Was L. Ron Hubbard a satanist...or worse? Is Scientology linked to the NWO?

Originally posted by Duzey
PS. Not all Scientologists belong to the Church of Scientology, and you can learn the tech for free.

Really? How does that work? Do they still think of L. Ron as greater than Buddha?(:barf
Don't they need to buy Dianetics from the Church of Scientology? This is so strange.
I'd like to talk to one of them. If you're out there, whats up with that?

Originally posted by DiabolicEdict
So my question is this - is the church of scientology the breeding ground for some sort of huge scale brain washing of the masses?

Yes, but in this aspect, it's no different than any other church.

Oh, you forgot the Star Trek/Gene Roddenberry connection with Hubbard via Naval Intelligence. And the renegade "M-5" computer with its "faulty engrams."

But can you prove it's NOT true!?

Originally posted by darkelf
Please don't misunderstand. I was not making fun of Scientology, only Tom Cruise.

I like to make fun of Tom Cruise, too.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Really? How does that work? Do they still think of L. Ron as greater than Buddha?(

)
Don't they need to buy Dianetics from the Church of Scientology? This is so strange.

Yes, people in the 'Freezone' (as they call themselves) still think very highly of LRH. The general feeling is that the church, as it is today, is not true to LRH's teachings and philosophies. A fair amount of the older members/founders of the Freezone believe that the Church is nothing more than a money maker for those who took over after LRH's death.

Our general opinion is that Scientology, as represented by the CofS, has departed far from its original philosophy and technology. But discover this for yourself by reading our pages. Based on the information at hand we can safely conclude, that today's Church of Scientology is not what L. Ron Hubbard originally intended.
www.freezone.org...

There have also been rewrites of the technologies which, according to LRH, is a huge no-no. There are some examples here:

www.freezone.de...

Dianetics is available from most any library, free of charge. Free tech can be found at the following sites:

freezoneamerica.org...
www.sgmt.at...
www.geocities.com...

How to make your own Emeter:

www.ralphhilton.org...

They usually don't come right out and call it Standard Tech, because it's copyrighted and the Church is very litigious.

There is also a free clearing course by The Pilot, which is not Standard. Some oldtimers will tell you that you can fry your brain using it, but I haven't seen any sign of that in the people I know who have used it. It's fairly straightforward and will give you a good idea of what kinds of training they use.

freezoneamerica.org...

You can also find a few groups on Yahoo, but most of them are invitation only. I was fortunate enough to be extended an invitation (I am considered a Natural Clear) and these are normal people who have found something that works for them.

I should point out that I am not a Scientologist, and will never be a Scientologist. However, I have found that some of the tech is actually useful. Astral projection is just one of the nifty things you can learn at the higher levels.


[edit on 10-5-2006 by Duzey]

But..... L. Ron Hubbard was a huge friggin' jerk. His life was well documented, often in his own hand. Aside from that, he made the specific comments describing his intent to create a religion to make money on it. I'm sure people have access to that info. Probably more easily than the actual info on scientology.

It's just completely beyond me how anyone could fall for it.

Thanks, Duzey, for your input.

I still think the Church of Scientology is a big scam, and the organization itself is a dangerous cult bent on draining members finances. But folks like yourself I did not know existed. I dont see anything really bad about what you and the freezoners practice. if it floats your boat and makes you happy, more power to you.

I generally do not like attacking relions, as to each their own, but Scientology is one of the exceptions (Church of Scientology) because of its aggresive, predatory tactics. as well as vindictive, abusive behavior towards the opposition. I hold a poor view of any aggresive, pushy group of people who try and push their worldview on others.

I remember when the CoS tried recruiting me. God, i still have nightmares about that.

From the Penthouse Interview with Hubbard's son:

www.rickross.com...

Penthouse: Did your father take a lot of drugs?

Hubbard: Yes. Since he was sixteen. You see, drugs are very important in the application of heavy black magic. The personal use of drugs expands one's conscious ability to break open the doors to the realm of the deep.

[...]

Penthouse: Did he encourage you to do drugs?

Hubbard: Well, he used them with me. He was a real night person. We used to sit around all night, sit around his office or home, get loaded up, and talk. He had a pretty liquid tongue. He loved to talk. And of course, in the fifties, he decided that I was the heir apparent, so he wanted to teach me everything he knew. He started me out by mixing phenobarbital into my bubble gum, when I was ten years old. This was to induce deeper trances in order to practice the black magic and to get an avenue to power.

