Bush Suspends Environmental Gas Rules

Originally posted by desert
I think that the oil company's profits are in a different league than the gas station owner's profits.

I understand that but is placing yourself in a more controlling position in supply chain now wrong? It's after all either capitalism or it isn't.

How can I tell about the skies?--the choking, everyday thick brown smog of 40 years ago I breathed is gone.

Well my question was really how much that brown smog really affected the planet at large and not how it affected you personally...

An oil co's family can escape to a mountain retreat.

Well his kids have to go to school and his got to travel and work in the city at least some of the time. I am not suggesting that these guys are model citizens, or that they are more likely to care about the environment than the rest of us, but that they can only get away with as much as we allow them to to. Maybe if we all did more rational things to protect the environment ( not including restrictions on power and energy production) we would not be duped into supporting agencies which actions results in restrictions on our living standards. Are people who work 7 or less hours a day ( the French with their 'cheapest energy in Europe' - if not anywhere) more or less likely to have the mental/physical energy and time to fight for what they want to happen in their country? Time is the ultimate resource and when a government seeks to create a economic situation where you are ( in some places they even convinced people that that was what they wanted) busy all hours of the day you will now know their true aim.

Increasing energy production will decrease poverty?

Everything must be moved&produced and the one factor that can make the whole system more efficient and 'cheap' is low cost energy. To make a system truly efficient you can still deal with high initial cost but with high running costs your just slowly bankrupting yourself.

I do agree we consume too much (we are an overdeveloped country), but let us be an example of the better way to balance energy and consumption, proactive rather than reactive as we are at the moment.

Consuming 'too much' is belief that can only be derived from guilt and who spent the money to pay for the propaganda that made you feel guilty about living a good life? Consuming 'too much' is a lie created and propagated by those who are afraid of what would happen if people become wealthy enough to start changing the world as they wanted it instead of a world filled with uniformly poor people who can easily be manipulated to do what it takes to survive.

I propose we first create the situations in which we can ALL prosper and , if there is anything left , then try save the planet with our new found wealth and greater energy and technological resources resulting from our demand to get only the best . I believe that stunting human progress ( in the misguided belief that such will 'save the environment&planet) is the exact course of action that will ultimately destroy us if we allow those who control the flow of energy to have their restrictive way.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

Well my question was really how much that brown smog really affected the planet at large and not how it affected you personally...

Time is the ultimate resource and when a government seeks to create a economic situation where you are ( in some places they even convinced people that that was what they wanted) busy all hours of the day you will now know their true aim.

I propose we first create the situations in which we can ALL prosper and , if there is anything left , then try save the planet with our new found wealth and greater energy and technological resources resulting from our demand to get only the best . I believe that stunting human progress ( in the misguided belief that such will 'save the environment&planet) is the exact course of action that will ultimately destroy us if we allow those who control the flow of energy to have their restrictive way.

Stellar

Ah, my fellow ATS poster, are we not all on this planet together, breathing its air and drinking its water--how can it not affect each one of us personally?

I couldn't agree more with you about time. What is our government's true aim? Forty years ago futurists spoke of a 35 hr work week with so much leisure time by now the question was how to fill it.

Those who control the flow of energy do have their restrictive way--Enron, for ex. Prosperity after WWII graced this nation (but not all in it, true), and government naivety said we were going to get cheap energy from the atom. We are in an energy usage dilemma now. It saddens me that our great nation with all its great technological advances is not a world leader in new ideas.

We are lead to believe we have a high quality of life here, but, in truth, we have a high quantity of life and need a better quality. What were we told to do after 9-11, go shopping. A nation that taunts its citizens with family values, yet works families with decreasing family time, without true security of health and general wellfare, does not have good quality.

Originally posted by desert
Ah, my fellow ATS poster, are we not all on this planet together, breathing its air and drinking its water--how can it not affect each one of us personally?

I guess i did not agree as much as i intended to. It is not that i do not think we should respect the environment we are all part off but that i think the best way to do so is to go forward boldly and SOLVE the problems massive energy consumption will/might result in. Avoiding that challenge - our destiny- will surely doom us in the long run if we choose to avoid the problems by restricting ourselves ( technological and spiritual progress) and consigning large parts of the world to starvation and worse.

