Why does much of this topic sound like a modern day mythology?

First, my disclaimer. I am not a skeptic. I have seen things in the sky that were not explainable with any known technology. A pattern of lights at night that suddenly split into different directions and departed the scene at fantastic speeds. An orb in broad daylight that was not a balloon, helicopter, or aircraft.

I cannot ignore the accounts of many contactees and abductees. Far too many apparently sane, level-headed people relating what is in essence, the same stories.

Based primarily on two incidences, Roswell and Rendlesham, I am convinced the military and governments of at least two countries know somethings up. I do not however, think any kind of formal disclosure will occur. Frankly, I think they are unable to demonstrate any kind of defense against extraterrestrials and are simply afraid to admit it.

However, I don't understand the persistent theme that we as a species are somehow powerless in the face of extraterresterial, or in some cases, interterresterial being's technology. If that were the case, why are they hiding? Why cloak their craft if our weaponry is useless against them? Why sneak around in the dark?

Centuries ago, people invented mythologies in order to explain things such as natural phenomena that seemed all-powerful or scary. You know, stuff like.. "The lightning is Thor casting his bolts from the heavens!!". Today we know what causes lightning.

So I see descriptions and accounts about hollow-earth dwelling, shape-shifting, flesh eating reptilians (I won't even justify it by capitalizing the word 'reptilian'), and I wonder. Where the heck does this come from? There is utterly zip, nada, zilch, reliable evidence. Other accounts describe extraterrestrials as completely dominating our planet and species; with all of the veracity of a magic-8-ball. I also don't understand the 'higher-plane of existence' thing. It seems more likely to me that they are simply physical beings with some really good tech. It makes me wonder...Is this in response to some kind of primal fear I, and I am sure many others, are not aware of? Have some people latched onto this as a means of justifying some kind of insecurity or doubt? Or is this type of story perpetuated intentionally as a means of making everyone interested in the UFO field look like a kook?

I've asked the same question over and over? Why do they cloak themselves? Why do they hide? Why the "cat and mouse" game? And leave the government/military out of it - ET hides from them as well. The obvious answer doesn't work in this instant case.

Anybody got a clue?

Have some people latched onto this as a means of justifying some kind of insecurity or doubt?

This would appear to be the case based on my experiences here at ATS.

Or is this type of story perpetuated intentionally as a means of making everyone interested in the UFO field look like a kook?

This would appear to be the case based on my experiences as an amateur UFOlogist and here at ATS.

Good questions. I agree with everything you said. All the reptilian stuff is ccrap. There is loads of evidence that ufos are craft from other planets. It seems that they are observing us and perhaps they are not allowed to intefere with some kind of rule similar to the prime directive in star trek. It seems that given a few facts people then wildly speculate about everything and it seems to read like another religion. How many posts have you seen "are aliens demons or angels etc..." by dumbbasss christians. How many posts have you seen "the world will end in 2012!". Wild prophecy gone crazy! Let alone the rubbish posted by *sister's.
** flame on **
There is no need to invoke higer dimensional spaces to account for UFO behaviour, although modern physics does not rule out the existence of higher dimensions.
The only UFO stuff I have ever read that is believable are the books: Beyond top secret by Timothy Good and the Day After Roswell by Major Phillip Corso.

I wish the posters described above would stay in the religion forum. ;-)

So I see descriptions and accounts about hollow-earth dwelling, shape-shifting, flesh eating reptilians (I won't even justify it by capitalizing the word 'reptilian'), and I wonder. Where the heck does this come from?

It comes straight from the human psyche. These are archetypes as old as time. The oldest adventure stories civilization has are about dragons that live in holes in the ground. Maybe it's some kind of residual memory from the days before there were many mammals around, and we had to scurry away from threatening dinosaurs. The reptilian stuff is just the same old thing, wrapped up in a new package.

Look! Sleestaks!



[edit on 8-3-2006 by Enkidu]

Originally posted by Enkidu
and we had to scurry away from threatening dinosaurs.

