Where does your information come from?

I see a lot of threads here about Illuminati or Freemasonry and I can pretty well understand where Mason's information comes from on the latter.

But those saying Freemasons are evil (or pawns) where does your information come from? Is the person credible, some personal experience (if so are you credible)?

And most curiously, where does any of your information come from regarding the Illuminati (an organization that never really existed as it was disbanded before it was even formalized).

If this group is so powerful as to be controlling the world, then you with your Personal Computer do not have the technological prowess to spy upon them, so it's obvious you know nothing about them.

Do you have some insider who is in the know? If so is he credible (or is he David Icke who believes in the Nazi myth that the world is Hollow and the Aryan race came from the interior and will some day return...if you don't know the hollow Earth theory is really a Nazi myth then you really do have a lot more study).

I'm not interested in hearing your defense of your beliefs; feel free to list all the sources you deem sufficient and I and others here who are of my opinion (that the world isn't some massive conspiracy) will be very thankful.

A good book to start with is: Picknett, Lynn"The Stargate Conspiracy", published by the Berkley Publishing Group. The "Hiram Key" (forgot authors name) is another and a bunch more out there.

To give a broad summary of all the reading of I have done on Masons though, it amounts to this:

The Masons are an elite group/cult/cabal/religion that essentially want to control world affairs. In order to expidite this they have numerous and documented associations with amongst others: the CIA, DIA, KGB, various religious cults such as the OTO and others. It doesn't mean that they intend evil ends per se, but they seem willing to use such methods and groups to achieve those ends.

(Most of the Founding Fathers of America were Masons, incidentally)

I look forward to seeing the forthcoming answers to your question also.
I have indirectly asked the same question many times and then been bombarded with website addresses leading to scripture or fanatical sites that lead many to believe that because they've typed it onto a website - it is fact.

I'll await the growth of this thread eagerly.

Passenger I read the Hiram Key and saw nothing about "evil Masons" but did see some information that didn't seem to be correct. A better book is Born in Blood and Dungeon Fire and Sword (both written by a noted Midieval historian).

Another really good book is "The Spirit of Masonry by Foster Baily. He was a high ranking Mason and explains some of the Masonic spiritual beliefs. It's very old though (1957), and may be hard to find.
As you probably already know, our government is rife with Masonic symbolism, eg. the dollar-bill. What you may not know is that it has very deep meaning to a Masonic initiate.
Again the dollar-bill has "Novus Ordo Seclorum", which of course means "New World Order". Henry Wallace, former VP, put this symbol there and said " It will take a more definite recognition of the Grand Architect (Masonic beliefs)....before inaugurating 'the new order of the ages'. They are dangerous, not because they want to eat babies or burn down everyone's home, but because they desire world dominance, for whatever ends they have. Incidentally, I became interested in researching Masonry because a number of my relatives were and wanted me to join, so I had to check it out. None were 33rd Degree though or I might be President right now.

Your right, it's not "Hiram Key", it's "Keys of Enoch". Always got those two guys mixed up. Sorry!

Originally posted by passenger


Again the dollar-bill has "Novus Ordo Seclorum", which of course means "New World Order".

No. It doesn't. You get an F on this week's Latin quiz, Mr. Passenger.

Novus means "new"

Ordo does mean Order.

Seclorum is the genitive of Saecula, which means cycle or age. It doesn't mean "world," which is mundi.

Secula can also be a generation, like generation x.


In the sense of age, secula occurs at the end of the Lord's prayer in Latin:
"Saecula Seaculorum Amen." Literally "ages of ages." Which has been rendered into english as "forever and ever"

Saecula is where we get the word "secular," by which we mean non-religious, although the original connotation was something is "of this age" or is here for a long time. Enduring. This is why economists refer to the rise in crude oil prices as a "secular trend." They don't mean that its anti-church; they mean it is here for a while.

The founders weren't thinking of a "new world order" in a globalist sense. (Hitler's confederates in the Thule society coined THAT term, I believe.)

The founders were saying that the US of A would be a lasting way of doing business, that democratic republics would become the way that all people would want to govern themselves.

That this "public thing" (Latin res publica) would become the new model for our times.


Nasty folks, alright.

.

Originally posted by passenger
Another really good book is "The Spirit of Masonry by Foster Baily. He was a high ranking Mason and explains some of the Masonic spiritual beliefs.