Stellar

I’ll betcha this Order from Geo W on advice of AG Gonzales, will terminate all pending prosecutions of industry for Clean Air Act violations! Sort of a fringe benefit available only to the R&Fs. Rich and Famous. A/K/A Republicans. Thank you Red State types.

What is a "Red State type"? And are you saying that only Republicans are rich and famous? Why must you bring that attitude to the discussion?

Originally posted by donwhite
I’ll betcha this Order from Geo W on advice of AG Gonzales, will terminate all pending prosecutions of industry for Clean Air Act violations! Sort of a fringe benefit available only to the R&Fs. Rich and Famous. A/K/A Republicans.

Have you found any source evidence to confirm or back that "I'll betcha this order" yet, donwhite?

Thank you Red State types.

Here's a thought: how about do not "thank" (blame) the "Red State types" till your "I'll betcha" is more than what it is currently: a speculative assumption, you think?






seekerof

Isn't the richest man in the world, Bill Gates, a Democrat?

So there goes your only republicans are rich. Although you can say only republicans blame anyone but the people responsible because they worship the people responsible. Hmmm, high oil prices while oil men sit in the WH, must be Enviromentalists!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by marg6043
This is another make believe attempt to the public to show that he is doing something while his fellow Republicans are biting their nails because the popularity of Bush is failing.

He is not attacking the real issue about the oil companies in the US.

He will not because you do not bite the hand that feed you.

Oil companies are controlling the refine of crude and like that control the depending on demand.

They can make demands to get higher while refining less oil.

They get money trough incentives and tax brakes.

They actually get rewarded for their practices.

Oil companies will keep pushing their business way of dealing with demand until they get the desirable prices on gas even if the price of crude roles back.

They are setting the new high on gas prices to be the new standard for the hole nation.

Agree completely.

Not only that but the admin is preparing for Iran and this is subliminal warnings of a major increase in gas prices.

Be prepared people currency will fail soon, buy gold now!

".... And what about the politicians who failed to fund alternative energy initiatives...except by way of fraudulent incentives to big oil?"

REPLY: Our tax dollars have been funding research on alternatives since the early 1970's. And what the heck is a "fraudulent incentive?"

".... I was waiting for the blame game to start. ANWR will only produce at most 1.5 mill/bar a day."

REPLY: Shale oil alone, in the US, is estimated at one trillion barrels; ANWR could be another Saudi Arabia, and the 1.5 Million barrel per day is pure speculation. People all over old europe are whining, too.... but that's what you get for allowing Socialist/Marxist economies/governments.

".... I'm going to need it! Just when we were making progress on air quality. First warm day, gray air. First hot day, brown air....."

REPLY: Obviously you've done no research. The air in America is cleaner now than it was in the late 1800's. By the way.... recent evidence from the TYROS2 satellite, launched in the mid 70's, shows only a

".... Like the 5.5 Tons of coc aine found on a plane owned by Republican Officials, used to get Bin Laden family out of country after 9/11, and used by GWB when he was Gov. of Texas, google? Nothing on it, still! "

REPLY: Ummm, because it's crap-ola? I see where ex-president wandering weenie had his nose rebuilt from his use, and where 30% of the people he gave pardons to were involved in coc aine.

".... instead of wasting time and money to try and drill in a place where it is illegal to drill?

REPLY: It's not illegal to drill there; see my previous about ex-President Peanut.

".... AFTER all humans are living above the bread line...."

REPLY: We pay them to be poor, or they want to be. There's nothing stopping the mentally and physically able from making as much income as they want. 53% of the "poor" own their own home, have cable TV, at least one DVD player, etc, etc.

".... we are an overdeveloped country."

REPLY: Who help to feed and cloth one-third of the world.
America? Overdeveloped? 9% of Africa is "wilderness", while over 22% of America is.

".... Are they the ones buying SUVs?

REPLY: Yes, while they try and tell YOU what to drive.

".... Do they own any politician sitting in the White House as we speak?"

REPLY: Yes! And ex-White House inhabitants, too. Watch for Algore's new (ficticious) "documantary" soon to be released.

