Closed minded Hollywood doesn't like gay actors?

To be honest you have become one of my favorites on here BH. Its the few like you that make me even post here...I used to just read.

Homosexuality doesnt bother me. I said before, so long as you screw consenting adults and not kids and animals you are ok by me.

You perceive acting queer as a byproduct of being gay, I perceive it as an act for attention, like "LOOK AT ME, I AM FLAMING GAY!." I am not against it, I just think its silly. I will never feel bad for a "queer" that cant get a good job, or be picked above the crowd, just as I dont feel bad for kids with mohawks or sagging pants. Its an act perpetrated to make you stand out in a crowd. I would rather see people come up with a more constructive way to be memorable. Our fundamental disagreement here, IMO, is that exactly.

I think we are beating a dead horse here though, where is the exciting thread?

Originally posted by DaFunk13
I think we are beating a dead horse here though, where is the exciting thread?

I think you're right!

I find in my daily life that I'm just not bothered at all by the way people are. I LOVE the wide variety. When most people are rolling their eyes and being disgusted (by underwear showing or public displays of affection, etc.) and finding fault with other people, I'm like,"What"?



Interesting threads, you say? Try these...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is there any gay men on here that care to explain why some act "Queer?"

Is it an identity thing? Is it an attention thing? Is it a craving for acceptance? I really do not understand, as you can see from the last few posts. Please enlighten me. I couldnt ask this question face to face for obvious reasons.

I am not baiting for arguement, really.

Originally posted by Crakeur
first, reread the comments you quoted. he says openly gay US actors. He's british. he's talking about others.

that said, take a look at your biggest american movie stars. they are not openly gay. why? because selling an hout of the cloest actor as an action star or a love interest, to close minded, bible thumping, middle america is no easy task. (snip) So, yes, Sir Ian is being fair and accurate in his comments about American Actors.

Yes, exactly that is the point he is making and the case quite clear here in America.

There are many rumoured to be gay, Tom Cruise, Keanu Reeves, Keifer Sutherland etc...and they are "big names" too, so it is considered very hush hush because it is the truth that if so...their fan base as women swooning AND men identifying with them as cool dudes that make the chicks swoon...both then are going "UGH!" "ICK" and there goes their marketablity instantly

Benevolent Heretic-You are the epitome of tolerance - save with those intolerant types

Okay, so this thread is like a month old, but I'll go ahead and reply. I am a 99% out gay man (meaning there are a few people I'm not yet out to)

First ON topic:
As it was pointed out, he is a British actor making a commentary on American society as seen through our film industry. The point he is making is that it is hard for an out gay American actor to gain leading roles in movies. Yes, "Hollywood" is seen as liberal, but they are not making movies for themselves. They are making movies for the mainstream population. Many people have a hard time separating the characters they see on a screen with the actors who play that role. Women in the 50s found Rock Hudson to be what they wanted to fall in love with. If they had known that Rock was more likely to have the hots for Tab Hunter than for Doris Day, his movies wouldn't have been able to hit it off as well with the public the movie studios were targeting.

Now consider actors today. Go back to that list that was posted on page 1. Out of the men that are listed on that page who are actors (not directors, designers, entertainment figures, etc), how many of these men have had successful careers as lead actors WHILE being out as a gay man? A pretty low number, if any.

Gay actors are expected to play gay roles. The studios typecast these men because the studios still perceive the American public to have a problem with gay actors playing straight roles. But then you have to consider the reverse. For lack of a better term, I'll call this the "Brokeback Factor": straight actors are praised for their ability and 'courage' to take on a gay role. As a friend of mine said "Its not hard to play a gay man, I do it every day!"

Second, to answer DaFunk (the off-topic discussion):
Why do some gay men flame? Because it is who they are. There really are men who are effeminate, who talk with lisps and have limp wrists. And, surprise, not all effeminate men are gay! As for wearing make-up, its not something I do. Some of my friends do, most don't. Do I go around waving a rainbow flag? No, neither do my friends or most of the other gay people I know.

