NEWS: Cartoon protests turn deadly

LazyD, have you ever seen Africa?
North America?

Sorry, but Christian's have for well over a thousand years killed people and forced their views onto other people and in parts of Africa it still happens.

Just for the record...

the main images that are causing such uproar, weren't even the cartoons published.

The imam of Denmark admitted that they added "flesh and bone" to the report that said these cartoons were offensive...
so that the majority of the images were not even cartoons, but very badly photocopied pics of other images that "they interpreted" to be the prophet...

like the pic of the winner of this years french pig calling contest... I think he actually won due to the pig ears and snout he had on...

But take that pic, and say it was a pic of someone mocking the prophet, and it would be offensive yes... but not true

The interveiwer pressed pretty hard to get that admittal...

what they were basically admitting is
"there were offensive cartoons, and here are some photocopies of other unrelated images to piss you off, like we are..."

makes about as much sense as pissing in the wind... you are only going to soak yourself...

Furthermore, the danish cartoons were printed in the Egyptian Newspaper Al Fagr on October 17, 2005...

external image
(click on the image to enlarge and see the date)




this is inside of that newspaper (source)

.....without any outrage from Muslims within Egypt against the publishing.

nobody in Egypt protested,

nobody wanted an apolgy for the re-publishing

no death threads against Al Fagr

nobody stormed the embassy of Egypt somewhere

nobody burned the egyptian flag...


[edit on 8-2-2006 by Riwka]

Really Riwka?

Why did the ambassadors from Islamic countries [11 I do believe], on October the 19th try to meet Anders Fogh Rasmussen but he did not desire to meet with them and discuss the matter. He brushed it off and then this whole situation began. [In fact, NewsNight said there were minor protests in October but ramadan tends to over shadow it.]

[edit on 8/2/2006 by Odium]

Source
Diplomatic protests by governments of Islamic countries started in October 2005, escalating to the closure of embassies.

[edit on 8/2/2006 by Odium]

Originally posted by Odium

Really Riwka?

Yes, really Odium. If there where ANY protest against Egypt for reprinting those cartoons, for sure the world would know about it. But: there was nothing...

I also did not hear that Saudi Arabia or Iran planned to boycott Egypt now, like they plan to do it with every European country that reprinted the cartoons

If it was sooo offensive for Muslimes to look at those cartoons: How it comes, that then a 'Muslim media' intentionally reprints them?

It needs the FAKE-cartoons from that Danish Iman to orchester the outrage some month later...



[edit on 8-2-2006 by Riwka]

Do you have the whole article or should we take it in the context you desire to give it? If they were reporting it to Muslim's, it is likely they will not cause such an outcry as when the Danish newspaper published them in their own context.

Originally posted by Odium

Do you have the whole article or should we take it in the context you desire to give it? If they were reporting it to Muslim's,

Odium,

Al Fagr is a newspaper within Egypt - it is a scan of the page of that newspaper of Oct 17, 2005 (as you can see above).

Al Fagr printed the cartoons - and of course a newspaper within Egypt does report to Muslims. But Muslims have not been very interested during October 2005...It has been Ramadan then.

Looks like Condi goes on the offensive and blames Iran and Syria as the culprits.



The Blame Game
It's always someone elses fault, as we learn to make more excuses for our current immoralities by circulating blame. But Christians had the Crusades, but but miltant Islam burnt down embassies, but but the Spanish had the Inquisition, but but fanatical muslim blows up babies and kids....and on and on it goes.

No IQ or brain required. A game for all ages with no winners, solve nothing, the past in never learned from, remain irresponsible, generate more hate, and point a finger today.

It seems to me that Syria and Iran have a lot to apologize for here: Syria for not controlling the protestors which led to embassies being torched, and Iran, for inciting more violence by promising to publish Holocaust cartoons.

The presidents of both countries should be calling for an end to the violence.

Yet it was President Bush who was on TV calling for peace yesterday.

Six Degrees Of George Bush

Originally posted by jsobecky
Yet it was President Bush who was on TV calling for peace yesterday.

He should have apologized.

After all, it must be his fault somehow, since everything else is.

If only God had such power.

Meanwhile, I humbly suggest that those responsible for the violence which has resulted from all this are the people who have committed it.

Also there is a definate hypocrisy here. There are people locked away in jail because they voiced their opinion that the holocaust was exagerated/faked. If you defend this Danish papers freedom of expression in printing something that offends muslims, you have to defend everyones freedom of expression, not just those you agree with.

How do you know he didn't? Personally I'm now on board the "Free Speech" regardless bandwagon because of this incident. All hate speech laws in Europe should be repealed. Policing speech and thought is EVIL, not as much as actively carrying out NAZI like Eugenics programs and Final Solutions and what not, but it comes in a close second.....

Regen good post, you got my last way above of the month for that one. It seems all people want to do INCLUDING THE SO-CALLED MODERATE MUSLIMS ON THIS BOARD is point fingers.

The collective average IQ of this message board has dropped at least 12 points since this idiotic situation began.

I am ashamed at the Racist Warmongers who are trying to use this as a platform to say "I told you them Muslims were a bunch of Savages". Bigots.

I'm also ashamed at the attitude of the so called Moderate Muslims who don't think it's their duty to try and control their Fanatics because they [Whiney snively voice]"Fear for their lives"[/Whiney snively voice] Cowards.

I'm also ashamed of my fellow Left Wingers who are not speaking out against this violence but using this to lay more blame at the feet of the entire western world. Idiots.

