Where are the Columns of Hercules?

Originally posted by Geticus
About the name of Iovan Iorgovan I found this note of N Densusianu at Part 3 Ch. XVII.10.

1. Hercules under the name of Iovan was known to the classical antiquity also, but the Greek and Latin authors preferred to use a simple translated form, instead of a popular traditional one. According to the Pelasgian-Greek theogony, Hercules was the son of Jove. So Homer (Iliad, XIV. 250) and Hesiod (Theog. v. 316) calls him simply “the son of Jove”, without adding the particular name of ‘Hrakles, although had had, according to legends, an infinite number of sons.

Virgil also calls him simply Iovis proles (Aen. VIII. 301). An old inscription in Abruzzo is dedicated to Herclo Iovio, another one in Rome to Herculi Iovio (Preller-Jordan, R. M. I. 1881, p. 187).

The new web adress is at: pelasgians.bigpondhosting.com...

Best wishess to you.

Dan

Edit. This is just to corect the web addres for the link above.

[edit on 27-7-2007 by Geticus]

Welcome on board xcmorex and merka.

Sorry for my late response xcmorex. I was very busy lately.
I'm not an expert either, but we all here have a pasion for ancient history.

Check this link for a reach surse of informations about the subject:

pelasgians.bigpoundhosting.com

About your question

reply to post by Geticus


The Pillars of Hercules could be found in many temples which were dedicated to him....

Plato says in Critias,

Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles
and all who dwelt within them

Does this mean that the Pillars were some kind of headland? A natural barrier between one people and another?

He then goes on to say,

...the combatants on he other side were commanded by the kings of Atlantis, which, as was saying, was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia...

Could an island that big existed in the Mediterranean?
Not a chance!
The only place an island that size could exist is outside of the Mediterranean.
The confusion over river and ocean is not that hard to explain.The ancient belief was that,beyond the lands of the then known world,was a great river and it encircled all the land.They called it the ocean.
Knowing that the Greeks knew land existed to the east and that land existed to the north,and knowing that a huge island couldn't have existed in the Med Sea,where are the Pillars of Hercules?
At the Rock of Gibralter?

5. Pindar, again seid that the Columns of Hercules where in the country of Hyperboreans, in the Istrian country, the extreme limit of navigation.

The Hyperboreans were a mythical people to the Greeks.Also,the land of Thrace was known to the Athenians as its lie north east and their colonies stretched into the Black Sea part of which is bordered by Thrace.

10. According to Pliny, upstrim from the island Gadira navigation was not possible. There the stone walls were so close that one single tree could hinder with it's branches the passing of vessels.

The only Gadiera i know of lies in southwestern Spain,its known today as Cadiz,its not far from Gibralter.

[edit on 29-10-2007 by jakyll]

I know all the references about the Pillars of Hercules which existed from before Plato and post also. And I have copies of the manuscrits and codices of the original authors, from the times before to Solon, and the conlusion is that no exist none doubt of which the Pillars of Hercules of the Atlantis narration from Plato's Timaeus and Critias are the same Gibraltar Strait.

No is important if have existed (or no) other Pillars of Hercules, before the Homer's times, in other sites from Mediterranean or Sea Black, the only really important is which in the Solon's times, the Greek located the Pillars of Hercules en Gibraltar. The proofs? are several...

Palaeographical proofs:

1. Hecatheus, in the Solon's times (very little after death of Solon) located to Pillars of Hercules in Iberia, in his description about the regions and lands of the Iberia, were he located Tartessus and others cities as Mastia, together to Pillars of Hercules.

2. The Timaeus and Critias description located to Pillars of Hercules in the Atlantic Pelagus (Atlantikous Pelagous).

3. Poseidon divided the Atlantis Nêsos (island/peninsula/delta/insular-land/alluvial-land/fluvial-land, etc.) in ten regions or provinces and one of the ten regions was called Gadeira and was very near to Pillars of Hercules.

Archaeological proofs:

1. The Greek presence in Iberia is well know from the Mycenaeans times, and after, from the centuries VIII-VII because the quantity of the archaic Greek potters and other archaeological evidences is very big in several ancient cities as Gadeira (Gades) and Onuba (Huelva).

2. Around the ends of the century VII and beginings of the century VI (almost 70 years before the visit of Solon to Sais), the Greeks founded in Iberia the colony Emporiôn (Ampurias, Gerona).


Conclusion: If was true which the Greeks are moving the Pillars of Hercules towards the Western regions, according they discovered news regions, then, is evident which the Greeks, from before the Solon's times, have already moved the Pillars of Hercules towards Iberia.

The myth of the Pillars of Hercules, ocurred in the ends of the Mycenaens times, is pre-Homer, and in these times, the ancient Greeks had frequent contacts with Iberia, as have appeared sufficient archaeological evidences of origin Mycenaean in several places Iberia, and interestingly, most of the evidences have been found in regions that are after the Gibraltar Strait, as Seville, Cordoba , Extremadura and Portugal.