This may sound like I'm nitpicking, but it should be pointed out that Bailey was not "a high ranking Mason", nor did he describe "Masonic spiritual beliefs" in his book.

As far as being a "high ranking Mason", Bailey never held any office outside of his own Blue Lodge. He was never elected to any Grand Lodge office.

As far as "spiritual beliefs" go, what his book describes is Theosophical spiritual beliefs, not Masonic ones. He freely acknowledges in the introduction that much of the book (if not most) was actually written by his wife Alice, founder of an American Theosophical branch called Lucis Trust.

It's very old though (1957), and may be hard to find.

The book is published by Lucis Trust, and can be ordered here.

As you probably already know, our government is rife with Masonic symbolism, eg. the dollar-bill. What you may not know is that it has very deep meaning to a Masonic initiate.

In reality, nothing on the dollar bill is a Masonic symbol per se, and the men who actually designed it were not Masons. The Masonic initiate will see in it the universal nature of some symbols, especially the Eye of Providence, but the Great Seal of the United States is in general of no significant importance in Masonic symbolism.

Incidentally, I became interested in researching Masonry because a number of my relatives were and wanted me to join, so I had to check it out. None were 33rd Degree though or I might be President right now.

Why would you think that? Why would people want to vote for you just because your relatives were Scottish Rite Masons?

using Lynn Picknett as a "credible source IMO is on par with siting Dan Brown
as a Historical source. They both write Fiction, entertwined with a bit of fact.

I also question some of things said regarding Mason's,I come from a family of Mason's my father and uncle were lay leaders of the church as well,I was ordained also,I never heard nor saw nor was told anythingweird,I think it might be a few that couldn't get into the Mason's trying to substaniciate their theorys

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
I also question some of things said regarding Mason's,I come from a family of Mason's my father and uncle were lay leaders of the church as well,I was ordained also,I never heard nor saw nor was told anythingweird,I think it might be a few that couldn't get into the Mason's trying to substaniciate their theorys

More than likely, Oldtimer. Envy is a nasty thing when mixed with jealousy and ignorance - in any scenario. Its quite obvious when you can see it objectively.

I think it might be a few that couldn't get into the Mason's trying to substaniciate their theorys

I never attempted to join the Masons. I did some reasearch and talked to a bunch of people (including active Members). After that I decided there were too many unanswered questions for my liking.
As far as my theories, it's just that-theories. The very problem with any secret society is that factual information about the inner workings is difficult to obtain, unless you are privy to the inner machinations.
And as far as Masons being evil. No I do not believe that most individual Masons are evil. As, stated I have friends and relatives who are members. That, however, does not preclude the overall impetus of the organization from being evil. Many members of the Nazi party were simply secretaries, accountants, etc., and were not intentionally fostering evil. Sorry, if I offended you but I thought this was just about putting out questions and possible explanations.

Originally posted by passenger

I think it might be a few that couldn't get into the Mason's trying to substaniciate their theorys

I never attempted to join the Masons. I did some reasearch and talked to a bunch of people (including active Members). After that I decided there were too many unanswered questions for my liking.
As far as my theories, it's just that-theories. The very problem with any secret society is that factual information about the inner workings is difficult to obtain, unless you are privy to the inner machinations.
And as far as Masons being evil. No I do not believe that most individual Masons are evil. As, stated I have friends and relatives who are members. That, however, does not preclude the overall impetus of the organization from being evil. Many members of the Nazi party were simply secretaries, accountants, etc., and were not intentionally fostering evil. Sorry, if I offended you but I thought this was just about putting out questions and possible explanations.

Comparing Masonry with Nazism (which against it fought on moral grounds) basically proves your argument Masonry is "evil" as being rediculous.

You need to learn more about what was going on in Nazism, then maybe you'll understand the differences.

Originally posted by passenger
Your right, it's not "Hiram Key", it's "Keys of Enoch". Always got those two guys mixed up. Sorry!

Are you kidding? You do nothing for your credibility with this blather. The Keys of Enoch by JJ Hurtak has nothing to do with masonry. Keep your conspiracies straight.

How could you possibly 'mix up' Christopher Knight (Hiram Key) with JJ Hurtak?

mtrn

[edit on 24-2-2006 by metatronic]