Do you even AIM to nail the cure to CANCER?

Check this out, here is a very simple explanation that will show everybody exactly why a Cure for CANCER is still a mystery to SCIENCE.

The Art of Drug Development

The basic philosophy of modern chemotherapy development can be understood by way of an analogy: During the American Revolution, when distant troops needed to communicate, a message was sent by messenger on horseback, who carried it some distance and then passed it to another rider who did the same. This relay was continued until the message reached its destination. For the enemy to stop a message from being received, all that was required was to stop any one of the riders along the chain. Anti-cancer drug development is very much like this. In order to understand how this is true though, it is first necessary to understand cellular communications.
Communications within the cell (intracellular communications) is achieved through a series of proteins called a signaling pathway; one protein carries the message to another protein, which then carries the message to the next. This relay continues until the message reaches its destination. Intracellular communication in this manner is vital to all cellular functions, including cell division.

In normal, healthy cells, the intracellular signaling pathways controlling cellular division are activated from outside the cell, through complex communications with other cells (extracellular communications). The needs of the other cells in the surrounding tissue helps to determine whether or not an individual cell will divide. If the extracellular control over cell division is blocked for any reason, the cell may become autonomous, and can begin to divide independently of the others around it. The intracellualar messages may still be telling the cell to divide, even when it is detrimental to the surrounding tissue. This can lead to tumor formation. Because these cells no longer respond to extracellular communications, we must target intracellular communications if we are to stop tumor formation and progression. To accomplish this, we can choose one of the proteins in the signalling pathway and we develop drugs to stop it from carrying the message to the next protein. In effect we “shoot” the messenger.

Developing the “bullets” (drugs) with which to shoot these messengers is complicated by the fact that healthy cells utilize many of the same messengers that healthy cells use. These messengers are required for healthy cells in the body to survive. If we target messengers that are found in healthy and tumor cells in comparable amounts, we will also kill healthy cells. The goal is to target messengers that occur exclusively or predominantly in tumor cells. Another complicating factor is that healthy cells contain many other intracellular signaling pathways besides those controlling cellular division, but which are still essential for survival. The messengers in these pathways share many similarities with messengers we are trying to stop. Therefore the drug must possess a high degree of selectivity towards our target. In addition, the body has developed critical defenses for protection against the many chemicals found in the environment. An effective drug must be capable of circumventing these defenses; otherwise it will be destroyed before reaching its target. Finally, the drug must not be too large, as it will have difficulty crossing the cell membrane and finding its target. These are the major considerations we face in trying to develop drugs to treat cancer patients.

--------------------

Source

I wonder if the people that have focused their research towards the advancement of the "terminator technology" which causes a seed to basically self destruct after one growing season to guarantee that the FARMERS are also 100% hooked on 'their' products , will ever brainstorm a solution that would somehow "shoot a deadly messenger" to keep the disease from destroying the lives of Billions of other, people.
Or maybe even something to make the "deadly messenger" quit reaching it's target, considering who deployed IT.
Do you think as brazen as science has become with destroying human beings, it's because they already have a cure for everything but they don't want us to have it right now, because they see 'us' as the disease and it would just keep more people alive longer and THAT is 'their' only problem?

Or is it that they are TRULY USELESS and can't NAIL or discover anything other than a perfect way to silently and mythodically murder people while they are standing right in front of their faces ?
... busy serving JUSTICE!

I'm pretty sure they could shoot a messenger if they wanted to, what do you think?

I AM ready to DEAL with FRANKENSCIENCE and the TERMINATOR technology !

Seriously, you know that the PTB are taking us where 'they' would like to be, or to a point where they are satisfied with their level of power and ability to control people.

Where do you think SCIENCE is taking all of US, since the threat of wide spread disease is an attack that we are already experiencing?

If we could just discuss some of these MONSTROUS potentials, it wouldn't be such a big deal anymore. At least people would have a chance to see science for what 'it' is and address the situation from that aspect.

I guess science wanted it so that people would't have an opinion on the experiment they are conducting. C'mon ya'll!

Anybody have an educated guess about the evolution we are experiencing and why they are influencing people with so many diseases?
It can't be all about money, they had to have some idea of what they though would come out of all of this war and diseased people in the future.