Penthouse: How exactly would this work?

Hubbard: The explanation is sort of long and complicated. The basic rationale is that there are some powers in this universe that are pretty strong. As an example, Hitler was involved in the same black magic and the same occult practices that my father was. The identical ones. Which, as I have said, stem clear back to before Egyptian times. It's a very secret thing. Very powerful and very workable and very dangerous. Brainwashing is nothing compared to it. The proper term would be "soul cracking." It's like cracking open the soul, which then opens various doors to the power that exists, the satanic and demonic powers. Simply put, it's like a tunnel or an avenue or a doorway. Pulling that power into yourself through another person --and using women, especially -- is incredibly insidious. It makes Dr. Fu Manchu look like a kindergarten student. It is the ultimate vampirism, the ultimate mind-[censored], instead of going for blood, you're going for their soul. And you take drugs in order to reach that state where you can, quite literally, like a psychic hammer, break their soul, and pull the power through. He designed his Scientology Operating Thetan techniques to do the same thing. But, of course, it takes a couple of hundred hours of auditing and mega-thousands of dollars for the privilege of having your head turned into a glass Humpty Dumpty --shattered into a million pieces. It may sound like incredible gibberish, but it made my father a fortune.

Nobody's read this interview? It pretty much lays out the whole central core of Scino thinking.

I really don't want to mislead anyone, so I'll try to clear this up right away. I'm not a Scientologist, nor do I practice the tech. I'm just fascinated by different religions.

I've always thought the church was something to be avoided at all costs. When I found out about the Freezone, I took the opportunity to ask them all the things I ever wanted to know about Scientology and the church, without the sales pitch. They were quite open about the various things they though were wrong with the church and seemed ok with the fact that I had no interest in joining them. I didn't want to use the tech, I just wanted to be able to read it for myself and see exactly what it was.

When you get right down to the actual techniques and practices, they are really just a mix of several different techniques used by others, including my therapist. There are some really strong Buddhist overtones through all of it.

My current opinion on why Scientologists are such big fans of LRH is that they learned about him through the church. Scientologists say that the tech works for them and LRH is the man who gave it to them.

I think the reason people still join is that they don't know the history behind it or they know someone who practices. Once they start, if it works for them, they usually continue. The thing you have to understand is that Scientologists are not like you and I, they don't read ahead. It takes a long time and a lot of money to reach the point where you learn about xenu and some of them never get there.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
if it floats your boat and makes you happy, more power to you.

That's the exact same outlook that made the freezone people willing to open up and talk to me about what they did and believed.

Duzey, sounds like you actually looked to see what scientology is - always a valuable thing to do when you are researching something

Really, he's right guys. The religion is about increasing abilities and making people happy. The reason the church is able to control people inside so well is because these people are using something that is doing a lot for them and the chuch can threaten to take it all away. Even though the scientology in the church is watered down and altered to the point where it is becoming something else, it is still very usable. Keep in mind that most people in the church have no idea that you can get standard tech outside of the church.

The church wasn't always the way it is now. It used to be run by scientologists. You really have to differentiate between Scientology and the Church of Scientology. One is an innocent religion that has done a lot for many people, the other is an organization that was taken over around 1983 and is now run by non-scientologists that just want to make money.

Think about it. The Church of Scientology attacks people that use the original Scientology outside the church. Why would they do that? Obviously, you can't judge Scientology by looking at the Church of Scientology. There is quite a lot more to that whole story. The freezone is FAR, FAR different from the church. The freezone is where the real scientology is and where the true scientologists are, not in the church.

As for Hubbard, he wasn't some kind of god. Scientologists don't think that. He wasn't always Clear either. According to Scientology, he would have had the same problems everyone else has before they are Clear. A lot of info about him is false, planted, spun, etc. Some things are taken out of context like if he makes a joke and then it's printed all over the internet like he was saying it seriously. If anybody wrote as much as this guy did you could certainly find some way to discredit them. After millions upon millions of words you're probably going to find something to make them look bad. I'm not saying that it is ALL false but I am saying that there is definately some false info out there about him.