I'm friends with flamers and people who easily "pass". [see note at bottom of entry] Personally, I've been told I can pass, but I know other times when I'm fairly obvious by my actions. Its not a conscious decision that I make nor is it a cry for help. It is the way I am and the way I act. I wish I could express better that it is just something that is rather than something that is forced.

On a similar note as mentioned in a previous post, the existence of gay culture and gay pride. Gay culture does exist through shared history and experiences. We have a history of oppression, whether you choose to see that or not. Green carnations, pink triangles, Nazi internment camps, Stonewall Riots, and more are a part of the past of gay and lesbian people. We have our own slang and words that sometimes slip over in to mainstream culture. Our community is diverse and not one stereotype or archetype can pin point every gay man and woman. The mainstream culture is not fully accepting of all things gay. We have gay pride events because we want to come together and celebrate who we are as people and how we and those before us have defied the oppression of the mainstream culture who at one time told us we were mentally ill and sexual devients who should be locked up or killed. We want to celebrate what we and those after us will do to help equality for all people. I live in a state where I can still be denied a job (whether I am flaming or not), marriage to someone I love, and adoption of children. All because of ignorance toward people who are different from the religiously influenced majority.

You got me on a soap box! If you have any questions about anything, feel free to U2U me. I'm actually doing a research project on the portrayal of gays in the media.

[Passing is obviously the ability for someone to pass as something they are not. This term has been used by the black community (black people with fairer skin can sometimes pass as white), the gay community (people who can act fairly straight), and often with trans people (being able to pass as the other sex before a sex change operation).]

Righto...thanks for that. I was waiting for someone with some perspective here. It just took you a while.

I was hoping this thread wouldnt die. Lets try to keep it alive. I would love to help shed some stereotypes and bad noise associated with gays. I just have a hard time taking "flamers" seriously. I will always see it as a cry for attention. I just refuse to condone advertisement of ones sexuality. If we want equality...folks need to stop trying to stand out in a crowd.

Originally posted by DaFunk13
If we want equality...folks need to stop trying to stand out in a crowd.

Ack! I so totally disagree with that. But of course you probably know that.

There is a difference between 'sameness' and equality. The whole point of equality is that two people can be VERY different, but equal. NOT the same, but having equal worth, equal rights, equal entitlements, equal validity, and so on.

Hun, if no one stood out in a crowd, then we'd all be a bunch of automatons! What about the life of the party? Or the wallflower? Should we all be some morphed combination of both?

What about the class clown, the nerd, the jock, the princess? They all stand out. Uniqueness, individuality, it's beautiful! I can't understand why anyone would want people to calm down and be more like other people. It just seems so... repressed. And repression sucks.

No, being uniquely yourself, and being stereotypically FLAMING queer are not the same thing. I am not advocating mandatory uniforms and haircuts here BH. Being gay doesnt mean you have to act stupid any more than being a hetero means you have to act macho and tuff. It is not "being yourself." It is a conscious decision...not automatic. We can stop assuming that it is necessary to be queer because you prefer the same sex, just as we dont assume that loving boobies means you have to act like a lumberjack trucker. You can be as flaming gay as you want. I dont care. This is part of the reason I love America. You can sport makeup, or a skirt, or a mohawk, or your pants half off your ass, or a friggin loin clothe if you want...but dont expect the whole world to rally behind your cause because you are not "accepted." Your sexuality is accepted...its the picture you paint that is shunned and even feared.

Originally posted by DaFunk13
No, being uniquely yourself, and being stereotypically FLAMING queer are not the same thing.
...
Being gay doesnt mean you have to act stupid any more than being a hetero means you have to act macho and tuff. It is not "being yourself." It is a conscious decision...not automatic.

How do you know that?

Your sexuality is accepted...its the picture you paint that is shunned and even feared.

I can understand that people are afraid of it. It's different than what they're used to. But the fact that someone is afraid of something doesn't mean that it's wrong or should be changed or is not natural.

