Three strange things in the world, your thoughts please.

Loving war more than peace, loving excess more than sufficiency, and loving falsehood more than truth.

Loving war more than peace, what it is that people enjoy in violence or confrontation? It seems as a whole everyone would rather fight than get along, group mentality, the collective conscience. Yet when asked individually most they say the don't.

Loving exess more than sufficiency, bigger, more, can't get enough. This I feel is commercialism, consumers are made to think it has to be, or else. What happend to getting back to basics, not just on this site of ATS, but as a people in general. Are not the things we have enough, consider what you have, compared to those in a third world country. We eat every day, we have shelter and education, are clothed and don't fear the next time our village is attacked, we may be next. Take not for granted, for you are online, are you not.

Loving falsehood more than truth, every day this can be seen. What is it entertainment, enjoyment, or just selective ignorance, only you know why. Yet it is proliferated like weapons on the black market, ever present yet denied by those who participate. To not speak against it, is the same as being for it. Yet less and less it goes unspoken, encouraged by inaction.

The race of man is three things; who we think we are, who others think we are, and who we really are.

United we stand, the rest is , not an option.

Let it be known, those who knew, tried.

As far as having excess is concerned, to me it is the quickest way to get nothing, meaning; or consumerist lifestyle takes and takes and gives nothing back but destruction.

Geez, where I live they want to put in yet another mall , bigger than the biggest one we already have, to do this they must destroy me and my brothers favourite stomping ground, they already destroyed a good portion of it, for what, another damned hardware store we don't even need.

All for what? To sell more consumer goods so some folks can get richer than they already are.

Sometimes I wish it would all collapse and we could live off the land, but that ain't even feasable as the amount of natural land that we could survive on has been, or is being destroyed.
Not only that but we are all so removed from nature that we are dependent on the very things that will bring our doom.

It's gonna' be a wonderfull future!

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Loving war more than peace, what it is that people enjoy in violence or confrontation?

I think fighting for something makes a person feel important. It makes their desires valid. If I have to fight for something, it becomes valuable. If it's handed to me, it has lesser value. I can feel righteous, justified, like I really worked to make a difference if I fight for something. ?

Loving exess more than sufficiency, bigger, more, can't get enough. This I feel is commercialism,

I think you are right on here with your evaluation. Keeping up with the Jonses, the better job, the bigger TV, the fancier computer. It all feeds people's insecurities. I see people go into terrible debt just to drive the jazzy brand new red sports car and own those huge flat TVs (I forget what they're called!) but then not pay their child support or taxes! It's all about a projected image of having it together when in reality, they're totally scared.

Loving falsehood more than truth, every day this can be seen.

The only way I can speak to this one is to say that if the truth won't get someone what they want, they'll lie to get it. I hate lying but I see it every day. And it's almost always to get what the person wants, whether it be a job, a 'friend', support, money or to stay out of trouble, to save face... Lying has come in real handy in our current state.
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Just want to say that I love peace, I live WELL within my means (we owe nothing but the mortgage) and I don't own a cell phone or any other fancy electronics. We conserve and recycle. And honesty is almost a religion with me. So I fit the model of denying all three, yet I know as a whole we embrace them all.

Very interesting.

The race of man is three things; who we think we are, who others think we are, and who we really are.

I'm sure these three components are at least slightly different in me, but (and I may be misjudging myself) I think they're all pretty close.

The only way I can speak to this one is to say that if the truth won't get someone what they want, they'll lie to get it.

And if you are honest, you become a loser.
Liers beget liers, it's a survival tactic.
You can't compete with a lie, you will mostly always be outdone.

Honest!

The Basic Truth is Uttered, Toadmund!

Greed leads to Conflict which leads to Deceit.

Deep in the human limbic system, the "Lizard Brain" some have called it, resides the source of our basic urges; the need to eat, to reproduce, and of course, the need for self-preservation.

These urges are innate to ALL humans, indeed, to all higher lifeforms. And they are so powerful that they influence, and sometimes even outrightly dictate, our actions.

Even beyond the restraint of reason.