A quick example. Hubbard knew a satanist, apparently, and in one of his lectures said that there is some interesting data in Crowley's work. From this, people conclude that the entire religion is based on this. He mentions Crowley's work in one lecture, not all the thousands of lectures he gave, just one. If you look at the data contained in the religion, you can clearly see it has nothing to do with satanism. Hubbard researched all kinds of religions. Some people are like that. They are not afraid to look at all sorts of stuff. They are curious, they want to know about things. Before scientology he had probably studied just about every religion out there.

posted by diabolicedict
So my question is this - is the church of scientology the breeding ground for some sort of huge scale brain washing of the masses? Are they a part of the new world order or working directly for the anti-christ himself? Was L.Ron Hubbard a con man? Or was he an evil mastermind who has fashioned a religion of brain washed zombie people who are making a charge at taking over the world as we know it? Also.....Xenu and this alien race that have supposedly lived for millions and millions of years...could these be the reptilian race that inhabits the earth now? All very wild and bizarre indeed...but I would like everyone elses take on the OTIII revelations and general teachings of Scientology, the link to Aleister Crowley and the Church of Satan, or any possible direct link to the NWO or the reptilian beings. All responses appreciated.

[edit on 3-3-2006 by DiabolicEdict]

Need to get your facts straight about Aleister Crowley dude. Ron Hubbard just struck it lucky ( con man ) pure and simple. And what a scam he's/scientology have created, have got some big scalps. If Tom Cruise ever ends up running the world with John Travolta then i owe ya a beer. You'll probably need it then!

Ha! If Tom Cruise ends up ruling the world, I will need a bottle of everclear!

[edit on 12-5-2006 by gigaplex]

I guess people will believe anyting if the guy saying it is charismatic enough. Whether you belive an alien emporer brainwashes ghosts on Jupiter, or that the Hale Bop comet is hiding an alien ship, and the only way to get there is to drink the punch, or if some white guy was walking around in the middle east 2000 years ago, and had to be the son of god because, well someone said so. Oh, and Joe Smith...what a weirdo.

Well, I guess I have my silly beliefs too.

[edit on 12-5-2006 by Rasobasi420]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I guess people will believe anyting if the guy saying it is charismatic enough. Whether you belive an alien emporer brainwashes ghosts on Jupiter, or that the Hale Bop comet is hiding an alien ship, and the only way to get there is to drink the punch, or if some white guy was walking around in the middle east 2000 years ago, and had to be the son of god because, well someone said so. Oh, and Joe Smith...what a weirdo.

Well, I guess I have my silly beliefs too.

[edit on 12-5-2006 by Rasobasi420]

It really has nothing to do with beliefs. At no point in scientology does anybody ever care what you believe. There aren't any beliefs required, not even on the OT levels. I have talked with a lot of scientologists inside and outside the church and have never had any religious beliefs forced upon me. It is a set of tools. You learn how to use a tool or apply some datum and then you try it out. If it works for you, then cool, you use it. If not, then you throw that idea away, get it corrected, or whatever. IT IS NOT A BELIEF SYSTEM. People create their own belief system from what they actually see happening themselves - not taking somebody's word for it. This is a key point in scientology made over and over.

Sure, somebody could believe the whole xenu thing without having any proof and just go on "belief" but scientology warns against doing this. In scientology you are advised to wait until you see proof before relying on the data.

I have seen some scientologists that have gone through OT3 (the xenu thing) and don't believe a word of it and have it still give them the promised results. For whatever reason, the spriritual material attached to the body responded well to this and that is that. Maybe the story approximates something else and it is close enough that there is a response. It doesn't really matter. It's the results that matter. It is not the "core" of the religion. When you get to the upper levels, people don't just sit around talking about aliens all day - that would waste too much time. What would be the point??

But since the alien thing seems to be concentrated on in this thread, let me elaborate. On TV the whole story is made out to look as unbelievable as possible. Whenever it is talked about, it is usually to make fun of the religion so you could expect this. Really, all that happened in this story is that there was a guy that tried to take over a large civilization. This happens on Earth all the time, nothing new. Under the guise of fixing the overpopulation problem, he gathered up all that opposed him and put them on Earth. Then he nuked the place, which might explain the 70 million year old radiation layer on the Earth, who knows? So really, why is this a big deal? It's not exactly far fetched and it is not a very wild story. If the entire religion just led up to this and that was the end don't you think the story would be made a bit more interesting? I mean Hubbard has gone over much wilder things about space like bodies in pawn and things like that. Even in his science fiction books he has had much more interesting stories. Why pick such a plain uninteresting story for this level? What would be the point of that? Just something to think about.

