The driver DID shoot JFK in the head !!!!!

Originally posted by mr__black
I dont believe for 1 second that the driver shot kennedy...not one second.

Do you really think a grainy pic that you cant even make out that you have a to have a colour code for because its so fuzzy is the smoking gun in all this?

what about eye witnesses? there are no credible ones....Jackie has never blamed the driver, and she would have almost certainly seen him do it had he did...no doubt your reply to this willl be they "silenced" her. shes too high profile to put the scares on so that never happend.

a handgun wouldnt cause the damage to a head like that did, its obviously a rifle bullet.

and what about the other shots fired? where they all the driver missing the president from almost point blank? how rubbish a shot was he if it was him??!

this is an utter laughable explanation as to what happend

no offense but every point you have made here can easily be countered and you seem to have come from nowhere to make them.

Take Jackie for example: she knew her husband was a womanizer and she was raised in the elite world of rich men with mistresses. She has been around herself since then with equally 'hungry' men. Many have questioned her loyalty to JFK since the shooting and it is a fair criticism. The only way she would have spoken out if she had any qualms about the 'consortium' that took him out and then only on idealistic reasons. Jackie proved to the world afterward that her designer clothes and fast lifestyle was most important to her. Although I have to be fair in not knowing her that she may have loved JFK and was against what happened but felt powerless to do anything about it... a passiveness if you will. I can accept either argument here myself.

Originally posted by Prometheus3

I don't believe that for a minute. How does this explain Gov. Connally getting shot?.

[edit on 23-3-2006 by Prometheus3]

Good point but with all the potential people shooting that day it could have been easily taken care of.

Maybe that is who Oswald too out? Maybe he was never setup to shoot the president and when it went down they blamed the whole deal on him. If that happened then what a boot that was!

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Uh why would a guy trained to move away fast put on the brake??

Because he couldn't tell where the shots were coming from and rather than drive straight into a possible ambush coming from the railroad bridge ahead, his first instinct was to stop and get his bearings.

Everybody seems to forget that up until this time, it had been quite a while since anybody shot at a President. It's not like these days where it happens so much Bush doesn't even give speeches in public anymore.

Originally posted by metalmessiah
all of you need to find the documentary "beyond the magic bullet". this film proves beyond any doubt that the shots came from Oswald alone! these guys went to great lengths to try to duplicate the shot and even surprised themselves!

There's that logical flaw again! All they were able to establish was that it was possible for Owald to have fired three shots during the time period and get the job done. They didn't account for the odd timing of the shots as described by witnesses, one followed by two quick ones, which would have been impossible. And they didn't prove that what they said was possible was what actually, indeed happened that day in Dallas. A lot of things are possible. Don't mean nuthin.

Heck, the Altern photo shows Lee Harvey Oswald standing in the doorway on the first floor of the book depository. It's there in black and white. So that's "possible," too.

Oswald In the Doorway!

[edit on 23-3-2006 by Enkidu]

Originally posted by Enkidu

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Uh why would a guy trained to move away fast put on the brake??

Because he couldn't tell where the shots were coming from and rather than drive straight into a possible ambush coming from the railroad bridge ahead, his first instinct was to stop and get his bearings.

Sorry man but doesn't make any sense and this has been torn apart before. The car is bullet proof and shielded.. some have commented that JFK should not have chosen a convertible in the first place but that is a whole other issue..

The drivers job is to get out of there period, the secret service are to shield the president and to take a bullet for him if they have to.

Sorry dude but that is end of story... anybody disagree?

As to why -he got shot because he was going to repeal the federal reserve bank act of 1913, and allow the US gov't to print its own money instead of relying on a private consortium to print it at a loss....

I can't understand why people refuse to believe that the international banksters are the real enemy, not the muslims or christians, everything that happens, happens because they pull the strings, you guys should realise that Bush and every other president is just a puppet, and they are NOT in charge.

If only more people knew the truth about the Rothschild's.....