The Egyptian priests, referring to the place where the Pillars of Hercules (besides them in the mouth of the Atlantic pelagus) told Solon: 'you named as the Pillars of Hercules', and the facts, ie palaeographical proofs , and the archaeological proofs show that these Pillars of Hercules that the Greeks of Solon's times knew, they could only be the Pillars of Hercules between Iberia and Maourousia (Morroco), ie, the current Gibraltar Strait because, in addition to being located at Atlantic Pelagus, and be very near a region of the Atlantis Nêsos, which was called Gadeira (Cadiz), the Greeks of Solon's times, possessed colonies in Iberia, at least from some 70 years earlier, and their businesses extended until the parties or regions Iberia after being close, as evidenced by the archeology.

Therefore it does not matter at all whether it may have existed other Pillars of Hercules, before the Hesiodus or Homer's times, or even if there were other Pillars of Hercules in times after Plato, the only thing that really is important for proper identification Atlantis is the geographic location of the Pillars of Hercules in Solon's times, and the facts show that this location was the same that the classical tradition has left until today, through the vast majority of references, ie the Gibraltar Strait...

reply to post by Georgeos Diaz-Montexano


... It is indisputable historical fact, in which the only maritime strait, across the globe, from antiquity (from before the Solon's times), or has gathered together the three names from the topominmy who used Solon, Plato or to locate Atlantis, is the current Gibraltar Strait.

There is (or has existed) elsewhere on the planet who has had a maritime strait called Pillars of Hercules, in an Atlantic pelagus and also very near a Nêsos a region called Gadeira. These three names together: Pillars of Hercules, Atlantic pelagus, and Gadeira, have only existed since antiquity, in the same place where they have always been, ie within the current Gibraltar Strait, the Gulf Atlantic (or Gulf of Cadiz ), and the province of Cadiz, in the Iberia Nêsos.

Any other theory that does not respect the three elements of the ancient toponimy (which are essential for proper localization and identification of the Atlantis nêsos), has no right to even be regarded as a mere hypothesis.

In my Official Website ( www.Antiquos.com... ) there are hundreds of articles in English, French, Italian and Spanish in particular, who are the majority, about the Plato's Atlantis. And other website is written only in English, have access to a fairly comprehensive summary of the majority of my discoveries and assumptions about my theory about the Plato's Atlantis: www.GeorgeosDiazMontexano.com...

What are you talking about montezuma? You talk like you were there. There is alot more about them being other places than the narrow perspective you offer.

All options are open. That is a fact.

I just started reading the story last night. At least the "Harward" translation. There seems to be quite a bit of difference between the different translations. I don't think the location of the pillars will ever be known for sure. The only way for someone to take this story as real history would to believe that a real "god of the sea" named posideon had sex with a woman and that is how the Island was formed.

Another thing is, the story seems to contradict itself in many ways.

Just a couple here.

Some places it is described as an "Island" that does not measure all that large by "stadias" and the word "continent" is used. Then in other places it is described as larger than Lybia and Asia. I realize that Lybia was probably not much bigger than todays Lybia and Asia was probably talking about the land known as Turkey today. But still that is a big body of land, certainly deserving the title continent. Why would it be called an Island and not a continent by Plato?

My last point is that Athens is the leading city state fighting against it. But according to archiology and ancient Greek writings Athens didn't even exist before 3000 BC. So how could Athens be leading the fight against Atlantis 6000 years before it became city by that name?

I believe it is a story based on a people called the Keptu by Egyptians they lived on the Islands of Crete and Thera among others, and Plato or Solon greatly exagurated the story. The Greeks were bad about twisting someone elses historical facts. The Septuigent is a prime example.

Sorry about any misspelling. In a hurry.

Velicovski, I think made a pretty good case that the 'flood" was a world wide event that occurred 10.500 BC.
I have never seen anyone refute his evidence.

Which puts Plato's Atlantis right when he said it should be.
This puts the half men half gods like Hercules where the anti diluvian Sumerian king list puts them..prior to Velicovski's date for the flood.

Which puts the pillars of Hercules there too.
If areas in the Andes could be raised 2200 feet in that cataclysm
a lot of geological changes may have occurred, as indicated for instance by maps that show Antarctica with no ice.

The pillars may not be where we are looking for them now and Atlantis may turn out to be in an equally odd location.
As witnessed by all the sunken and raised civilizations we have found.

thanks for the link OP

I got'em right here, they hang off both sides down to my waist.

Seriously I belive if we could discover their true name it would help in the search. Were they called,"The Pillars of Hercules" or"The Columns of Hercules"? Pillars could mean a much more natural formation.
Columns would lean towards man made.