Come on now, you know dinosaurs and any version of humans never co-existed except in the movies don't you?

Unless I missed something in the telling, those legends didn't include dragons inter-breeding with humans did they? The new package is even more incredible than simply some ancient peasant's story, "Smog the Dragon lives inside the mountain and steals my goats at night".

NC

Originally posted by NotClever
So I see descriptions and accounts about hollow-earth dwelling, shape-shifting, flesh eating reptilians (I won't even justify it by capitalizing the word 'reptilian'), and I wonder. Where the heck does this come from?

I wonder the same. I run SETI, so I think there's *probably* an alien civ or two out there. Do I also run a program to find magical unicorns? No, because there is less reason to think they might exist. So why oh WHY do people interested in UFOs and aliens tend to also believe in everything-under-the-sun? Why if I think aliens might exist should I also believe that the oil companies are keeping down the inventor of a 300-mpg engine? Why should I also believe in bigfoot, spirit-contacts with alien hive-minds (which just happen to speak in new-age metaphors and terms), etc? Why should I believe that hidden messages can be found in peoples' reversed speech? WHY?

Originally posted by DR XI wish the posters described above would stay in the religion forum.

Can I get a witness. Amen.
That is what I keep tryin to get across
I feel like a tree in the forest.

Originally posted by NotClever

Or is this type of story perpetuated intentionally as a means of making everyone interested in the UFO field look like a kook?

I believe this is the case. It also serves a double purpose, those who do venture into the UFO topic often latch on to the more sensational aspects of the field.

You can observe this easily in the case of UFO pictures. Most people are interested in the "good" pictures that show up-close detailed "Craft" like those from Billy Meier (see Saucer in my avatar).

When the real pictures of UFOs are discussed or presented its inevitable that most people are highly disappointed with the pictures. They complain that the quality is always poor and no details are visible. Often people have a preconceived ideas of the way UFOs should look or the way in which they expect UFOs to look. The end result is that fake UFO pictures receive far more attention than the real UFO pictures , notice that the "I want to believe" poster on Mulder's wall in the X-files was a Billy Meier photo and its also present in the intro to National Geographic Channel's "Is it Real? " series. ( again see the same Saucer in my Avatar)

Originally posted by NotClever

Have some people latched onto this as a means of justifying some kind of insecurity or doubt?

Undoubtedly many people have the same insecurities and doubts. People are social creatures and the way others think influences the way individuals think.

The invasion scenario that people talk of so frequently is over a hundred years old dating back to fears of Martian invaders. Even though the real UFOs have been front page news for 60+ years and UFOs still never "Invaded" after all these years! The invasion scenario is still alive and well even after all these years.

Originally posted by NotClever

However, I don't understand the persistent theme that we as a species are somehow powerless in the face of extraterresterial, or in some cases, interterresterial being's technology. If that were the case, why are they hiding? Why cloak their craft if our weaponry is useless against them? Why sneak around in the dark?

Well one logical reason for not hovering directly over New York City in broad daylight or landing on the White House Lawn might be if we are being observed , you would want to observe a civilization like ours in its normal state and hovering directly over NYC or any similar display would be counter productive to the goals of observation.

Forinstance if you wanted to study the way children act and play together when they are not in the presence of adults, you would not pull up a chair in the middle of the room and sit there with them to make those kinds of observations.

( Note there are exceptions to this, Los Angeles '42, D.C. '52 , Mexico City '91 , Pheonix Lights '97, and many other major metropolitan sightings from all over the Globe as well. )

Originally posted by NotClever

Unless I missed something in the telling, those legends didn't include dragons inter-breeding with humans did they?

Maybe not inter-breeding per se , but I remember most Dragon's in stories having a fundamental need for young female Virgins.

[edit on 9-3-2006 by lost_shaman]

You're making the mistake of lumping us all into the same category. There are those who are real and then there are those who rip off and claim to be real who really don't have a clue and who are very good word smiths and good at creating catagories and new words and definitions of things that don't fit reality.