Anyway, just wanted to clear that up. I realize that not everybody has gobs of free time to go look at the materials and actually see all that I am talking about. Without really digging into the subject, I'd probably come to the same conclusion as the rest of the public. Scientology has got to be about the most misunderstood topic out there. Probably because the subject is huge, takes decades to study the whole thing and it's history and current situation are rather complicated.

[edit on 12-5-2006 by gigaplex]

You know I talked to a scientologist the other day and they do have beleifs. they beleive the rest of humanity are being fed off of by aliens left here to die 50 million years ago by some alien emporer. They also beleive the pharma industry is dumbing us down for invasion also.

You ever see the movie Battlefield Earth with Travolta well they actually beleive that will happen.

See the people who join scientology have to pay lot's of money it costs tens of thousands of dollars to become clear (getting rid of the leeching alien entities) now if the church beleived what they said it would not cost that much money. L Ron said it himself that religeon was good for the pocket book and i quoted him on it earlier in this thread. Books he has written like Dianetics are pretty well worshiped by his followers and even his son said his father was a con man. Scientologists have also infiltrated government agnecies, threaten people when they speak out and view the rest of us as inferior because we aren't cleared of alien entities like they are.

Scientology is one of the biggest cons this and last century. Mind you I can say the same thing about christianity, Judaism, Muslims and so on.

Anyone who beleives in Scientology is a fool

Originally posted by The_Doctor
You ever see the movie Battlefield Earth with Travolta well they actually beleive that will happen.

I am a freezoner and I don't believe Battlefield Earth is real. In fact, I don't know any scientologist that does. Seriously man, it was just a movie. Get your facts straight. Just because one scientologist might believe something doesn't mean every other scientologist does. That's called a stereotype. Do you also think that all asians are good at math, all black people are criminals and all italians are in the mafia??

I wasn't saying scientologists don't have any beliefs. Every human has beliefs. What I was saying is that scientology is not a belief system. You are not required to believe anything. The religion is not based on belief it is based on tools that you use in life. It's about application not conjecture.

As for the money thing. I have already covered this but yeah they charge a lot of money because they are only in it for the money. That is the Church of Scientology which is not even run by scientologists. The church was taken over around 1983. So the fact that the church charges a lot of money doesn't say anything about the actual religion.

[edit on 13-5-2006 by Shawnna]

Originally posted by Shawnna
There is a connection between the O.T.O. and Scientology. Before Ron Hubbard founded Scientology, he was the leader of the O.T.O. in America.

Wrong

The O.T.O. practices human sacrifice.

Wrong

It was founded by Aleister Crowley,

Wrong

who performed 150 human sacrifices, mostly on boys.

Wrong

You would do well to read the second part of that page for the corrections.

Shawnna: perfect example of the eagerness to beleive anything bad about scn on the internet. lol

Scientology seems nutty and I wonder how anyone could fall for it.
But I say the same thing about all the mainstream monotheistic religions.

I am fascinated by the pull of scientology. I cannot even imagine why so many people would follow a fake religion. I applaude all those out there that follow generalized good human behavior such as not killing anyone, not stealing, treating everyone with kindness, promoting physical and mental health, etc. These are "rules/guidelines" set out in every religion. With that said; I think scientology or at least the church is dangerous. Not because they have any chance of ruling the world but because they have and still do brainwash and harm(physically and mentally) many people. Please take time to read the declarations of Astra Woodcraft and her sister Zoe Woodcraft. They were former members of the Sea Org as children and were treated VERY poorly. You can find many links to this by just searching for "woodcraft declarations". L. Ron Hubbard created this religion. He thought it would be fun, for kicks. He knew it would make him an enormous amount of money and did it simply because he could! There is so much information out there that discredits this religion and exposes its seriously harmful ideals. I am surprised the church is still allowed to practice and stay in business after the evidence of child abuse and neglect that has surfaced. As for celebrities that are scientologists and "seem fine" in Astra's declaration she tells us that there are a seperate set of rules for celebrities. Obviously to lend credit to the religion and take away apprehensions.

I know a couple of scientologists and they seem very sane to me. I think double standards apply here. If seven nuns in Rwanda participate in genocide - as has happened - noone would think to blame the catholic faith for their misdeeds. But if a scientologist goes bonkers, it is inevitably laid out as a consequence of his or hers involvement with this religion. Someone once gave me a copy of The Way to Happiness - a sort of moderne version of the 10 commandments written by the founder of Scientology. Didn't find a word in it, that I could disagree with.