Racist Comments by Ray Nagin?

No that is not what i am saying you know the saying you do not have to tear down someone to feel good. I can celebrate my africanism without talking bad about any group. The problem comes in say if i celebrate the riots in LA. It would offend someone. you can celebrate the south (For i do not know why)if you want please leave symbols of oppresion out of them. Can we agree to that?
Just like you might have a bad taste in your mouth about some fomer coworkers. Believe me i see many many celebrations of different cultures and participate when i can. (that is why i like the city.)Life would be crappy if my culture was the only one. There are people who feel that their culture is the best and tell others do not come in here talking with an accent or not praying to my god or wanting to add unchristian holidays in the school system.

I grew up in the south my grandfather graduated from boston college in the 1940's the stories he told me. My great grandfather was a mason the stories he told me also. Misery is not the goal the goal is information so that it never happens again at that scale.

[edit on 12/09-2005 by BlackThought]

Slavery? I'll just throw some useless factoids into the mix... Do you know where the term slavery comes from? It comes from the word slav... Germans once rounded up Slovakians to use in the slave trade. The Welsh used to be slaves to northern England. Way, way back the jews were slaves to the Egyptians...

BlackThought... I'm sorry but your location Amerikkka is probably what is causing you a lot of troubles in this thread. As a proud American, a non-racist American might I add, that seems a broad statement to be making. I do, personally, take offense to it. I'm sure you have reasons for feeling the way you do, but calling your location Amerikkka makes it sound like you live in slavery to this day. That America is full of lynching clan members hell bent on making black people miserable. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive... I'm not denying that there are still ignorant rednecks to this day. But hey are not the majority of Americans.

Let me ask a question...

If a person doesn't know they are being racist... Are they?

[edit on 26-1-2006 by LostSailor]

Well, lets work through an example where neither one of us is likely to be a member of the insulted group.

Say, the name and logo of the Washington Redskins.

Do most redskins fans mean for their team's logo and name to be taken as an insult by anyone? No. almost certainly not.

But many Native Americans are insulted by a term that is racist on its face, and is a charicature of a whole slew of different Amerindian civilizations.

Why have the Redskins, as well as the Atlanta Braves, been so slow to remove THOSE symbols of racism, which various native groups have definitely said are insulting???

Is it O.K. if the symbol users don't intend to insult anyone, if they are not thinking about the oppression of others, but are instead inspired by bravery, courage in the face of battle, and a dogged insistence upon their own cause, even in the face of superior firepower?

In all honesty, the civil war enactors I know crave that experience, and not the ownership of other human beings. They will be quick to tell you that only a tiny minority of the richest whites in the Antebellum South actually owned other human beings.

I actually heard an incredible speech at an enactment dinner. I wish I owned a transcript. The speaker (anglo) was explaining that most southerners in 1861 supported the Civil War in terms of their belief that they had the right to withdraw from the Union; for the majority, it wasn't about slavery, but freedom.

The speaker went on to talk about Bull Run and Fredricksburg, about how the South was beating the North in spite of the Union's industrial might. That the Southern tradition of military service and independence kept the Confederacy alive.

He went on to argue that while the war was about States' Rights, the South was winning, because both sides felt the South had the "moral high ground." That as long as Meade and Burnside and Lincoln saw the war as the imosition of the Union upon unwilling citizens, they were losing the war. It was only when Lincoln, as a man, came to see the conflict as a War Against Slavery, that the North began to win battles on the ground.

This speaker said that all the leaders of the South realized that they had lost. Not lost on the battlefield yet, but lost in the struggle for the hearts of their own people; that when southerners came to see the inherent injustice of slavery, THAT was the beginning of the end for the South. He said that Gettysburg was a turning point, not just in terms of strategy, but because the North began trusting black soldiers to fight for their own freedom. He read letters from white southerners to their wives, telling of the bravery and desperation with which black soldiers fought---how they never surrendered, because they would rather die that lose the newfound liberty they gained . . . .

Now, I believe that is a moment in history worth celebrating. It is important because it IS painful, and remains a festering wound in the American psyche. to 'edit out' the unseemly parts would be to sanitize and "whitewash" the mistakes our ancestors made.