Originally posted by Dr X
Good questions. I agree with everything you said. All the reptilian stuff is ccrap. There is loads of evidence that ufos are craft from other planets.


Grasshopper say, "I'd like a few examples if I could."

It seems that they are observing us and perhaps they are not allowed to intefere with some kind of rule similar to the prime directive in star trek.

Grasshopper say, "They know that we can not handle contact with them. They will contact those who they think are ready for it and can handle it. I don't think there is a prime directive that says that can't interfere in our affairs. I think they do interfere in our affairs."


It seems that given a few facts people then wildly speculate about everything and it seems to read like another religion. How many posts have you seen "are aliens demons or angels etc..." by dumbbasss christians. How many posts have you seen "the world will end in 2012!". Wild prophecy gone crazy! Let alone the rubbish posted by *sister's.
** flame on **

Grasshopper say, "Amen to that. Christians want us to define the whole ufo thing according to their own preconceived misunderstandings and limited information. They are desperately trying to hold onto their own belief system. Better to hear the other point of view and if your belief system can still survive then it may be a good one. If not, better to start over from scratch.


There is no need to invoke higer dimensional spaces to account for UFO behaviour, although modern physics does not rule out the existence of higher dimensions.

Grasshopper say, "modern physics? now you have problem with your thinking if you trust in theoretical physicists who like to rip off contactees to come up with their crazy theories."


The only UFO stuff I have ever read that is believable are the books: Beyond top secret by Timothy Good and the Day After Roswell by Major Phillip Corso.

I wish the posters described above would stay in the religion forum. ;-)

Grasshopper say, "Amen to that."

Existence of extraterrestrial life seems very real. All of the stories reported by random people on the internet do not seem real, however. Vicious reptilians, multiple crazy sounding alien races, red-eyed monsters...who is to know for sure what is real and what is made up? Yes, there is other life out there. No, there is no proof of any of the claims you and I both read here online. It is nothing more than text typed out by people like you and I who could just as well be making everything up. My point is do not lose sleep over what you read on the internet, it is basically all hearsay...

Originally posted by Diplomat
Existence of extraterrestrial life seems very real. All of the stories reported by random people on the internet do not seem real, however. Vicious reptilians, multiple crazy sounding alien races, red-eyed monsters...who is to know for sure what is real and what is made up?

snip

No, there is no proof of any of the claims you and I both read here online. It is nothing more than text typed out by people like you and I who could just as well be making everything up. My point is do not lose sleep over what you read on the internet, it is basically all hearsay...

There is some truth to what you are saying here. Almost anyone with an IQ of 90 or above can Hoax an interesting sighting or write an interesting story.

The Sad fact is that there are millions of people that are telling the truth about UFOs. These people tell of UFOs for the sole purpose of informing others.

I am one of these people who has had a close encounter with a strange UFO.

I honestly can not fault anyone for bogging down in the literal Tar Pit of Bravo Serra that is the Modern Mythology of "Aliens and UFOs".

I could not believe at the age of 26 that I witnessed what I witnessed. UFOs are not supposed to exist after all and yet I was staring at one from around 30 yards or so for five minutes with two other witness'.

With that having been said and I having had a CE-1 with a UFO that had very strange and unique characteristics , I find that there is more than enough true stories of UFO sightings than most people ever realize.

And not only that , but most people are so numb to real personal accounts of UFO sightings that they never even give themselves the chance to look at the true evidence ( Millions of people seeing the same thing while awake for possibly hundreds of years before mankind could have possibly developed such technology.)

The thing is that UFO sightings even real ones are simply not as interesting to people as the "stories" about "Aliens" and secret Military and "Alien" Bases. It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to tell an interesting make believe story about "Aliens" , but people telling the truth about their UFO sightings have no chance to compete for attention with the sensational "stories" that people are interested in reading.

Once a person who has believed a false sensational story and has discovered it was fake all along even though it seemed to fit with other less sensational information , they tend to lose all interest in the entire subject . This I will call the "I should have known better syndrome" that works absolutely in favor of the Hoaxers and disinformationists.