People are free to not accept it. But I am not convinced that flaming behavior is not natural for them.

BTW, I am a heterosexual (for the most part) woman, in case anyone think I am defending my own station. I'm not. I'm defending every person'g right to freely be and express who they are, even if some people are afraid of it.

[edit on 28-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

I'm not trying to be the counter to "your defense of" gays. I will defend their rights to act however the hell they want also. As I said before, my problem isnt with acting queer. Its with acting queer and then wondering why people chuckle behind your back, or don't give them desired jobs, etc...
I know being queer isnt automatic because, as I have said before, I have a friend who is gay, and I work with a couple others, and not all of them are "flaming." I have even had this discussion with my pal. He has been very good with this debate (kinda reminds me of my favorite new mod...), and recently he even remotely agrees with me. He said he views being "flaming" as an act of either protest, or cry for attention, or a combination of the two.

I can only trust his expertise on the subject because he is much more qualified to make those statements than I. A hetero who speaks out only sounds hateful. It is difficult for me to convey this message in only words. Even with the ability to edit my own ignorance as I hammer away at this crappy keyboard, I have a hard time explaining this without sounding like a Nazi...I know.

And I know you arent gay BH. I didnt mean to word it that way. I really wish we had a few more gays that could enlighten me on this stuff. I am here to learn. I want to understand.

Quest for knowledge and all that jazz...

Originally posted by DaFunk13
I have a friend who is gay, and I work with a couple others, and not all of them are "flaming."

I just don't think that being gay automatically certifies someone to understand and judge the mindset of every gay person. I am a woman and I DO not know what makes some women bitches and others submissive and others flaming feminists and others hos.

Just because I am a woman does not mean that all women who act differently than me (even in the extreme) are faking. See what I mean? With all due respect to your unflaming gay friends, they don't have the handbook on how gay people behave, any more than I have the handbook on heterosexuality or womanhood.

(kinda reminds me of my favorite new mod...)

He said he views being "flaming" as an act of either protest, or cry for attention, or a combination of the two.

Very possible. But my point is that EVERYONE does something to get noticed or to be true to themselves. Nose rings, make-up, droopy drawers, dialects, and yes, some of these things scare people and would cause them to lose out on a job or turn someone off.

My point is that it's not for me to say what a person should compromise in looking for acceptance in this world. There are things I won't compromise. If someone told me I had to wear a dress and make-up for a certain job, I would be pissed and I would consider it discrimination. And I would be in the position that you say these flamers are - in that I want people to accept me for who I am. Yes, I choose not to wear dresses or make-up. It's who I am.

I think we all have traits we wouldn't compromise.

I can only trust his expertise on the subject because he is much more qualified to make those statements than I.

I don't buy that. Thinking that being gay makes him an expert on gayness is a fallacy.

I have a hard time explaining this without sounding like a Nazi...I know.

You don't sound like a Nazi to me. It sounds to me like you haven't applied this concept to everyone (as I think it should be).

Sure, people (ANY people) who act outside some stupid 'norm' and who are extravagant, eccentric, boisterous, over-the-top, and then cry about not being accepted by everyone are asking for a lot. It's just that this is not limited to gay flamers. That's really my point.

Plus, I don't think it's my place to judge what behavior is natural or normal for anyone else.

Quest for knowledge and all that jazz...

That's what it's all about.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
With all due respect to your unflaming gay friends, they don't have the handbook on how gay people behave, any more than I have the handbook on heterosexuality or womanhood.

Thinking that being gay makes him an expert on gayness is a fallacy.

Indeed, but he is much more qualified than a fan of the ladies like myself. This is my point. I just didnt want anyone to think I have formulated my opinions in my basement behind a computer screen. Once again...quest for knowledge and junk.

Sure, people (ANY people) who act outside some stupid 'norm' and who are extravagant, eccentric, boisterous, over-the-top, and then cry about not being accepted by everyone are asking for a lot.
...
Plus, I don't think it's my place to judge what behavior is natural or normal for anyone else.

Very much agreed!!!