One of the most disgusting examles of propaganda I ever saw was at Epcot Center in Disneyworld. They had this display on scandanavia, that talked about what brave explorers the vikings were. What hearty seamen they were. Anybody who reads knows that they were the most bloodthirsty pirates and rapists that Western Europe ever faced. In many ways, their savagery escalated the building of castles, the use of armor and mounted knights, etc. But Walt Disney had "edited" the bloody truth out, and pretended that thousands never died at the hands of the Vikings. What's next, a "naziland" tribute????

I say, better to let Redskins fans and Civil War Enactors keep their emblems. Let the Atlanta braves do the tomahawk chop. If it fosters some debate among and between groups, great. But to say "you cannot do that because it offends me" is sets up a culture of outrage, where people can only get their way by being offended all the time.

I don't own a confederate flag. It's uncouth, and I don't want to be mis-identified with a bunch of illiterate toothless trash that can't even spell a monosyllabic word such as "clan."

I don't go civil war enactments. Once you've been in an actual firefight, it sort of takes the thrill out of such things.

I don't root for the Redskins, either. But I don't want to see them outlawed.

.

Ok let’s look at the redskins or charactures of cultural items. Once again in need to see at least an attempt of being level headed. You have Indians and an Irish man in play dealing with mascots.

Where’s the hillbilly mascot? Not even a new yorker type symbol is seen.Then the charactue become more styled in a mature manner like the Spartans. Can we celebrate bravery without hurting someone else? I lived by Stones River. My friends and I played in Franklin where the battlegrounds were I understand about the bravery and the thousands killed. They made sure to teach us that in school.

Now, I believe that is a moment in history worth celebrating. It is important because it IS painful, and remains a festering wound in the American psyche. to 'edit out' the unseemly parts would be to sanitize and "whitewash" the mistakes our ancestors made.

One of the most disgusting examples of propaganda I ever saw was at Epcot Center in Disneyworld. They had this display on scandanavia, that talked about what brave explorers the vikings were. What hearty seamen they were. Anybody who reads knows that they were the most bloodthirsty pirates and rapists that Western Europe ever faced. In many ways, their savagery escalated the building of castles, the use of armor and mounted knights, etc. But Walt Disney had "edited" the bloody truth out, and pretended that thousands never died at the hands of the Vikings. What's next, a "naziland" tribute????

I agree with you whole heartily that everything should be exposed. That is the main reason we should be sensitive of others history in America.

I say, better to let Redskins fans and Civil War Enactors keep their emblems. Let the Atlanta braves do the tomahawk chop. If it fosters some debate among and between groups, great. But to say "you cannot do that because it offends me" is sets up a culture of outrage, where people can only get their way by being offended all the time.

I hear ya in that... my question is what about symbols of this nation? What about burning the flag or draping the flag upside down? Some truly believe that this country has gone astray on their values. As a vet you should know the flag should not even get dirty let alone burned. Do they have a right to either burn or legislate law to make it a crime. By your reasoning the symbol is something for your own identity and if someone looks at that symbol as something else it’s their problem not yours because it is not what you think about.

Because of the socialization of the south I had to learn when and when not to open my mouth. Because I did not want to offend or jeopardize my future by even pointing out the truth. That is what we should do in dealing with other cultures. I still think we can lead fruitful lives without having the basic structure of a person's identity mocked.

Here is the pinch If you look at blue collar that is funny not if you take the same thing make all of the black talking about the same subject I think it starts becoming something else. The same thing backwards the problems within the black community should be talked about by everyone but please have an idea about what you are talking about and listen to what they need to fix the problem if you want to help.

Right now I was taught in school mainly about whites in the history of America. I had to learn outside of class that we played a major part as well. Not only us but also the Irish, Germans, Asians and many others have major historical ties here. I just wish they would teach those as well.

We all have sore spots sometime they are unavoidable but that should not stop us from trying. That might be considered lazy and dare I say not respectable.


[edit on 12/09-2005 by BlackThought]

[edit on 12/09-2005 by BlackThought]

Originally posted by BlackThought
how to you feel about the flag being burned or bush compaired to hitler? the sword has two sides be back with you soon.

Are you trying for the Godwin Award?

I think those are activities intended to cause someone else to feel bad.

I support people's right to burn the flag, as long at it is a piece of property they own. If you paid for the fabric, then it is yours, and the right to own a piece of property normally includes the right to dispose of it as you choose. It should be illegal to burn someone else's flag or any other property you don't own.