Advertisers, politicians, and clerics all know the immense power of these drives. They have spent trillions of dollars and thousands of years developing the means to manipulate these basic drives in the populations they have sought to control. And we ourselves, as individuals, are not even beyond the power of our basic selves: a thirsty man will drink his own waste, a hungry man will eat his fallen companion, a horny man will do almost anything to slake his desire.

And if pressed to explain the logic behind his actions, each will have a perfectly sound rationale for what we would normally consider truly irrational behaviour.

Perhaps, under the duress of a modern, information dense/intense life environment, we are witnessing the eclipse Critical Thought, or at least, the abetted de-emphasis of critical thinking, in favor of a a more visceral, emotion (ie.; basic drive) based thought process?

To paraphrase a contraversial statement once uttered by a Barbie doll:

"Thinking is hard!"

Loving war more than peace

I don't think many people, individually, ever want war. It's always the rulers, or a group mentality, as you said, that wants it. And in modern times, that group mentality seems to be fed to us via media, etc., by our rulers. If it's what they want, it's what we want. Only nut jobs would ever want it, imo.

Loving exess more than sufficiency

I think this is another mentality pressed upon us by Western society, where capitalism is prominent. With capitalism, more and bigger usually are considered to be better, even when there's no point or use. In other cultures, this probably isn't going to be as much of an issue. Native Americans come to mind.

Loving falsehood more than truth

Something else that's probably impressed upon us by society, like the "truthiness," as Colbert mentions, of our media.

I don't think any of those three things would occur in a healthy human being that has not been exposed to our kinds of cultural influences, and they seem sort of counter-productive to anything natural to man's intellectual/etc. progressions.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by bsbray11]

People only do things to make their lives better, not because they're evil. If you think there is, you're wrong. People conform to religions not because they care or because of faith, it's because they're scared of death and what happens after it, or other concepts of that nature.

A woman is trapped in a burning car that's about to explode. A man walks by and sees what's happening and risks his life to save her. It's not because he "cares". He's thinking about himself. If he doesn't help then his life will be worse due to the unbearable guilt. Some people get this more than other people. I guess you call these people heros.

Thats how life works. There is not a single thing any being has ever done that doesn't benefit themselves in some way spiritually or physically no matter how selfless it seems. Thats why my faith in my religion is waning.

There is no such thing as good and evil, just what people want and desire.

Is this a waste of time? Am I just stating the obvious?

I'm sorry if I offend anyone (If you think about it even in this sentence I'm contradicting what I just said). I can't help how I feel. Perhaps I'm just in a bitter mood.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by hobo_321]

Originally posted by hobo_321
A woman is trapped in a burning car that's about to explode. A man walks by and sees what's happening and risks his life to save her. It's not because he "cares". He's thinking about himself. If he doesn't help then his life will be worse due to the unbearable guilt.

I wonder, for someone so self-centered, why would they ever feel guilt in the first place?

You havn't offended anyone, being honest and stateing what you feel and think is what this thread is about. The only offense would be reading this and not replying.

If only more who did read this had replied, visitors included, it wouldn't hurt them to join instead of just reading all the time. Oh well, maybe some day my posts will have equal an number of replies as it does views. Then again this sort of thing might just be over their heads, too far gone to see the relevance.

No matter, I thank those of you who were considerate enough to participate.

As others stated here, fear of death explains many of these anti-social and inhuman behaviors. It's especially people who have political power or great wealth inside the system that are the most sensitive to this fear of death... as they are afraid of losing their "empire", which means death for them.

"Loving war more than peace"
In my toughts i feel that people in general don't feel happy with life in general. The reasons for that are multiple, the main one is the lack of Justice in today's world. The second one is the lack of opportunities to fulfill the anxiety(status, wealth, others) that today's societies impose on people.

People become frustrated and anger builds up, the easier way to release the pressure is through violence.

Quote ".....when asked individually most they say the don't"
Yes they do, but it's just a wishful thinking in words.
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Loving exess more than sufficiency
sufficiency means what is enough for people to live well, but that is relative, because what is good for one person might not be enough for other.And in this world people compares themselfs with other people who belong to higher social/material levels were they would like to be one day.

