I will blow myself up for 72 virgins.

Originally posted by riley
why would you assume the boys are not for the girls?
They do not condone honosexuality.

At first I thought they might be there for the girls, but
then three things came up.

First, many of the sites, one of which I posted, say that hell
is full of mostly women. If the women mostly go to hell, then
there won't be any need of having 'young fresh boys' to
service them in Paradise - because they won't be there.

Then I thought (in my Western thinking) that me, as a women,
wouldn't want a 'young fresh boy' to service me through all
eternity .. I'd want a stud muffin.

And last, even though homosexuality is technically frowned
upon, it is alive and well in Islam. I recently read an article
about a city in Afghanistan that is the equivalent to
San Francisco here in America as far as homosexuality goes.
The men all have young boys (around age 12) who they
keep for a few years to service them. When the boys
start to go through puberty, they get new boys and release
the others. I'll have to google up and see what the name
of that city was.

That wasn't the only 'gay city' ... there is definately an
underlying gay culture in Islam.

This would make a good seperate thread discussion!

I'll get back to you on the name of that city ... (*I'm off googling now ... *)


[edit on 2/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

Riley ... I'm back.

The 'gay city' is Kandahar -
www.globalgayz.com...

The city with the greatest reputation for active homosexuality was Kandahar, the headquarters of the Taliban. According to Mohammed, male couples “were even holding wedding ceremonies after the Taliban arrived.” The Taliban tried to control it, he explained, but “it was so common in Kandahar, they were able to embrace it.”

Apparently, traditions of homoerotic behavior have come down from ancient times in Afghanistan. These customs carry on to this day, according to Mohammed, at rural weddings where dancer-boys entertain male crowds, wearing anklets that make music as they move

article about homosexuality in Saudi Arabia
www.afrol.com...

In spite of such obstacles and hostility, same-sex relationships do take place, even in the most repressive countries. As one researcher from the Gulf told a Pan-Arab Conference on Sexuality held in Oxford in June 2000: "In prison same-sex sex is the norm. Saudi Arabia is just a large prison". Sometimes, the very segregation of the sexes allows for intimacy between people of the same gender without it being considered abnormal. As long as one keeps a low profile, such behaviour may generally go unchallenged

[edit on 2/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by geek101
for the love of God, get some education and stop parroting everything you hear.....there ARE no 72 virgins waiting for them. All that stuff comes from man made fabrications....NOT from the Quran.

Could you please clarify the proper context of these beliefs? Dispelling misconceptions now would be alot better than this thread turning into yet another islam bashing thread.

Originally posted by geek101
for the love of God, get some education ...
maybe you should read the Quran yourself,

Oh geek ... you are making this TOO easy!
for the love of God, get some education ...
maybe you should read the Quran yourself.
(to use your quote right back atchya!

Read up!!

Quran quotes about 'Paradise' ... sexual and include
both female sex slaves as well as boys for the homosexuals.
www.flex.com...




[edit on 2/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by I See You
So basicly females in heaven are just like sex slaves?

Not 'like' ... ARE.

The females in Paradise were made for the men.
They aren't Muslim women from earth. Most Muslim
women go to hell ... hell is mostly populated with
women you see. SOmetimes a muslim man will have
his earthly wife make it to heaven to share him with
the 72 sex servants ... but only if she doesn't 'annoy him'.

The links previously provided give some insight into this.



[edit on 2/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by riley
islam bashing thread.

It'll only be that if people bash the religion .. not if
they discuss it, learn about it, and explore what
exactly is in the Quran and Islam religious practices
and beliefs.

To tell the truth of the belief isn't bashing ..
it's discussing. If explatives are included in
the discussion ... then that could be bashing.

(Mocking ... now THAT could happen.)





[edit on 2/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by riley

Could you please clarify the proper context of these beliefs? Dispelling misconceptions now would be alot better than this thread turning into yet another islam bashing thread.

these beliefs come from the hadith, which are man made collections that are assumed to be sayings of muhammad. The quran mentions "pure companions" for both righteous men and women. How that got translated into virgins just for mens sexual pleasure tells us alot about people.

the women in hell thing, that too comes from the hadith. And it is precisely these kind of "sayings" that let me know they are nothing but man made attempts to opress women. The quran mentions no such thing.