Even if they could make their own children immune, there is no way they could escape the surroundings of the suffering environment they are intentionally motivating. I guess it's important to understand what they could have possibly gained by taking this route and working to find a way to control the population by deploying their own diseases. Maybe we could figure it out what they wanted and possibly STOP them from destroying us, it's not as if they aren't working on how to MAKE that happen already!

The AMA - Meanest Monopoloy Ever Organized!

I guess that was about the same topic... is it that hard to discuss this issue?




[edit on 17-4-2006 by Contentious]

Consider this fact: Intellectual Property Protection on Pharmaceuticals is no different than any other IP protection. 20 years from the date of application. Most clinical trials take between 5 and 10 years, eating up half the commercial life of a drug before it even comes to market. With such a small window of profitable opportunity are you even surprised that pharmaceutical research does not seek to cure diseases, but to merely treat them?

If international IP protection provided an avenue of profit for 20, 30, or 50 years instead of the

Frankly, I'm amazed that chemotherapy is even legal. The cure is worse than the cancer, literally. I can't believe the medical profession considers chemotherapy to be suitable for human, or even animal, use.

Barbarians.

"If international IP protection provided an avenue of profit for 20, 30, or 50 years instead of the

Um... did you people even read the article? If you have studied any Biochemistry, or even basic Organic Chemistry, you would realize how much of an absolute miracle these discoveries are. And, yes, I have a degree in Chemistry. I am a Chemist. I go to work during the day, then I come home and hang with my wife and kids, like any other scientists does. I like to play the guitar and listen to 50's through 70's rock. However, I don't sit around in a dimly-lit lab with my white labcoat on, while rubbing my palms together, laughing my head off with an unconscious girl strapped to my experimentation table.

I enjoy Analytical Chemisty. I take things and find out how much of something is in it.

How much arsenic is in our drinking water?

How much of a particular toxin got into this batch of potato chips? (actually happened)

How much water-soluble protein can be found in these latex gloves using the Modified Lowry Assay found in ASTM procedure D5712-99? (a procedure that I have performed, which is important to do so that you don't produce gloves that will cause allergies to patients or users)

I also like to analyze data supplied by analysis machines so I can determine what compounds constitute a mixture, so that proper procedures can be taken to destroy them if they are harmful to living organisms. Chemistry labs have EXTREMELY tight regulations on how to dispose of EVERY SINGLE KIND of chemical, and HUGE fines and penalties are imposed on those that don't follow through.

I like to test gas masks and biosuits to make sure they actually protect you from chemicals and biohazards. THIS IS WHAT I DO AT MY JOB!

I AM SO EVIL! THIS IS MY WILL TO DESTROY!!! You guys are a bunch of morons if you think all scientists, or even a small portion, are hell-bent on destruction.

By the way, this article presents nothing new. It is not a discovery of a sadistic plot. This is stuff that was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association decades ago, which is not a secret journal. You can read it at your library.

So far, professional-level biochemists have a good understanding of how cells work within themselves, and a moderate understanding of how cells work together with other cells. They have learned how each molecule within a cell reacts (chemical mechanisms) and even its distict shape, which is critical to know.

One point that this article emphasizes is that cancer cells have a broken "off switch" and they don't stop multiplying. This is advantageous for treatment. One of the first anti-cancer treatments was a platinum complex (cis-diamminedichloroplatinum[II], or cisplatin) that binds to each strand of DNA in a cell, which stops it from splitting. The bad side is that it can occur in any cell in the body that has its DNA uncoiled, which is a very small part of the time. The good side is that cancer cell DNA is almost always uncoiled, and so it is very selective towards killing cancer cells over normal cells. Alas, it is unfortunate that healthy cells are killed in the process, making the treatee sick. However, this has saved lives. Here is a link to a PROFESSIONAL PEER-REVIEWED ARTICLE, PUBLISHED BY THE AMERICAN CHEMICAL SOCIETY. It is not the original work of the original molecule, but it is a later refinement.

pubs.acs.org...

The MAIN reason that we haven't come up with a cure that 100% targets cancer cells and 100% leaves other cells alone is that...