".... In each instance, the firms chose strategies they thought would maximize their profits."

REPLY: Ask the common man and retired people if they hate that idea. Progfits are what pay for exploration, drilling and refining.

".... without true security of health and general wellfare."

REPLY: It's not governments job to supply that. This is not France, Germany, or any other Socialist/Marxist country.

".... It saddens me that our great nation with all its great technological advances is not a world leader in new ideas."

REPLY: We still are, and it was Bush who proposed the future use of Helium3, two shuttles of which could power the entire USA for one year.

".... solve the problems massive energy consumption."

REPLY: We cannot solve ourselves out of the situation by reducing consumption. Besides, no-one seems to remember that thousands of other things come from a barrel of oil. Take an hour or three and write down everything in your home that's made of plastic.

".... will terminate all pending prosecutions of industry for Clean Air Act violations!"

REPLY: Because of the infrastructure invested by all those greedy capitolists, there's been a huge reduction in CAV's. Again, America's air is cleaner now than before the Industrial Revolution.

Is Bush just a big pile af crap or what? I think I can smell his stench from here. Now we have to have inferior gas, another problem created while ignoring the other problem. Oil companys will still get their record profits this way, and we get to screw the environment even more as a bonus. I think I'm going to have a septic truck dump sewage in Mr. presidents swiming pool and see if he gets the picture. "There Bush swim in that, we get to breath filthy oil air, so now we are even."

Bush has oil ties, what the hell is he really going to do about this situation?

In the short term we may need to use oil, but we need to seriously push for the alternative fuels, and cleaner solutions. So we (the world) can eventually tell the Oil World Order to kiss our rosy red ..... Oil is such a control mechanism, but we can be free from it; all we have to do is have vision and push our visions to reality.

Troy

zappafan1:

Obviously you've done no research. The air in America is cleaner now than it was in the late 1800's.

Haha! Do you have any environmental research data to back up your assertion, Doctor? Because that's the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. Have you ever heard of chloro-fluorocarbons?

PEOPLE own the oil companies; retired people.... people with IRA's, and investments; not Bush, Cheney or the republicans in control of congress.

No, Bush and Cheney didn’t OWN oil companies, they only RAN them. Condoleeza Rice never OWNED an oil company, she only worked at one in a high position and had a TANKER named after her. You crack me up, man.

".... the levels of arsenic, mercury, PCB, and other contaminants...."

REPLY: Every one of those is down at least 40%. Also, isn't it odd that much of the concentrations of Mercury are in area's where there are no people, cities or industry???

Arsenic, mercury and PCBs are down 40%? REALLY?! Again, I would appreciate a link, unless this is fantasy that originated in your own brain (which is my suspicion). Link please.

Also, a link showing that concentrations of mercury are highest in non-populated areas would be cool too. I mean, nobody is living at the bottom of the ocean and fish still have high levels of mercury poisoning down there. Is that what you mean? 

Do you understand that things that you pollute the environment with actually TRAVEL?

".... Anyone that buys the oil companies propaganda and thinks clear air laws are to blame really need some help."

REPLY: BS!

A well thought out and concise answer. Link?

Even a minor amount of research will show that very little land in America is suitable for growing sugarcane.

Link please. Also, other grains other than sugarcane can make ethanol.

The same was said about Pudroe Bay, and it's crap-ola! The Caribou herd tripled in size; animals are using the pipeline to ptotect themselves from predators

LOL, where do you get these stats? Animals use the OIL PIPELINE to protect themselves from predators? Bwahahah! Link please, oh pretty please.

REPLY: You're ignoring the fact that no one in the Whitehouse is still in the oil business.

Um, the VP still makes money from Halliburton from his 2 million dollars of stock options. Try again.

PS. Frank Zappa would be sick to his stomach to see someone saying things that you are saying and having his name.

Hey Zappa, looks like ou did the ol Republican trick. Lie lie lie then run away when confronted by a democrat. It is good excercise I guess with all the running republicans have to do when their lies are exposed but still pretty weak.

Yeah, wow, where did he go.

He totally Speedy Gonzalesed us.