100's of Muslims protest Muhammad cartoons in London…But how many protest terror?

I think this just shows that while many of us violently disagree with each other on any given topic. We all agree that we have the right to say it, and the right to disagree violently.

Having said that, common sense also says that there should be a limit to that right. My opinion is (drum roll please), it stops at acts of violence of any sort, after that all bets are off, and you reap what you sow.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
I am listening to Dennis Prager and he offered what I think is a great fundamental reason for the differences between Islamic and western culture. He explained that western culture, from a moral standpoint, is based on right and wrong. In the Islamic world, morality is based on honor and shame. This, he explained, is the reason for "honor killings" whereby a member of a family can be killed if it's perceived that person dishonored the family. This also, he explained, is the reason for the riots---Islam, and specifically Muhammad, has been dishonored by the cartoons.

LOL, we're both listening to the same radio show.

Max

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Freedom_for_sum,

I think you've hit the nail right on the head. I personally see morality in terms of right and wrong, but I cannot deny that even the muslim malays in my country tend to see it in terms of honour and shame.

Thanks Beachcoma; But I'd like to point out that this is not my idea. This moment of clarity was brought to you by Dennis Prager, a sydicated am radio talk show host. I highly recommend him as he often uses logic to explain things. He also happens to be very religious; which I think is somewhat a detractor. But; you gotta take the good with the bad.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
He explained that western culture, from a moral standpoint, is based on right and wrong. In the Islamic world, morality is based on honor and shame.

That makes a lot of sense and helps us all to understand WHY they're so offended and why it's necessary (in their eyes) to regain their honor. They seem like crazy people otherwise.

Just so everyone knows, I'm all for understanding and even not being purposfully offensive (in most cases) but when, occassionally, this kind of thing comes up in the world, I cannot sympathize with striking out in anger because someone was offended. I cannot make excuses for someone lighting buildings on fire and causing deaths because they were offended. I cannot agree that suppression of a right that many of our ancestors fought for and died for - to prevent hurting someone's feelings.

As regards the John Lennon thing, they burned their own posessions. No biggie. And as far as I know, no one was killed.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
That makes a lot of sense and helps us all to understand WHY they're so offended and why it's necessary (in their eyes) to regain their honor. They seem like crazy people otherwise.

I agree BH; But I'm lost as to how rioting, burning buildings, and killing is honorable; or how it will restore the honor they perceive was lost by the cartoons.

[edit on 6-2-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Beachcoma, and Dennis Prager have made their points elequently as usual. I'm just having trouble with understanding how honor is restored by burning building and rioting.

[edit on 6-2-2006 by seagull]

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
He explained that western culture, from a moral standpoint, is based on right and wrong. In the Islamic world, morality is based on honor and shame.

I agree with this 100%. But there is a problem:

I don’t rule myself, my family, my peers, or the strangers I meet on the street with the “honor rule”, I base my interaction on the “right and wrong rule”. And I will defend that practice with extreme prejudice and violence if need be.

And that’s the problem. Don’t impose on me; if you do I will defend myself. And that’s all non Muslims can do, is defend against them. It’s up to Muslims themselves to control their forced Islamic law compliance on other cultures.

Don’t come into my house and tell me what to do, and don’t call me from your house and tell me you don’t like what I am doing in my mine.




[edit on 6-2-2006 by skippytjc]

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum

I agree BH; But I'm lost as to how rioting, burning buildings, and killing is honorable; or how it will restore the honor they perceive was lost by the cartoons.

Look like we're in agreement yet again. A toast, may we agree on more issues, and if we don't, agree to disagree

They've really lost it. They've missed the point. They do not see that their actions go against what Muhammad (s.a.w) teaches. Against what the Quran says about not causing destruction on the face of the earth.

[EDIT: formatting]

[edit on 6-2-2006 by Beachcoma]

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
I agree BH; But I'm lost as to how rioting, burning buildings, and killing is honorable; or how it will restore the honor they perceive was lost by the cartoons.

I don't expect to understand fully, either. Extremists of all persuasions do things that I certainly don't understand.

However, I can get a little glimpse (think Klingon) of someone feeling the need to show their God (or other deity) that they are fighting for his honor. Their Prophet has been disgraced (they think) and they must make it up to him (?) by taking action against the disgracers! Q'Pla!