(drum roll please)

... Cancer cells are still human cells! They have all the same components and make-up as the cells around them. They have the same protein structures and the same enzymes and the same DNA.

Something to note: Pharmeceutical companies are profit-driven. Which can lead to greed and dishonesty (*cough*MERCK!*cough*PFIZER!*cough). However, independent scientists that conduct anti-cancer research have to JUMP THROUGH HOOPS for funding. These are true scientists that, MORE THAN MONEY, want their name in a professional journal, like the JACS I mentioned earlier. The two most important things for a true scientist are
(1) Publication and fame for the thing they discovered, and
(2) Fame for their ethics, integrity and honesty in what they have published. Once in a while you get a jackass who fudges or even makes up data to get a result that makes him look good. Most of the time they are caught. An exteme few are not caught. Something like the Cure for Cancer would be so scrutinized that there would be no chance in someone faking it and getting credit for it.

Anyway, this article is simply calling out for people to start studying the things that cancer cells do outside of themselves so that other treatments can be developed. Well, guess what, they've been doing that, but you won't see anyone on ATS admit that its going on. They have been conducting research on certain enzymes and protein structures that the cancer cell sends out to "prime" a new site for it to travel to and start a new cancer colony. They have been working on a way to either catch these "primers" before they land at the destined site, or to catch them once they have landed. I have even heard talk about research being done to even prevent the formation of these "primers."

So, Mr. Contentious, Mr. Anti-Science... why in the name of Zeus are you using a computer? Smash it up! Burn the little pieces! You will experience the consequence of what science has done! Flush your mouse down the toilet! Smash your TV! Stop using paper! Quit brushing your teeth! Don't use anything that is made of metal, plastic, glass, or that conducts electricity! Don't eat food with preservatives! Don't use a refridgerator! Don't take medicine! Don't use synthetic fabrics! Don't live in a house built with tools or machinery! Because science is evil.

Here is a list of constructive things that science has designed:

Atomic energy used to power a city.
Nerve agents used to kill bugs.
Jellfied gasoline used to start fires in sub-zero temperature.

Here is a list of destructive things that are a-hole versions of constructive things:

Atomic bombs designed to kill entire nations/planets
Nerve agents used to kill people
Jellified gasoline used to kill people

Not all scienctists are evil. The overwhelming majority of them are good honest people discover a new, interesting principle that can be used to benefit humanity. Some jerk comes along and makes a weapon out of it, and all of a sudden, people say that the original inventor was the evil one.

Research scientists don't make that much money, even though they have the most mentally demanding jobs you could imagine. Green Day writes a thirty-second, three-chord song about how much they hate America, and they make $20 million off of it, while a scientist takes 10 years to develop a nuclear magnetic resonance spectrometer, and they only get their name written in a magazine and a little plaque for their wall. You wanna talk about misplaced priorities and corporate money-making scams now?

[edit on 18-4-2006 by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama]

"How much arsenic is in our drinking water? "
How high will the level of contaminants get before one of you are smart enough to quit measuring it and do somthing to STOP it ?

"Chemistry labs have EXTREMELY tight regulations on how to dispose of EVERY SINGLE KIND of chemical, and HUGE fines and penalties are imposed on those that don't follow through. "

What ? Huge fines and penalties are imposed someone IF they turn themselves in on 'the honor system'.
www.whitehouse.gov...

"EPA carries out a significant portion of its mission through the Operating Program, which includes its core responsibilities for regulatory development, enforcement, research, and program grants to states."
"The program guarantees results, by eliminating costly regulation, litigation, inspection, and enforcement actions. As a result, industry compliance has been nearly 100 percent."