Everyone else considers the subject taboo or unworthy of their time , and even against their personal beliefs , so the majority of the population has almost zero chance of seriously looking at all of the facts.

Originally posted by Diplomat
No, there is no proof of any of the claims you and I both read here online. It is nothing more than text typed out by people like you and I who could just as well be making everything up. My point is do not lose sleep over what you read on the internet, it is basically all hearsay...

I'd like to start discussion threads that buck the trend. Polite, logical, reasoned discussion that doesn't veer off into wild-eyed assertions, or claims of "You're a disinfo agent!", "No, you are!", "Huh-uh, you are!". I would particularly like to draw in casual visitors to this area of ATS who would normally skip this topic.

Because:

Originally posted by lost_shaman

Originally posted by NotClever
Or is this type of story perpetuated intentionally as a means of making everyone interested in the UFO field look like a kook?

I believe this is the case. It also serves a double purpose, those who do venture into the UFO topic often latch on to the more sensational aspects of the field.

Kind of like advertising the flashy bits up front? Unfortunately, it can also keep away people who can add something to the discussion. I lurked here for a very long time, hesitant to speak my mind, yet feeling like I had something to add. Finally, I got tired of reading people sucking up the claims of a thread author and decided to add a non-skeptic, skeptical viewpoint, if that makes any sense.

Well one logical reason for not hovering directly over New York City in broad daylight or landing on the White House Lawn might be if we are being observed , you would want to observe a civilization like ours in its normal state and hovering directly over NYC or any similar display would be counter productive to the goals of observation.

I think that is an 'on-the-money' statement. But it also opens a question for me. I don't have factual numbers to back this up, but....I think the demographics will show that close-encounters reported by abductees, or contactees, far outnumbers the sightings of individual UFOs. What does that mean for 'our normal state' and 'the goals of observation' when apparently most of the observations result in humans that are either terrified, have their lives completely altered, and often tell many other people about their experiences?

Thanks everyone for your input, its a pleasure reading it.

NC

Originally posted by NotClever

Kind of like advertising the flashy bits up front? Unfortunately, it can also keep away people who can add something to the discussion.

Yes , right on .... that is exactly what I meant . It serves a double purpose.

I lurked here for a very long time, hesitant to speak my mind, yet feeling like I had something to add. Finally, I got tired of reading people sucking up the claims of a thread author and decided to add a non-skeptic, skeptical viewpoint, if that makes any sense.

Makes perfect logical sense to me ... Welcome to ATS!

I don't have factual numbers to back this up, but....I think the demographics will show that close-encounters reported by abductees, or contactees, far outnumbers the sightings of individual UFOs. What does that mean for 'our normal state' and 'the goals of observation' when apparently most of the observations result in humans that are either terrified, have their lives completely altered, and often tell many other people about their experiences?

O.k. first let me say that despite what you thought , there are millions of UFO sightings that are legit and or similar in most if not all aspects.

Notice that UFO sightings occur world wide and abductions seem to be exclusive to the U.S.

Contactee's are very far and few between , so UFO sightings are basically universal around the world and contactee and abductee's are not universal or as wide spread.

About fear... ( I had a close encounter with a UFO ) I have to admit to you that I was so interested as it seemed at the time to be a once in a lifetime event , and yet at the same time I was primaly fearful in the most primitive of ways as the object was hovering near my car.




[edit on 9-3-2006 by lost_shaman]

Originally posted by lost_shaman
O.k. first let me say that despite what you thought , there are millions of UFO sightings that are legit and or similar in most if not all aspects.

Notice that UFO sightings occur world wide and abductions seem to be exclusive to the U.S.

Contactee's are very far and few between , so UFO sightings are basically universal around the world and contactee and abductee's are not universal or as wide spread.

Thanks, its obvious I need to do a little (a lot?) more research. Did some quick googling of these events and was disappointed in the lack of resources. Must dig deeper.

NC