There's a driving force for this, the rules of economy, providing this way the fuel for this to happen without end at sight.
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Loving falsehood more than truth
One phrase for this one: "People believe in what they choose to believe in"

If people believe in false than it's true for them, they choose that way it's an option. But why? It's easier to accept, in the moral system?
In my oppion people choose falsehood because of two things:

1º Reality is cruel and people tend to ignore this point ->lack of courage to see life as it is.

2º People have somekind of interests in the falsehood they support.



Peace
Crustas

Rather than cover the excellent groundwork set out by most of the posters here,
my thoughts are along a different plane. It seems to me that what we see today is an unusual
result of having your cake and eating it too. People are different as a category based upon
their level of existance. Basic survival tends to generate action from an "instinct". When you
get beyond the basics, thinking occurs. We overide our instincts and can react more logically.
When the needs for basic survival become a distant memory, or have never been experianced,
as in Western Society today, I believe a certain laziness towards thinking sets in. That would allow instinct
to become dominant, but grossly malformed since the survival need is not there, another outlet for the
instinctual response would come out.

Basic survival - Fight or Flight ?
Malformed - Loving War more than Peace ? (Somehow the Superbowl fits in here too.)

Basic survival - Anything more than sufficiency will get you through a rainy day. Or bad times.
Malformed - Loving excess more than sufficiency

Basic survival - all effort goes to surviving, No idle time to fill with "entertainment".
Malformed - Loving falsehood more than truth. (entertainment ?)

Very thought provoking replies, again thanks for your input as it is much appreciated.

With almost 1,000 views and not even 2 pages of replies, one can see or not see as it is, how others find this of interest.
The triad is of old Irish and I shall say Celtic knowledge. There are hundreds of verses that are among the ancient triads, whose history stretches back before 800 bce, almost 1,000 years before Christ. Before even the conquest of rome upon Gaul and most of north western Europe for that matter, the wisdom was known. Even then, it is early in our history as people.

For something that spoke of the times then, it speaks very well for them now. This enduring wisdom I've found to be a great way to guide myself along the perilous path of todays world. It has been kept and preserved with out any religious pressure, no need to contest it against one theological philosophy or another.

Just simple words of truth, echoing from the ages past, reminding us of the history that repeats.

It's all about hypocrisy. Instead of realizing we are all the same, most of us live in a fantasy world where we are Gods and want everything for ourselves.

Hmmm makes me remember a recurring thought I thought yet again the other day whereas individually we don't think that what we do as individuals makes a bit of difference.
But at the same time we whine and complain when all the sins add up to a whole and affect us all in a negative way.

Like driving a gas guzzler.
leaving unneccesary lights on.
Shopping at controversial chain retailers (Mall-Wart)
producing waste
etc.

Man loves war because we are still in a tribal stage of social development.
In many tribal societies, warfare is a right of passage.

We love excess because raw materials help us fight wars and sometimes wars are fought to get more stuff or keep the stuff you have

Falsehoods over truth is a relative new paradigm and masterp nailed it. Mass communication allows us to live in a fantasy world where we are Gods.

I'll give this a shot, but I mixed the order up, because I think the order is somewhat key (at least the way I see it). I would like to state for the record though, I don't subscribe to any of the three personally.

Originally posted by ADVISOR

Loving exess more than sufficiency

To me this is pretty basic. It stems from a sense of something missing, an emptiness of sorts, a void that needs to be filled. It is sad that for most who need for nothing this takes hold. When your daily existance does not require that your every moment needs to be concerned with mere survival, for some reason this void comes creeping in. The irony is how many people just don't see that excess does nothing to solve the problem. I could go on for hours on this one but I'll leave it at that.

Loving falsehood more than truth

Boiling it down to the bottom, it's just easier that way. Putting truth first in your life requires acknowledgement and a sense of responsibility to it. It comes with a lot of "baggage". Is it worth it? Yes! Is your average person going to choose it? No.

Loving war more than peace

It's quite possible this stems from the first two. Looking at the big picture the gaps and flaws left in ones life from those scenarios are going to cause problems. Of course there's that whole territorial/dominance/greed ego thing that comes into play here too.