This and other agencies may have written some EXTREMELY tight regulations, but they somehow thought it would be a good idea to not waste money on ENFORCEMENT REGULATION or INSPECTIONS.
They just keep an eye on their 'overall' environmental results, while the same government keeps locking down people.
Do you know what they did about the chemical that is destructive to the strastopheric ozone layer? They stopped production and distribution then adopted regulations that only a DAMN FOOL would spend the money to follow. So now, everybody that discontinues use of the machines that use this freon just DUMP them, or release the chemicals into the atmosphere to be replaced by the new 'safer' products. The EPA made no attempt to limit the destruction of the ozone layer from this ONE chemical , eventhough they KNEW exactly what was destroying it, and they KNEW how many tons had the potential of being released. And they KNOW that less than 5% of this product has been turned in for recyclying.
The ONDCP and everybody else that write the 'policies' and regulatory guidelines that apply to SCIENCE and the ENVIRONMENT... have no enforcement, prevention, or division of intelligence, what so ever.
Science and the entire chemical and petro-chemcial industry have been using the "honor system" for so many years, that our level of exposure to deadly toxins is a mystery that could not be solved if it ALL came to a STOP NOW.
Do you know how bad that is for U S ?
Maybe you have been testing a suit to wrap the future of this Earth in ?
Grab a fire blanket , quick.


"I like to test gas masks and biosuits to make sure they actually protect you from chemicals and biohazards. THIS IS WHAT I DO AT MY JOB! "

See if you can contact a 'research' scientist and ask them if they have something to protect themselves from THIS disease.

"I AM SO EVIL! THIS IS MY WILL TO DESTROY!!! You guys are a bunch of morons if you think all scientists, or even a small portion, are hell-bent on destruction. "

You are a moron if you think any of us believe that ALL scientist are hell-bent. If a small portion of them had not infected the rest of you then you wouldn't have an excuse for why you were all STUPID enough to allow FORMALDEHYDE to keep being dumped into our FOOD.

"The MAIN reason that we haven't come up with a cure that 100% targets cancer cells and 100% leaves other cells alone is that...
(drum roll please)
... Cancer cells are still human cells! They have all the same components and make-up as the cells around them. They have the same protein structures and the same enzymes and the same DNA. "

GONG !

If science was smart enough or capable of producing a 100% guaranteed cure they would NOT give it to these people. Nothing that science may or may not be trying to 'perfect' would threaten the multi-billion dollar CANCER TREATMENT industry. "They" are not going to save dying people because some other SICK people won't make as much MONEY.

"The two most important things for a true scientist are
(1) Publication and fame for the thing they discovered, and
(2) Fame for their ethics, integrity and honesty in what they have published."

See if you can find one to publish this statement::
FORMALDEHYDE SHOULD ONLY BE POURED INTO DEAD PEOPLE.
NOT! in almost every diet beverage and 'sugar-free' food that LIVE people are constantly EATING.

"Once in a while you get a jackass who fudges or even makes up data to get a result that makes him look good. Most of the time they are caught. An exteme few are not caught"

Once in a while?
This reports sounds like a pack of monkeys playing with their POO !
See if you can contact one of those "enforcerment people" and have someone dispatched to the scene of the MONKEY FUNKIN" A FOOTBALL- FUDGE FESTIVAL. All the "extremely tight" authorities have to do is OPEN THIS DOOR!!! . Any fool , any fool can see this is NOT acceptable.
Science isn't smart enough to go back and check on the effects of this MAN"S SOLUTION to EXTERMINATE himself ?

"So, Mr. Contentious, Mr. Anti-Science... why in the name of Zeus are you using a computer? Smash it up! Burn the little pieces! You will experience the consequence of what science has done! Flush your mouse down the toilet! Smash your TV! Stop using paper! Quit brushing your teeth! Don't use anything that is made of metal, plastic, glass, or that conducts electricity! Don't eat food with preservatives! Don't use a refridgerator! Don't take medicine! Don't use synthetic fabrics! Don't live in a house built with tools or machinery! Because science is evil. "

I'm LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU MR !! You think I am concerned about destroying the positive aspects of science? People are not dying and under constant threat from diseases because of people like Bill Gates. I'm not "anti-science", I am looking for MY Creator, the MEN who intentionally pump DEATH into our environment and even directly into my family's FOOD!
I'm trying to HELP some of you people,, you don't understand what EVIL is.

"You wanna talk about misplaced priorities and corporate money-making scams now? "

This is your new priority, see how many scientist are willing to seperate themselves from MAD-SCIENCE and make a "good" group effort to STOP the FORMALDEHYDE from going into approx. 6000 different CONSUMABLE products.
The only THING stopping them from doing this, is because they are scared to prove their MASTER intentionally did something extremely WRONG.
Then and only then, will science be anything more than the most intelligent group of people who bowed down to a MAN that they KNEW was responsible for putting FORMALDEHYDE into thier OWN FOOD.