Same with comparing Bush, or any celebrity, with Hitler. Free speech is a cherished right in the US. I think it's fairly assinine, since I really don't believe any US president, including the present one, has revelled in the thought of genocide, and planned to carry it out systematically. It's sort of like me calling my neighbor "Satan" because he doesn't put up Christmas lights. (in actual fact, I'm the one who doesn't put up lights.)

*****

As far as the flag thing goes, I'll go one further. A couple of years ago, it became fashionable to wear shorts made out of the united state, British, or state flag.

I've never done such a thing, or permitted my children to do so. And not because its "Old Glory" either. I wouldn't let them wear the flag of Equador across their bottoms. Nor the flag of North Korea, nor the UN flag nor the flag of the Netherlands Antilles. I try to show respect for other people's culture and history. I don't wave the stars-and-bars, I don't burn flags, and I don't wear them on my bottom, either. It's just tasteless. The mark of a man without honor.

It's like back in the 1979 Iran hostage crisis. Some US radio stations hosted Iranian flag burnings. I thought that was despicable. If you want to fight an enemy, fine. But treat him with the basic respect you'd show any human. Degrading your enemy is the fundamental act of a coward and barbarian.

That's my impression of flag burners in other countries, too. It doesn't escape me that most of the flag burning is done by either Anarchists here or Muslim fundamentalists in Asia. Both groups would like to see all persons different from themselves wiped off the earth. In both cases, they are probably a lot closer to Hitler than Bush is.

.

Ok let’s look at the redskins or charactures of cultural items. Once again in need to see at least an attempt of being level headed. You have Indians and an Irish man in play dealing with mascots.

Where’s the hillbilly mascot? Not even a new yorker type symbol is seen.Then the charactue become more styled in a mature manner like the Spartans. Can we celebrate bravery without hurting someone else? I lived by Stones River. My friends and I played in Franklin where the battlegrounds were I understand about the bravery and the thousands killed. They made sure to teach us that in school.

Now, I believe that is a moment in history worth celebrating. It is important because it IS painful, and remains a festering wound in the American psyche. to 'edit out' the unseemly parts would be to sanitize and "whitewash" the mistakes our ancestors made.

One of the most disgusting examples of propaganda I ever saw was at Epcot Center in Disneyworld. They had this display on scandanavia, that talked about what brave explorers the vikings were. What hearty seamen they were. Anybody who reads knows that they were the most bloodthirsty pirates and rapists that Western Europe ever faced. In many ways, their savagery escalated the building of castles, the use of armor and mounted knights, etc. But Walt Disney had "edited" the bloody truth out, and pretended that thousands never died at the hands of the Vikings. What's next, a "naziland" tribute????

I agree with you whole heartily that everything should be exposed. That is the main reason we should be sensitive of others history in America.

I say, better to let Redskins fans and Civil War Enactors keep their emblems. Let the Atlanta braves do the tomahawk chop. If it fosters some debate among and between groups, great. But to say "you cannot do that because it offends me" is sets up a culture of outrage, where people can only get their way by being offended all the time.
I hear ya in that... my question is what about symbols of this nation? What about burning the flag or draping the flag upside down? Some truly believe that this country has gone astray on their values. As a vet you should know the flag should not even get dirty let alone burned. Do they have a right to either burn or legislate law to make it a crime. By your reasoning the symbol is something for your own identity and if someone looks at that symbol as something else it’s their problem not yours because it is not what you think about.

Because of the socialization of the south I had to learn when and when not to open my mouth. Because I did not want to offend or jeopardize my future by even pointing out the truth. That is what we should do in dealing with other cultures. I still think we can lead fruitful lives without having the basic structure of a person's identity mocked.

Here is the pinch If you look at blue collar that is funny not if you take the same thing make all of the black talking about the same subject I think it starts becoming something else. The same thing backwards the problems within the black community should be talked about by everyone but please have an idea about what you are talking about and listen to what they need to fix the problem if you want to help.

Right now I was taught in school mainly about whites in the history of America. I had to learn outside of class that we played a major part as well. Not only us but also the Irish, Germans, Asians and many others have major historical ties here. I just wish they would teach those as well.

We all have sore spots sometime they are unavoidable but that should not stop us from trying. That might be considered lazy and dare I say not respectable.