I guess, basically, think Klingon.

@ BH

I've never realized that till you pointed it out.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Look like we're in agreement yet again. A toast, may we agree on more issues, and if we don't, agree to disagree

Absolutely!! Freedom-for-sum

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
However, I can get a little glimpse (think Klingon) of someone feeling the need to show their God....

DARNIT BH, Ya beat me to it!! I was also thinking about the Klingon comparison (from the original Star Trek series.

Freedom_for_sum,

I'm sorry, I'm not that well versed in the Qur'an, but I'm almost 100% certain it was covered in my final exams for Islamic Studies in Form 5 which I practically aced (and that was nearly 7 years ago)

I have heard that many muslims believe that Norway are continously printing the cartoons over and over in their free press. Not true, in fact it´s a big lie. A Christian newspaper reprinted the danish cartoons once. It happened only once, and they regret doing it as well. Now they burn norwegian embassies. In Syria, in Lebanon, in Iran, and-so-on. There is a war. But the imams on the other hand, they are their heroes. Even though they were the ones who put on display fake Muhammed pictures with pig nose, animal sex and pedophilia. This is the works of Al Qaeda, I tell you...

Originally posted by Beachcoma
I'm sorry, I'm not that well versed in the Qur'an, but I'm almost 100% certain it was covered in my final exams for Islamic Studies in Form 5 which I practically aced (and that was nearly 7 years ago)

No problem Beachcoma; I've taken an interest in Islam and the Qur'an and Hadith (since 911) and have difficulty seeing the "peaceful" elements for those things that are not Islamic.

I GE'd your coordinates and see that you're in Kuala Lumpur. What river is that just to your west?

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
I've taken an interest in Islam and the Qur'an and Hadith (since 911) and have difficulty seeing the "peaceful" elements for those things that are not Islamic.

There is only peace according to Islam. This is what I've been able to gather.....

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum

I GE'd your coordinates and see that you're in Kuala Lumpur. What river is that just to your west?

The big river? It's the Klang River. The whole region is called the Klang Valley.

Originally posted by CogitoErgoSum1
There is only peace according to Islam. This is what I've been able to gather.....

There is only peace for those who are Muslim. For everyone else, there is hell. The Qur'an is quite explicit about this. And, in fact, during war (most Arab Muslims believe the West is at war with Islam) the Qur'an is explicit about what violent acts are permitted against disbelievers, Christians, Jews, idolators, and evil livers. There are only two states of existence from the perspective of Islam: Dar al-islam (House of Islam) and Dar al-Harb (house of war). If you're not in one; you're in the other.

[edit on 6-2-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

I'm not very religious. but I think maybe there is some sort of God out there, I'll wait 'till I'm old and dead to figure that one out!!!

But after these protests I think its time to put country before religion, if these small groups of extremists hate Europe and this Green and pleasent land so much then maybe its time we start deporting these people for treason and for advocating crimes against its people.

There are many cultures and faiths here in England, these people come here for all the right reasons, and it's great to have such a diverse community, but when people start waving these types of slogans about I think that it maybe time for a change-which is very sad IMHO!!!

There was lots of condemnation from all religions after the London bombings. I think its in bad taste that these people taunt the rest of the world with threats about bombings, beheadings and dress-up as suicide bombers to protest about a "cartoon" in the city that tried to come together after extremist acts, all this does is create a bigger divide between cultures.

[edit on 6-2-2006 by Kurokage]

I have so much difficulty relating to violence bringing honour. I mean, it just doesn't gel....but then islam is not my 'thing' so I guess its hard to comment on that which I do not know.

I understand the whole honour deal thing.....
But doesn't murder and inciting violence cause one to lose honour all over again? so whats the point? Far more will be accomplished by dealing with this through more peaceful avenues. Does it take a scientist to comprehend that?

What scares me more is that this cartoon has now united ALL muslims and that includes militants. The terrorists now have this mess feeding the hatred for the west that they have wanted for SO long.

Over the years I've seen many a cartoon or south park show depicting the pope or church in some sarcastic or amusing way.
Do we take to the streets in violence? No.
I know which 'religion' I'd prefer to be with.