Everything else they have been looking for and everything else that potentially exist in this world could be obtained AFTER this chemical assault has ended.
IF science can cure the disease it has become to all of US.

See if you can find any scientist 'friends' that are willing to participate in this discussion or an effort to save their own brilliant assess from certain death.

"I am a Chemist. I go to work during the day, then I come home and hang with my wife and kids, like any other scientists does"

Well then eventho' I have to be a grasshole to get my point across YOU should be able to understand my intentions. Just like every other scientist or 'intelligent' person that I may have insulted so far.

When we stop this chemical from going into our bodies, we are going to have to change EVERYTHING.
I'm just trying to do it right with no chance of failure.

There IS a better way.

I think two important points are brought up here:

1) The Cure to Cancer may not be a Cure at all per se, but instead an avoidance of certain cancer causing toxins (bad mojo) and an accumulation of beneficial compounds (good mojo). Once you get your mojo ratio right, cancer may never precipitate in the body. To extend this logic, there is no point in searching for a pharmaceutical "cure" for cancer because without cleaning the environment in which humans metabolize and avoiding the bad mojo that is initiating cancerous growth, there's no point.

2) Concerning research funding...should the Intellectual Property system be modified to allow for a more long-term profit on 'Cure Technologies' it would not be surprising to see Merck, Phizer, etc. throw gobs of money into the hands of the "good scientists" (assuming there are bad and good varieties out there)...basically throw so much money at so many different angles that you can't help but stumble upon something beneficial.

Now, if you want to get funky and start looking at the whole thing from a conspiracy point of view, consider the possiblity that there is a large scale conspiracy to cause cancer. Maybe big-pharma knows what toxins out there are likey to kick off malignant growth, but since their pockets are lined by the same investors who line the pockets of the toxin manufacturers, they're not going to say a word. All the better if treatment medicine can be produced at considerable profit along the way. Or, maybe it's a conspiracy to toxify those who are most likely to enjoy longer life expectancies, people from industrialized nations, in order to curb overpopulation of the globe. Some on this board belive that use of DU in the Middle East is a long-term depopulation effort, why be so obvious about it as to have to explode a shell to kill people long-term. Maybe it'd be better to move in there, redesign Iraq's water purification facilities to use Flouride and rewrite clean water laws to ensure that enough nasty pours out of Iraqi taps to ensure malignant growth. Maybe we're doing it right now!

Anyway, back to sanity...maybe it's all for naught. We did JUST decode the human genome. Maybe we have a lot more to learn before conquering cancer is even within our grasp.

You know what, Contentious? i can see why you're fed up with established science, because it's their _______ duty to warn of such threats and use their influence to actually stop it, there is no excuse, of course and many people in so called regulating agencies are bullied and bribed into complicity with the industry. who's responsible, though, those who developed f-ex. aspartame or those who insist to use the government to put whatever they want into food and water?


===============
back on topic

The notion that cancer cells are still human cells and should be treated as such is VERY good to see (search for '714X'..). the problem with cancer is its parasitic nature, obviously, and putting stress on it just makes it more desperate for new nutrients, which are often taken off healthy cells. life tends to find ways, and if cancer is the result of an imbalance which makes cells mutate into something with a different metabolism, then introdocing more poison and stress (any conventional therapy) is self-defeating, as is shown daily, but millions of deaths are not enough to convince people that something's wrong with their therapies. like ritual sacrifice, deadly medicine is faithfully accepted as divine punishment.

We're all brainwashed to a lesser degree, accepting the unacceptable is all too easy when it's all you've ever known.

Originally posted by Long Lance
You know what, Contentious? i can see why you're fed up with established science, because it's their _______ duty to warn of such threats and use their influence to actually stop it, there is no excuse, of course and many people in so called regulating agencies are bullied and bribed into complicity with the industry. who's responsible, though, those who developed f-ex. aspartame or those who insist to use the government to put whatever they want into food and water?

