution

Jean Charles Menezes was executed by a hit squad on the 22nd July 05. I know somebody who has inside knowledge on the on going investigation. They're not part of the investigation very close to someone who is. According to my friend theres going to be a lot more information about what happened on that day coming out in the news very soon.

One of the most disturbing bits of information is the manner in which Mr.Menezes was assassinated. He was apparently pinned to the ground by at least two men each of whom helped hold his arms so that they were at a 90 degree angle from his waist. So you can imagine he was on the floor, on his belly, arms far from his waist or chest and no way of accessing any device. A third man later knelt with one knee on the victims back and fired 7 shots into the back of his head. Apparently this is what must be done according to police regulations. If a man is thought to be a suicide bomber, there is no other option but to execute him/her. To be honest I think this is a fair enough policy, however Jean Charles Menezes was wearing a t-shirt. I dont know about you guys but i think a team of people following this guy would have been able to tell if he had anything under his shirt, especially a bomb.

The men who carried out this attack were described to me as “psychos” and trained to take people out. Unfortunately these men, who carried out this brutal attack are to high up and far too valuable to be held accountable.

This is pretty much all the information i have at the moment and the next time i talk to this person I'll see if i can get any more out of him. But i hope you can understand i cant go into too much detail on who this person is and what part they play in this investigation without risking their job.

I have no evidence of this at the moment, but if what i have been told (and theres no reason for this person to lie) the information will be in the news shortly. I thought i would share this information now and let you guys know theres more to come. If you have any questions I'll take note of them and ask him the next time i see him.

I think i'll hold judgement on this one at the moment. The agencies that recruit and train Special Firearms Officers or "whoever" those guys were that day, they are'nt usually in a rush to recruit "psycho's" if they can help it.

In hind sight yes it does look like they were going a bit far shooting him the way they did, then again until i'm in a position where i have to take out a possible and supposed suicide bomber, just days after several have blown the underground to bits, then personally i'm going to hold my opinions on how they should or should'nt have reacted.

I find it as confusing as anyone here how a team of guys who are as highly trained as they were, could end up getting such crappy intel that they end up shooting an unarmed guy, especially when at the last minute they still had the last call on the shooting. Everyone knows intelligence can be wrong at times, but the kind of guys who carry out these duties are'nt usually the sort who would make major mistakes when recognising the risk that thier target was presenting. I'm not saying they are perfect by any means, but they ARE highly trained so certainly are'nt ametures.

Even if the guys arms were at 90 degrees to his body, in a split second decision whether or not he is going to trigger a device or not, maybe the SFO's thought he could have a trigger concealed in one of his hands, that hand does'nt have to be near his body does it?

The thing that does worry me is that the guy was apparently wearing a t-shirt, and not the huge padded jacket as first thought. Most trained personell would be able to make a rough judgement as to whether there were explosives strapped to him or not. Then again in the wonderfull world of explosives, it does'nt have to be something huge and noticeable to do some damage. By the time they'd looked for a trigger in a closed hand (if it was indeed closed), it could have been too late.

If your above post is true, then i look forward to seeing this brought out in the open for all to see. Then again, from what i've read above, everything that you said has already been told and discussed, apart from the "psycho's" thing. I'm not saying that there are'nt troops, police officers and others in agencies that use firearms that should'nt ever have been given a firearm, hell i've worked with such guys myself!

I would'nt say the guys are too valuable to be held accountable either, thats the kind of thing people in these situations may think and tell you, but it's never the truth. Sometimes we see the very high levels of organisation wriggle out of stuff, but a member of a firearms team? Don't think so. They'll fry before the top brass lose any pay for this.

CX.

sorry let me elaborate. What i think my friend meant my "psychos" was, as i take it, a person who isn't afraid to die, could destroy someone twice their size and good a good aim perhaps. Unfortunately i can not be certain of what he meant, but thats what sprang to my mind. Psychos is also a term used by an ex solider to describe the SAS in a documentary i saw a while ago.

Yes it is possible for a trigger to be hidden up you sleeve or in you hand but Menezes was wearing a t-shirt. Any wires running up his arms or devices in his hands i believe would have been spotted.

This was a massive cock up by our police and i truly hope everyone responsible is brought to justice. But like i said, i dont think many heads are going to roll over this. If these men were not associated with the police and instead closely related to military intelligence I think Ian Blair will go.

He wasn't executed, he was shot in an error of judgment.
I admit the facts are some what disturbing, but to say he was executed is totally wrong.
You say you have facts from someone who is dealing with the investigation? I thought the investigation had been carried out months ago. What new News do you have regarding this? Enlighten us all please.

Originally posted by theBman

Yes it is possible for a trigger to be hidden up you sleeve or in you hand but Menezes was wearing a t-shirt. Any wires running up his arms or devices in his hands i believe would have been spotted.

Not all bombs need to be connected to the detonator by a wire for it to detonate. Remote control, cell phones etc.

As for what you thought he meant by the word "psycho", a person who isn't afraid to die, and could destroy someone twice their size with a good aim pretty much describes most of the well trained armed forces, does'nt mean they are psycho's. I don't mean to sound like i'm being harsh on this point, maybe "psycho" is just the wrong choice of words for guys who do thier job well when needed.

CX.

He wasn't executed, he was shot in an error of judgment. I admit the facts are some what disturbing, but to say he was executed is totally wrong. You say you have facts from someone who is dealing with the investigation? I thought the investigation had been carried out months ago. What new News do you have regarding this? Enlighten us all please.

When it's not only lawful but procedure to kill someone you believe to be a suicide bomber i would call that an execution(dictionary.reference.com...). Seven shots to the head from close range is no "error of judgment" the only error was that they got the wrong guy.

I cannot go into the details, sorry. But from what i understand there are still forensics of some sort being carried out as well as reconstructions. I myself am not 100% sure that the information will surface, but i have no reason to believe that the person i got this from was lying. He is very close to someone with inside knowledge on the matter.

oh and i just found this

A separate investigation by the IPCC into a complaint from the family of Mr de Menezes continues.

www.ipcc.gov.uk...

[edit on 28/4/06 by theBman]

As for what you thought he meant by the word "psycho", a person who isn't afraid to die, and could destroy someone twice their size with a good aim pretty much describes most of the well trained armed forces, does'nt mean they are psycho's. I don't mean to sound like i'm being harsh on this point, maybe "psycho" is just the wrong choice of words for guys who do thier job well when needed.

I totally agree. People in these positions that risk their lives job deserve a hell of a lot more credit than just being labeled as psychos. However there was a documentary a while ago which questioned the minds of people in the military and looked at wars over the last century. A lot of the men fighting in WW2 would apparently try and miss their targets because the thought of killing another man was so horrific. They came to the conclusion that the really brave men, the guys who would run at machine gun bunkers and throw in a couple of grenades were not wired in the same way most of us are.

[edit on 28/4/06 by theBman]

Originally posted by theBman
However there was a documentary a while ago which questioned the minds of people in the military and looked at wars over the last century. A lot of the men fighting in WW2 would apparently try and miss their targets because the thought of killing another man was so horrific. They came to the conclusion that the really brave men, the guys who would run at machine gun bunkers and throw in a couple of grenades were not wired in the same way most of us are.

[edit on 28/4/06 by theBman]

I remember seeing something similar on a documentary about Timothy McVeigh. I think they referred to the Vietnam War when they quoted statistics but they stated that something like 98% of soldiers who killed enemy soldiers were traumatised by the events, the 2% that were'nt ended up being diagnosed with psychopathic tendancies or something like that.

CX.