[edit on 23-3-2006 by DrBones666]

It is hard to make out the picture until you have seen the video, i couldnt see until i just pulled it off my hard drive. The top photo is best, you caught it as the guy in the passenger seat was turned around and the driver was looking forward after he had been turned.


Im watchin the zepruder tape now (brief clip). Theres no sound.... heres what i see >

JFK has his hand on his ear all the way up the road. The driver turns to look at the back for a good 1 and half to 2 seconds, along with evryone else, as he turns back to the front JFK's wife leans over to JFk. Then he gets his brains blown out, everyone then ducks for cover including the drivers and the wife climbs out the back.


My questions are:

1. Why did he have his hand on his ear from 1 end of the road up until he got shot? was it cause he did get skimmed by bullet 1? or was he on a mobile phone?

2. Why did the driver turn around before any shots? or did he turn around cause he heard and felt a bullet whizz by like the rest of them maybe did?

3. Who exactly was the driver? was he a jesuit?


The jesuit site says this:

''Heretic and traitor John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Knight of Columbus was a son of Jesuit hero Joseph P. Kennedy. Heretic John Fitzgerald turned on the temporal powers of the Jesuit Orders Papal Caesar by refusing to enforce the Pope’s divine right to rule all the governments of the world. This heretic sought to break the Black Pope’s Central Intelligence Agency; attack the Jesuit Brotherhood’s Federal Reserve Bank by the printing of “United States Notes” in lieu of Federal Reserve Notes; sought to end the great Cardinal Spellman’s Vietnam War; and attempted to warn the American people of the noble work of the Jesuit controlled Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). It is the CFR that has since controlled the executive branch of the United States in preparation for the inquisitions of the Heretical United States and Canada. For these reasons the Jesuits own good Cardinal Spellman coordinated this heretics assassination'' .

www.jesuitlove.org...

What do you make of that?


Theres also theorys that the car was rigged with a gun.

Could the driver have looked back to check JFKs position then flicked a switch as soon as he turnd back around? Or maybe he had nothing to do with it, either way i doubt anybody will know the results of the car investigation.

Is that zepruder tape the best and only version we have?

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Probably because the driver didn't shoot him and someone wanted to make it look like he did.

Or rather the driver did shoot him, and someone wanted to make it look like he didn't.

Originally posted by DrBones666
I can't understand why people refuse to believe that the international banksters are the real enemy, not the muslims or christians, everything that happens, happens because they pull the strings, you guys should realise that Bush and every other president is just a puppet, and they are NOT in charge.

I'm sorry, but if we let the Rothschilds in on the conspiracy, then we'll have to let in the Pentagon (who were afraid of him backing out of Vietnam and spilling the beans about the aliens).

last year i read a book called "Mortal Error" by Bonar Menninger. Its the story of a gunsmith named Howard Donahue. Mr. Donahue apparently had some skill in the area of ballistics and put them to use in his own time as a hobby to try to figure out where the shots came from in the assassination. In the book he alleges that a secret service agent in the first follow up car may have accidentally fired the final head exploding shot. he claims after the first or second shot the s.s. agent, whose name is Hickey picked up his colt AR-15 in hopes to get the assassin in his sights and take him out but that he may have accidentally pulled the trigger while turning around. he corroborates his theory with many pics, including frame by frame stills of the zapruder film, and also a black and white of the president's and the follow up car racing to parkland hosp. Hickey is seen holding the AR-15 which is clearly visible. he also uses diagrams and sketches of the trajectories and it all seems to make sense. The only thing is he makes it sound as though it may have been an accident and it is clearly stated in the book that Mr. Donahue didn't want Hickey to sue him. I myself never believed it was an accident no matter whodunit. Here's why, in other films that were taken just before the motorcade was turning into Dealey Plaza, the Agents running alongside the rear of the president's car or between the first and second cars, were called back. That is the one fact, for me at least, that makes the whole thing stink.

almost forgot to mention that mr donahue evn made attempts to testify before the warren commision. he wnt so far as to drive there and request thaT he be allowed to testify twice from what i recollect, but to no end. they even went to their congressman to see if he could call in a favor which he tried to , but to no avail. i never did finish the book but i did get about 3/4 of the way thru it.