That's what I am working on. I want to find somebody who is willing to accept responsibility for ANYthing at this point.
Science doesn't have the ability to accurately measure OUR level of exposure to hazardous materials because the EPA lets the industry operate and report their environmental pollution spills by the TON using "honor system". And they can get fined if they dump 'too much'.
It's about as effective at protecting our environment, as if the DEA let the drug traffic industry report their annual sales using the "honor system", and they could do whatever they damn well please as long as they don't tell the truth.
At some point the people who are supposed to be responsible for our lives, because they are paid extremely well to do so, have to acknowledge at least ONE of their mistakes. It's not as if they don't see the smoke screen right in front of their faces, smog covers this entire nation.
Is everybody blind ? When or where has this government acknowledged and gone back to correct any of the mistakes that have been made ?
It's like we are all stuck listening to the media that the system controls describe the events taking place at the MONKEY FUNKIN" A FOOTBALL FESTIVAL, nobody can hide from the ignorance and this insane governmental process that we are allowing to consume our lives.

It is a crying ass shame that nobody with the USG or an 'educated' man of science or technology is willing to face the fact that we are killing ourselves and everybody is waiting for "something or somebody else" to prevent their children from being suffocated in their own ignorance. NO MAN has been willing to accept responsibility for his own future.
I'll PAY FOR IT ! I can suffer through anything. I can deal with the punishment of changing your world instead of watching you destroy it.
I would be more than happy to suffer for the mistakes that I make, instead of everybody else suffering for what MAN has already done to US.

How could anyone or anything ever get through to science and get them or this 'system' to change from destruction to 'rescue' mode?
I'm gonna have to get stupid about it eventually to make sure my "desire to save" starts eating through their machine. I can't make matters any worse and I can't handle the consequences of doing nothing either.

like ritual sacrifice, deadly medicine is faithfully accepted as divine punishment.

Science and Medicine won't want to accept the divine punishment for the consequences of the death of the natural existence of this Earth either, because "financial restrictions" is not an excuse for sacrificing one person, much less humanity and life in general.
But they are going to get it, just like they dished it out.


Folsom Prison Blues

I am often amazed at the cynical nature of people around the efforts of big pharma when it comes to finding therapeutics of interest.

I direct a lab that is involved in the development of assays designed to assist biopharm companies in monitoring the affect of their therapeutics, either via direct measurement of the compound's activities/binding or via secondary or "downstream" effects the therapeutic might have. This may also involve the measurement of parameters that would provide some prognostic assessment of how well the subject will respond to the treatment once data is collected and reviewed against their clinical response.

I can tell you that we do not work 10-12 hours per day in frivolous pursuit. We make it our business to understand the cell biology, both at a functional and molecular level, in order to fully understand the target of these therapeutics and then come up with new assays or approaches to exploit the technology we use to aid these pharmaceutical companies in their pursuit. It would be plainly obvious to those that work in the field if these companies were just spending hundreds of millions of dollars every year as a smokescreen.

The targets described by the article quoted by the OP are part of what we work on, looking for those protein kinases that are aberrantly running either wide open or are not functioning properly to allow the cell to recognize its normal lifecycle and enter apoptosis and ultimately cell death.

I don't post often because I just do not prescribe to the overwhelming amount of conspiracy and narrow-mindedness I read in some of these threads. However, to suggest a broad-based conspiracy by big pharma to keep their profit engine running by keep people ill on purpose is just a tad bit whacked.

But as is the case with everyone here...this is just my opinion.

Originally posted by Contentious
Seriously, you know that the PTB are taking us where 'they' would like to be, or to a point where they are satisfied with their level of power and ability to control people.

Have to agree with you here. Science would want the human animal healthy during its work life but to die soon after retiring so that it is not a drain on the system.

The rich and elites would want to live forever so that their system can come to fruition and they can maximize the payback for their investment in selfish ways.

From what I can see the plan is working like a swiss made watch.

Woah woah... okay. Stop there.

Slight gripe from the science columb here.

Please stop referring to science as if its one big organisation with one mind. Science is a study, not an organisation.

Last thing I need is someone trying to blame me for their health because of some small machine I designed, because technically, I am a scientist.

So please, if you really want to pin the blame on Conglomerate Medical Corporations, PLEASE SAY CONGLOMERATE MEDICAL CORPORATIONS!

Thankyou.