Quran quotes about 'Paradise' ... sexual and include
both female sex slaves as well as boys for the homosexuals.
www.flex.com...

yeah...thats a really non biased site you referenced there...lol
"high bosomed virgins" !!!!!!!!!!...LMAO.
Ok, the verse in the site YOU referenced said:

"....and high- bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup" (78:31-33 (the end bit is from 33)

lets have a look at some of the more established translators:

Asad: "and splendid companions well matched"

Yusuf Ali: "Companions of equal age"

In other verses, "houris" has been translated as virgins, which is wrong. It means companions. And they are there for both men and women.

As for the boys who will serve....where does it say...sex????...in fact, it says...."youths who do not age"....you are assuming alot arent you?....maybe thats just the kind of mind you have. Added onto that....it talks about the youths are (like the companions) there for the righteous...men and women

Thanks anyway for the laugh that gave me...high bosomed virgins...LOL






[edit on 12-2-2006 by geek101]

[edit on 12-2-2006 by geek101]

Originally posted by geek101
more established translators:

Yeah ... you mean translations that better fit into your
sugar coated wanna-be version.

I can go out and find all sorts of different 'translations'
of scripture. Any translation I want to fit how I want
Christianity to be molded.

You have picked a PC modernized version.

Those in the middle east don't have the sugared up ones.

Also - your Yusif Ali has made FATAL 'translation' ERRORS
- at least according to quran scholars
answering-islam.org.uk...

www.mpac.org...

Try again



[edit on 2/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

[edit on 2/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

if i could have 72 virgins id have my fun and lock em up in my house so nobody knows about my adventures, but dont tell anyone!

Oh Im sorry, the real translation is 72 vasectomies..hmm seems like the guys got the short end of that deal.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Yeah ... you mean translations that better fit into your
sugar coated wanna-be version.

its got sod all to do with translations, i am more than aware of how some translators take liberties and add things in parenthesis, or change the meaning of a word, which is why i actually CHECK things in arabic first, but the fact is, in that verse...there is NO ARABIC for the words you said there were.

But please, since you are such an obvious expert on arabic, i would like YOU to point out to me the words "high bosomed virgins" in the arabic text.

I look forward to your reply. :shk:

Looks like you shot that one out of the water

I wish I could understand Arabic as well, I could recite verses from the Qur'an but I've no idea what I'm saying

I just gotta hope the translation I read is not far off.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Also - your Yusif Ali has made FATAL 'translation' ERRORS
- at least according to quran scholars

[edit on 2/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

I just have to add this from personal experience. Back in the mid 80's I was going to Morocco to meet a friend in the Peace Corps. There was already at the time controversy between the beliefs and I wanted to understand a bit more before I went.

It was interesting because it came up quite a bit when I was there (from muslims) if I knew anything of their book, and I told them yes, I had read it. They all responded the same with a concerned look on their faces - but did I read the right one? I told them the one I read was the one by A Yusif Ali and their response was relief. Yes, according to them I had read the right one.

But of course, the world has changed.......

Do women bombers get 72 male virgins?

Anyway you put it, I would NOT want 72 virgins.....I mean think about it.
72 non experienced men or women to have sex with....hmm yea not for me!:bnghd:

I hate to add to this, but oh well............I'm game for one!!!!!!!
Send'em this way, if you please:w::w:

I never really quite believed the whole 72 virgins thing..........maybe thats just me though...........lol


I don't think that the bombers even believe that bs. Then again they are not that smart to begin with.

Originally posted by Beachcoma

I just gotta hope the translation I read is not far off.

you'd be surprised sometimes at the liberties they do take. I'll give you one example. There is a verse which some muslims like to take as meaning that music and singing is forbidden....the verse goes something like;
"those who partake in idle talk and lead men off the path off God"

the ironic thing is, is that in arabic...."idle talk" is "ahadeeth" (hadith)

i was astounded when i started studying, to learn that the word "hadith" is in there so many times and not once is it used in reference to what muslims today know as hadith.


For Flyers Fan:

Yeah....thats what i thought

Looking at it as lawful contract, 72 virgins for eternity in exchange for martyedom, I'd be wary as I would with any legal binding contract. 72 virgins for eternity would mean that they'd be virgins for eternity. I mean if you took the virginity of one of them then there are no longer 72 virgins. Right ?

So it could be that infinite celebacy with 72 virgins in exchange for my martyedom is the deal and I'm not convinced that's in my short, medium, and long term interests.

I dunno about virgins, but...

Maybe for 72 hoes. I mean, once you're dead, you don't have to worry about STDs. Plus, the hoes would already know what to do; all those virgins would have to be schooled to the game. In that case, maybe.