[edit on 23-3-2006 by descendantofclairvoyance]

I too doubt the driver shot him

but it is just another RED HERRING , a waste of time speculating.

the ONLY question that needs to be asked , that SHOULD be asked ,

is WHY ?

credit to dimensional shifter for this ;

The jesuit site says this:

''Heretic and traitor John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Knight of Columbus was a son of Jesuit hero Joseph P. Kennedy. Heretic John Fitzgerald turned on the temporal powers of the Jesuit Orders Papal Caesar by refusing to enforce the Pope’s divine right to rule all the governments of the world. This heretic sought to break the Black Pope’s Central Intelligence Agency; attack the Jesuit Brotherhood’s Federal Reserve Bank by the printing of “United States Notes” in lieu of Federal Reserve Notes; sought to end the great Cardinal Spellman’s Vietnam War; and attempted to warn the American people of the noble work of the Jesuit controlled Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). It is the CFR that has since controlled the executive branch of the United States in preparation for the inquisitions of the Heretical United States and Canada. For these reasons the Jesuits own good Cardinal Spellman coordinated this heretics assassination'' .

p.s. it was speculated in a few books and confirmed by a deathbed confession that frank sturgis of watergate burglar fame, was one of the TEAM members in on the shooting

this was a high level operation , planning probably started on election day


[edit on 23-3-2006 by toasted]

Originally posted by Enkidu
Heck, the Altern photo shows Lee Harvey Oswald standing in the doorway on the first floor of the book depository. It's there in black and white. So that's "possible," too.

Oswald In the Doorway!

[edit on 23-3-2006 by Enkidu]

I agree that the "biometrics" listed in the article you linked to may bring a valuable tool to the table, but I wonder about the site's credibility. Further down, the article highlights another argument, that Oswald had no prior experience with weapons...I am not arguing whether he fired all the shots (I don't believe he did) but I thought he was an ex-marine, and a decent shot according to those in the Corps who knew him.

I could never make out the suposed "driver shoot JFK frames" but after getting a copy of "William Cooper - JFK Assassin Unmasked" there's no doubting the driver shot JFK in the head with some type of handgun. Please, like what are the chances of JFK's head exploding just as that "object" is pointed at him ?

How many threads do we need for this? Again, the driver did not shoot JFK. What looks like a gun is the sun reflecting off the passenger's head and what looks like an arm is the curb on the left side of the limo.

Plus, it is humanly impossible to have your head turned to the back of a vehicle while your back is against the seat and point a gun at someone in the back while your arm is straight....it's absurd and ridiculous.

Dr. Love...I'm with you...what about the sewer? And Dr. Love...nice to see Deniro back.....

Originally posted by metalmessiah
all of you need to find the documentary "beyond the magic bullet". this film proves beyond any doubt that the shots came from Oswald alone! these guys went to great lengths to try to duplicate the shot and even surprised themselves!

That show didnt prove anything IMO. They changed a bunch of factors in the equation height, distance, positions etc.. and still could not recreate the exact same shot. Plus their bullet that didnt even go through all the places (completely missed the guys wrist) that the Magic bullet went through and was in far worst condition of the prisine bullet the warrent commision gave us.

Dimensional_Shifter:

some good stuff there.

I'm guessing that JKK wore an 'earpiece' likely from the CIA? but he could have been nicked by Oswald's faulty shot? who knows maybe the idiot couldn't do the job so the others stepped in?

I still see no compelling reason why the driver would stop the car where he did and turn around. Does anybody know where this person is and why he did this?

In regards the Jesuits:

What you posted could either be one of two things here: A. the complete truth and probably one of the world's greatest conspiracies of all time or B. complete B/S. The reason I say it could be complete B/S is that annother small but very powerful group has been at war with the Catholic Church and the Jesuits for a long time and the site you came across could just be propaganda against them.

