Berlin Wall Type Defense is the only proven way to keep mexicans out of US

apc
We should if they were given amnesty. I reiterate, all my suggestions only apply to illegal aliens that have been given the gift of amnesty.

Once they are made into citizens, they are citizens. You can't make it 'conditional'.

If the intention is to treat them as special people by providing them with a special teacher

How about we just treat citizens like citizens and human beings like human beings?
If we have a population of people that don't speak enlgish as their native language, and we want them to speak english, they we're going ot have to accomodate having ESL type classes in public schools.

, just a quick verification of identity before providing social services

But you can't use a driver's license for this, adn you can't use a social security card for this, and people can't carry around their birth certificates in their wallets, so.....what exactly is proposed?
The next time that you are in a hospital ER, do you really want to have to prove your citizenship? When you go to the DMV to renew your car registration, or go to the ATM, do you want to have to produce your birthcerfiticate?

If the patient is an alien who remains illegal, hospitals should be permitted to notify authorities just as they are if a gunshot or drug overdose comes in

And then people wont go to the hospitals, disease will spread, and then we've got an real problem.

As long as they are not committing a crime by doing so.

Fine enough with me. The whole thing can be easily solved by removing the immigration quotas, having a more open, though better patrolled, border, and being quicker in processing new immigrants.

Absolutely it should be conditional. Sure, give them amnesty, but their citizenship must be a form similar to that of a convicted felon.

They have committed a very serious (in my opinion) crime by coming here illegally. They must not be permitted to just walk away from it as if it never happened. Something must be permanently engraved into their forehead (in the form of a criminal record...) that says "I came here illegally and hid long enough to be tolerated."

I'm all for having a special class thats sole purpose is to teach Spanish speaking children the English language. But I refuse to pay for it with my tax dollars. If the parents won't learn English and teach it to their kids, let them pay the teacher's salaries. When parents want special education needs fullfilled, there's a place to go: private school.

You may not need a birth certificate to get your tags renewed, but you do need it to get your license renewed. In my state you need a birth certificate/passport, copy of a utility bill or bank statement showing address, and a social security card.

Again, the fact that the subject person committed a crime must not be just magically swept away. They broke the law coming here. A huge number of them were in line at the welfare office the day after they arrived. At my local welfare office, the receptionist is bilingual, because, from what I could tell the last time I took my former roommate there, most of the recipients only speak Spanish.

And as far as hospitals, people who have been shot in a drug deal gone bad, or shot up too much, or whatever... Unless they are incredably stupid (which, in retrospect, they probably are...), they are fully aware that shortly after they are admitted, they will be speaking with a cop. They still go to the hospital, don't they? This would still only apply to the illegal aliens that are still illegal, meaning they either didn't meet the conditions of the amnesty or they are new arrivals.

Absolutely we need immigration reform, BUT these people are criminals. Plain and simple, black and white. The seriousness of the crime warrants permanent recognition of that crime. For them to be given all the rights and benefits of someone who came here legally is outrageous.

posted by Nygdan

apc
We should if they were given amnesty . . my suggestions only apply to illegal aliens that have the gift of amnesty.

Once they are made citizens, they are citizens. You can't make it 'conditional’ . .

I hold to the same position that once a citizen always a citizen. I hold to the position that a natural born citizen cannot be disenfranchised. I also see merit in a person holding a dual citizenship in the modern world of 2006.

OTOH, those we put in charge of things see it differently. Taking back citizenship is usually done when an applicant is convicted of making a material mis-statement on his initial application. Like the Ukraine guy in Ohio who was hustled out of the US bereft of his citizenship only to have the Israeli court find him innocent. And there was strong evidence the US DoJ had falsified the case against the man here. But what’s a dumb Ukraine-type to do?

The Constitution mentions citizenship only in conjunction with the qaulfications of the members of Congress and in the President’s case, adding that he must be “natural born.” As opposed to coming out of the forehead of Zeus?

The only other reference is in the 14th Amendment, Section 1. “All persons born or naturalized in the United States . . are citizens of the United Stats . . ‘ Although most people say this creates 2 classes of citizenship, I hold it merely states two ways you can possess one thing, citizenship. 1 class.

This issue arose often during the Vietnam War period when many people left the country and some of them renounced their citizenship. After the War ended, many of them wanted to return.

How about we just treat citizens like citizens and human beings like human beings? If we have people that don't speak English and we want them to speak English, we're going to have ESL classes in public schools. The whole thing can be easily solved by removing the immigration quotas, having a more open, though better patrolled, border, and being quicker in processing new immigrants.“ [Edited by Don W]

Absolutely


[edit on 4/22/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by craig732
So we should just rescind all the immigration laws and let everyone come as they wish?

Sure, why not? Short of criminals, why the heck not?

Because our country would never be able to support the influx of people with our current infrastructure.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by craig732or whatever to keep the "enemy" out.

Since when are mexicans the enemy?

If you read my post again you will see I was not calling the Mexicans the enemy. I was refering to Afghanastan and Iraq, and if you notice I put the word enemy in quotation marks indicating I was using the word facetiously.

[edit on 22-4-2006 by craig732]

or, instead of finding a short-term solution by building a wall or arresting everyone and sending them back to mexico (both of which spending millions, even billions in potential taxpayer money), what if the government just pressed mexico's government to reform so mexicans don't have motivation to come over here? wouldn't that be the cheapest, easiest, and most diplimatic option? people are so wrapped up in racial stereotypes that mexicans are poor and whatever, but it's not like it's their fault, it's the mexican economy's. if their problems were solved, ours would be too.

Originally posted by Ender
or, instead of finding a short-term solution by building a wall or arresting everyone and sending them back to mexico (both of which spending millions, even billions in potential taxpayer money), what if the government just pressed mexico's government to reform so mexicans don't have motivation to come over here? wouldn't that be the cheapest, easiest, and most diplimatic option? people are so wrapped up in racial stereotypes that mexicans are poor and whatever, but it's not like it's their fault, it's the mexican economy's. if their problems were solved, ours would be too.

Thank You, Ender. But pearls to swine is not the way. We can only hope for backbone in DC...........................

V. Fox has his country running along on two cylinders and is getting great mileage to boot from his export business to the good ol' USA. It seems the demagoguery is getting in the way in this debate. Mexico is producing the 14th largest GDP, right below Canada..... (why we got NAFTA???) which spells bad news for the ever-loving material- sucking USA. We love cheap stuff. Low wages and high profits for the LORDS who lord over the pitiful poor in the NIKE works. The US has to discourage the hiring of illeagals, give tax breaks to coporations for incentive to keep AMERICANS in jobs here, instead of down under...a wall will not work. A wall and 2000 more border ptrls, and some military sprinkled in will.....