Basically what I'm saying is YOU SHOULD ALL BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.(The groups I've mentioned, to the sane rational people like Regen this does not apply)

Of course the chances of anyone taking this post to heart is SLIM TO NONE. Whatever. I could care less wat you're response to this post is, I've had it with this #ing thread and situation. Later. I've washed my hands clean of this entire situation. I'm not involved and will just ignore threads like these in the future. G'Day.

[edit on 9-2-2006 by sardion2000]

Friends Of My Enemies

For whatever it's worth, Al Qaeda's publically-stated strategy for achieving their objectives is to pit Muslims against the rest of the world in a religious war.

Consequently, those who support the isolation and polarization of Muslims as a group are allies of Al Qaeda.

I recommend choosing friends wisely.

If you are in grade 3 and you make fun of another kid, whether just verbally or drawing a picture of him in a demeaning way, when he throws a temper tantrum he will get in trouble from the teacher.

So how is it acceptable for an entire COUNTRY to throw a temper tantrum when someone pokes a little bit of fun at them?

It is my opinion from constant observation that they just really love destroying stuff, even when it's in their own country they'll still blow the crap out of it, just for the sake of making destruction. And they will take any chance at doing this, including things as small as simple caricatures. Maybe this is just the way that the media slants it, but whenever I see something about muslims, they are always lighting fires or shooting stuff, or threatening do both. I rack it up to just an all-out lack of discipline. Like honestly. What does destroying your own stores and houses show to the people who made the cartoon? Just proves them right, if nothing else.

The Middle East is like that spaz kid in class that nobody likes, on a global scale.

[edit on 9-2-2006 by Yarcofin]

Fish-Eye Lens

Originally posted by Yarcofin
Maybe this is just the way that the media slants it, but whenever I see something about muslims, they are always lighting fires or shooting stuff, or threatening do both.

Maybe so.

The media spotlight has a way of magnifying things to the point of extreme distortion.

In this discussion I see the classic unrepresentative sample fallacy working overtime.

In other news, over a billion Muslims didn't burn an embassy today.

As far as I can tell, there are no Islamic portraits of Muhammad, in fact the ban on images, or at the very least, their strong discouragement, is why Mosques don't have any pictorial art in them like catherdals the same age do. In fact as far as I have been able to determine, the only areas in the Islamic world to have a strong tradition of pictorial art is Persia and Mogul India, and adjacent areas.

These people out on the streets protesting are obviously being manipulated but manulipation does not end in the Middle East...remember all the hype in the build up to george's splendid little war? The Clear Channel sponsered rallies, and the fired up hostility to those of us who had the nerve (or gonads) to actually protest against it? I do, add to that all the media cheerleading and the big hype about being enbedded with the troops (more like being in bed with the admin.) and you had a major propaganda event in this country, but God forbid if anyone should actually call it that.

Propaganda: Def: Their Lies
Public Information: Def: Our Lies.

Originally posted by Majic
Fish-Eye Lens

Originally posted by Yarcofin
Maybe this is just the way that the media slants it, but whenever I see something about muslims, they are always lighting fires or shooting stuff, or threatening do both.

Maybe so.

The media spotlight has a way of magnifying things to the point of extreme distortion.

In this discussion I see the classic unrepresentative sample fallacy working overtime.

In other news, over a billion Muslims didn't burn an embassy today.

Very well said. Right after 9/11 Bill Maher had a Pakastaini musician on "Politically Incorrect" and after the musician stated that the majority of Muslims are moderates and don't like their religion higjacked by thugs, Maher asked if that was so then why weren't they out in the streets protesting. The musicians response was quite telling:

"When was the last time you heard of moderates taking to the street about anything?"

There may not be images of Mohammed in mosques, but why is there a giant depiction of him in the Supreme Court, right above the judge's seat?



The fact is, this definately isn't the first time he has been drawn. So why is there such a huge outrage only now? Okay, so it's insulting. But it's not like the first time someone has made a cartoon or joke about muslims either.



[edit on 9-2-2006 by Yarcofin]

Selective Outrage

Originally posted by Yarcofin
So why is there such a huge outrage only now?

Perhaps because someone finds such a thing useful at this time.

There is no such thing as a spontaneous demonstration.

Who benefits from these protests?

I suspect the answer leads to more than one culprit.

Originally posted by Majic
The media spotlight has a way of magnifying things to the point of extreme distortion.

In this discussion I see the classic unrepresentative sample fallacy working overtime.

In other news, over a billion Muslims didn't burn an embassy today.

I'm sorry, but I don't see that. I often hear complaints that all muslims are being blamed for the actions of a few. Granted, there is an occasional person who will blame an entire group for the actions of a few, but that person is the exception rather than the rule.

The media doesn't skew the facts, either. The fact is, embassies are being burned, people have been killed because of these cartoons. Who did the burning? Muslims, that's who.

It seem that there is an attempt to deflect the spotlight from those responsible for the violence by playing victim. Facts are facts, however, and until those responsible are held responsible, the violence will continue.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
...

The Blame Game
It's always someone elses fault, as we learn to make more excuses for our current immoralities by circulating blame. But Christians had the Crusades, but but miltant Islam burnt down embassies, but but the Spanish had the Inquisition, but but fanatical muslim blows up babies and kids....and on and on it goes.

No IQ or brain required. A game for all ages with no winners, solve nothing, the past in never learned from, remain irresponsible, generate more hate, and point a finger today.

I kind of wish I were a cartoonist. I think I would draw a cartoon with Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha, and what the Hell... Throw in Zoroaster just to attempt a balance of some kind, all standing on a cloud with their arms around each other, looking down, sadly, on the planet, shaking their collective heads, and saying, each in his own language... "They just don't get it".

I'm passing along a Way Above for this one thread that really makes sense in a simple way.