Two ways to fix the U.S's problems (imo)

Originally posted by supergeo

First, we need to reduce our national debt. We need to stop forgiving other country's debts! They pretty much just borrow from us what they want, and never pay us back, and we forgive their debts! We need to stop taking on the world's debt and making it our own.

How would you feel if China called in our debt to them? This is a much more complex problem and needs more than a simplistic approach.
In general, I heartily agree with you that we need to reduce our national debt and I think it could be accomplished with a flat tax that also applied to the large corporations so that they couldn't weasel out of paying their fair share thru loopholes and offshore accounts.

posted by whaaa

posted by supergeo

First, we need to reduce our national debt.
[Edited by Don W]

(1) How would you feel if China called in our debt? This is a much more complex problem and needs more than a simplistic approach. (2) I agree we need to reduce our national debt and I think it could be accomplished with a (3) flat tax that also applied to the large corporations so that they couldn't weasel out of paying their fair share thru (4) loopholes and offshore accounts.
[Edited by Don W]

(1) America’s long term debt is in the form of 10, 20 and 30 year Treasury bonds. Buyers can’t “call” those early. Short term debt is anything from overnight out to 180 days in so-called “T” bills. Without knowing, I think China’s holdings are probably in long term bonds.

The US 20 year bond is still regarded as the world’s “benchmark” of debt. As also is the US dollar the world’s currency; for how much longer both remain true I dare not guess. I suppose the main reason our debt mis-management has not caused the financial world to drop the US, is there is no other world currency or debt equal to the US in terms of quantity or quality. Did you know 40% of US currency circulates outside the US?

(2) Primarily because the baby-boomers will need borrowing to carry us over the 10-20 year “shortfall” in social security payout, it would have been wise to continue the Clinton tax strategy. That was abandoned, so we’ll have to manage some other way.

(3) I have addressed the flat tax in a prior post. I demonstrated how in practice, the “flat” tax is not flat. I regard the “flat tax” as one more shrewd way to lower the tax burden - already too low - on the R&Fs. The Rich and Famous. Pure public relations.

(4) The imposition of all taxes levied by the United States consumes 8 pages in the Internal Revenue Code. How to avoid those taxes takes up more than 2,000 pages in the same Code. Every one of those loopholes was put into the Code by some Member of Congress “responding” to his or her constituents. Whether or not money changed hands is up to you to guess. You might ask Randy Cunningham how that worked. I’m saying we are helpless and hopeless when it comes to fairly taxing the R&Fs, who are the very ones making the laws.

I vote Democratic knowing the Dems screw me 75% of the time, but the Republican screw me 100% of the time. Some choice.

Originally posted by donwhite
That was abandoned, so we’ll have to manage some other way.

Benefits will not be paid, is my guess. Either it needs more money into the system, or less 'product' out of the system, so we'll probably just cheat people out of the money they've paid into it.

Only rich people hire illegal workers

The average joe often makes use of illegal workers, in terms of labour for landscapping, even low level landscapping, and the like. Not to mention that a good number of peopel have moved up a tax bracket or two becuase of being able to employ illegal aliens in landscapping and local construction businesses. In a sense, the illegal alien represents an oppurtunity to the 'non rich and famous', because they can't otherwise afford to deal with all the entanglements of medical coverage and insurance and everything else you get with legal workers.

Is this just a sham put on us for some ulterior motive?

It really has to be, because the illegal 'issue' isn't new, and has been going on for a long time. Its only now, and largely because of Lou Dobbs using his show on CNN for the past several months to harp about it, that its become a 'national' issue.

whaa
so that they couldn't weasel out of paying their fair share thru loopholes and offshore accounts.

Why wouldn't they weasel out of it anyway? Or create more loopholes after the 'flat' tax is established? The system was relatively simple when it started, but got burdened with special qualifications for everything.

heartily agree with you that we need to reduce our national debt and I think it could be accomplished with a flat tax

In any accounting, a flat tax results in less taxes overall collected. A net loss in tax money. Hows that going to reduce the debt? If any one of us personally wanted to reduce our own debt, we'd try to make more money, and direct more of our money into paying off the debt.

I'd think that the simplest way to reduce the national debt would be to increase taxes and reduce spending on things other than the debt.

posted by Nygdan

posted by donwhite
That was abandoned, so we’ll have to manage some other way.

Benefits will not be paid, is my guess. Either it needs more money into the system, or less 'product' out of the system, so we'll probably just cheat people out of the money they've paid into it.

Only rich people hire illegal workers

The average joe uses illegal workers, labor for landscaping and the like. Not to mention a good number of people have moved up a tax bracket because of employing illegal aliens in landscaping and construction businesses . . illegal aliens represents an opportunity to the 'non rich and famous', because they can't otherwise afford to deal with all the entanglements of medical insurance and everything else you get with legal workers. [Edited by Don W]

Excellent points I had not considered. Although I still feel the number mentioned above are a small fraction of the numbers involved in agriculture and no, not cheap, in construction. By the bye, I happen to recall that in construction, because of the mechanic’s lien laws, it is necessary for every worker to sign off on his or her pay before lenders and title searchers will give their approving imprimaturs. It those documents are falsified, there is rampant fraud afoot! I smell a class action in the future.

Is this [illegals] just a sham put on us for some ulterior motive?

It really has to be, because the illegal 'issue' isn't new, and has been going on for a long time. Its only now largely because of Lou Dobbs using CNN for the past several months to harp about it, that it has become a 'national' issue.

You’re dead right about it not being a new item. When I first enrolled in college - mid 1950s, I subscribed to ‘The Nation’ magazine and it was a hot topic then. For the same reasons, the illegals were being victimized at every turn.

whaa
so that they couldn't weasel out of paying their fair share thru loopholes and offshore accounts.

Why wouldn't they weasel out of it anyway? Or create more loopholes after the 'flat' tax is established? The system was relatively simple when it started, but got burdened with special qualifications for everything.

In any accounting, a flat tax results in less taxes collected. A net loss in tax money. How’s that going to reduce the debt? If any one of us personally wanted to reduce our own debt, we'd try to make more money, and direct more of our money into paying off the debt.

And no less [revenue] as is the Republican mantra. Every problem facing our nation is solved by “tax cuts.”

Consider the current brouhaha over the estate tax. First, it does not apply to estates less than $1 million. Second, any estate or inheritance is a windfall to the recipient. What have they contributed to it, anyway? Third, as to the recipient, there has been no tax paid at all. That makes it better than capital gains which are taxed as low as 10% unless earned abroad and that has been reduced to 5%.

I'd think that the simplest way to reduce the national debt would be to increase taxes and reduce spending on things other than the debt.

There is not much discretionary spending left to cut if you ignore the Department of Defense. Surely you would not cut Medicaid or NIH or the already skimpy education aid budget to sustain a tax cut for the R&Fs? Or to buy one more supercarrrier?


[edit on 6/9/2006 by donwhite]