Got to admit I don't know at this point for sure either way.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
no offense but every point you have made here can easily be countered and you seem to have come from nowhere to make them.

denythestatusquo

Nice argument but i think mr black could be right. I had the same thought. If so why didnt jackie say something. JFK being a womaniser is different from being killed because of it. If she knew or had a hint, i am sure she would have done something to protect him or atleast warn him. I am sure if your best friend was in harm, you would warn him and try to help. Here they were husband and wife....with respect to her shopping there is no comparision. Ask any married couple and they will tell you that females love their clothes and more things to anything else in the world. That is their world. Tell them not to shop and see the reaction, you wont be surprised they wont like it.

I think it is too quick and there were too many people. It was in public. Just try to use a bit of logic, would you do it if there were that many people around?

MOD EDIT: Reduced quote size

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 25-3-2006 by AgentSmith]

OK, I am compelled to address a few things that have come up in this thread. Let me emphatically state, first of all, that the driver (Greer) did NOT do it. Too many witnesses were interviewed too soon after, and not ONE mentioned the possibility. They would have seen it. It doesnt make sense.

Regarding the sewer shot...have you seen the photos of those sewers? From the inside? The opening was so narrow that it would have been almost impossible to do this with a normal gun. Add that to the fact that at the time of the hadshot, , JFK would have been visible for a fraction of a second from the sewer...not enough time to line up a shot.

Third...it has been clearly shown that Jackie was freaking out and was indeed trying to recover a portion of her husband's head that had been blown onto the trunk. I will find the references if you guys so desire.

Originally posted by ChiliDog
Regarding the sewer shot...have you seen the photos of those sewers? From the inside? The opening was so narrow that it would have been almost impossible to do this with a normal gun. Add that to the fact that at the time of the hadshot, , JFK would have been visible for a fraction of a second from the sewer...not enough time to line up a shot.

I can't remember where exactly I heard or read this but I believe the storm sewer has since been altered from what it was, size wise, in 1963. As far as there only being a fraction of a second that Kennedy was visible from the sewer, that depends how much room there was inside the sewer. The opening aside, it's the room inside the sewer that's the key to visibility.

Not only do I think the fatal head shot came from the sewer, I think the shooter on the grassy knoll was cover for the shooter in the sewer, meant to draw attention away from the sewer. Some witnesses said that it sounded like a shot came from inside the car. That shot, I believe, actually was the sewer shot, the sewer being fairly close to the limo. On top of that the ease of escape using the storm drain made it the logical choice.

Peace

Dr. Love -

The opening was slightly larger in 1963, that is true. The layers of pavement over the years have made it a little bit smaller, but only by a few inches. I admit I was once intrigued by the idea of a swer shot but after looking at it hard, I just cant see that it would work.


I do agree with you about the ease of escape. Researchers have crawled out of the sewer to a completely different area of Dallas, so from that angle, it would be ideal. I just dont see it being physically possible to get the shot off from there.


Re: the shot that some thought sounded like it was INSIDE the car.....not to be gross here, but it is my contention that this was not a shot, but the explosion of the president's head from the impact, as we see in Z-313. That HAD to have made a noise. I can see it being mistaken for a shot.

Originally posted by apocalypticon

Originally posted by Enkidu
Heck, the Altern photo shows Lee Harvey Oswald standing in the doorway on the first floor of the book depository. It's there in black and white. So that's "possible," too.

Oswald In the Doorway!

[edit on 23-3-2006 by Enkidu]

I agree that the "biometrics" listed in the article you linked to may bring a valuable tool to the table, but I wonder about the site's credibility. Further down, the article highlights another argument, that Oswald had no prior experience with weapons...I am not arguing whether he fired all the shots (I don't believe he did) but I thought he was an ex-marine, and a decent shot according to those in the Corps who knew him.

I agree with you there. Oswald was a pretty capable shooter, even with a crappy weapon like the $20 Manlicher-Carcano. Hey, he hit three people (okay, one was a ricochet, but still) with four shots when no one else on the planet would have had time to get off three. That's darn fine shooting.