What we westener's want

Originally posted by HumanBean


I would like to believe this, but I see little in the way of rational argument when the words War and Iraq are in the same sentence. Most people just start raving about the poor Iraqis and how we are so evil. Who's side are most people on?

This Westerner is on the side that isn't lying about the reasons we have troops in other countries. I believe you are right that OIL is the reason "we" have our fingers into someone else's pie... that is OIL/MONEY. This Westerner doesn't agree with the methods used of late to get what "we" want. And if lies lead to murder because of greed... Yep, pretty sure...(sniffs) Yep, that's evil all right.

Oh yes it does, if I'm going to risk death and the complete destruction of my way of life because of this merchant then right and wrong go right out the window. And I'm not talking about the legality or rightness of this, just that this is what happens. People get angry when you take away or threaten what they need, that's a fact

really? I mean seriously. really REALLY? So all ethics and morals go out the window when the chips are down? I am seriously losing hope for humans (you included 'beans'), if when things get tough the answer is whack the person who has the things that we think we need, instead of rising above and helping each other out in a way that befits our higher state of conciousness and intellect that humans have within! If we don't rise above we are no more than animals. This "I have the bigger gun, and if you better do like I say" nonsense is why the majority of the nations on this planet (we were all meant to share BTW) dislike the US/Israel/UK. "We" throw our weight around too dang much, and step on people's toes and expect an apology for them having their danged feet where we were walking. It's ludicrous!

Yes, they are the same. Object all you like, Oil is the single most valuable commodity on the market today and if it were taken away then you would see suffering on an untold scale.

And because there isn't a free market, that is why the US is in the Middle East

I am sorry but these statements are simply incorrect. IF oil was removed from the earth tommorow...yes there would be some tumultuous times as a paradigm shift in the economic level would undoubtedly occur. But ultimately mankind would get over it and move on, to something bigger and better (and knowing my history the way I do probably more self-destructive long term!). As far as the free market statement if you look at all of the checks and balances: it's as free as it's gonna get. As long as the rich get richer and keep the poor under their thumb this free market system is what you get.

No, I am defending our way of life. As corrupt and unfair as it may be, that is the way it is

What if you, HumanBean tried to look at things other than in a 'us v. them' type of mentality. Could you see then how shortsighted this type of thinking really is? Whether we realize it or not every piece of life from microscopic bacteria to penguins in the Antarctic to you and me and everything else in between, live in a symbiotic ecostructure that is steadily spiraling out of control. It is mostly caused by narrow thinking I believe. Thinking only of ones self or race or country or ???

I think you should watch a few apocalyptic type films or look at what happened in New Orleans when society collapses. As unfurtunate as the whole Iraqi situation is, the US government is acting pre-emptively to protect the US people (and by exstension the world) from this sort of scenario.

What makes you so absolute about your statements here? Personally, I think that if our govt. were busy tending to things such as what happened in New Orleans promptly (oh wait. they were black and poor. nevermind.) rather than sticking our nose where it didn't belong (i.e. the Mid East) we wouldn't be needing "protection" would we?

The US government is acting in the US people's (and their own) best interest inspite of the fact that most people have no idea what their best interest is

Well you got part of it right. The US gov't is acting on their best interests: OIL/MONEY! And as far as your "facts" go if the facts were actually presented to the people we could actually decide for ourselves then couldn't we? I recognize that " a person is smart... people are stupid" is all to prevelant in our modern world. Without the actual facts (without spin from either side) it is difficult to make an unbiased decision, especially one as important as waging war on another sovreign nation. As for me I'll decide what is in my best interests, thanks. And please don't speak for the rest of us Westerners any longer. We look bad enough to the rest of the world as it sits now!

BTW, 'beans, people will take you more seriously if you use that thing called spell checker.

Boy, you don't get it do you. You LIVE in this western world so if you don't like it then shut up, sell your car, move to Iraq and show everyone what you stand up for. Well, I'm waiting...

Oh no you cant can you? What that means is that for all your whinging you implicitly condone killing in your name because you use the very products that requires this murder and yet try to look righteous by condeming it. Me, personally I would rather see that everyone lives in peace.

Deal with it like every other person that comes into this thread

We look bad enough to the rest of the world as it sits now!

Yeah, that's right so stop trying to stick up for people who would probably love to see you dead and get your priorities straight

And please don't speak for the rest of us Westerners any longer. We look bad enough to the rest of the world as it sits now!

You mean like the "Iraqi" that spoke in the thread that this one is based on is speaking for all Iraqis?

really? I mean seriously. really REALLY? So all ethics and morals go out the window when the chips are down? I am seriously losing hope for humans (you included 'beans'), if when things get tough the answer is whack the person who has the things that we think we need, instead of rising above and helping each other out in a way that befits our higher state of conciousness and intellect that humans have within! If we don't rise above we are no more than animals. This "I have the bigger gun, and if you better do like I say" nonsense is why the majority of the nations on this planet (we were all meant to share BTW) dislike the US/Israel/UK. "We" throw our weight around too dang much, and step on people's toes and expect an apology for them having their danged feet where we were walking. It's ludicrous!

What, do I need to spell it out for you. Yes, ethics and morals do go out the window when the chip goes down. Oh no, quick, better insult me for pointing out the nature of reality. I'm sure you wouldn't consider killing another person to save your own life because I'm sure you are different to everyone else. Far, far better

BTW, 'beans, people will take you more seriously if you use that thing called spell checker

Ok, thanks "unmarked". From now on I'll copy all my text into a spell checker just to keep up with the high quality of spelling I see in all the other posts

Admin Edit to remove profanity

[edit on 11-1-2006 by SimonGray]

Mod Note: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 11/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]

what westerners want?

like an old saying around here goes:
its easy to crap with your butt full.

the west has too much, thats why its degenerating.
and you still want moreeeeeee
moreeee
moree

Originally posted by HumanBean
This letter is written in reply to the thread: What we Iraqis Want

What we westerner's want is for the Iraqi people to grow up and stop acting like a bunch of pyscopathic looney-tunes. You have a real opportunity to create a new and better country and instead you ALLOW morons like the Al-zahari or whatever his stupid name is to run free and war on his own people for some distorted (and false) view of Islam. Yes you've had it rough and STILL have it rough but you have never been in a better position to pick your future path. When was the last time you were able to choose your government. You may say that the US elections are corrupt but at least you have an opportunity to fix that corruption (if it even exists) and that is a 1000 times better than having a dictator

We want the middle east in general, to grow up and stop acting like a bunch of pyscopathic looney tunes. Bin Laden says we are trying to take oil from the Middle East, that we hate Islam in general. The truth is, most people couldn't care less if Islam exists or not, they just want to go to the football and live their lives in peace. Yes, we come over and bomb your people, what do you expect when you try and screw us over with high oil prices and constantly act like little children fighting over candy as your war amongst your self over and over again? Oil IS AS IMPORTANT AS WATER so tell me how you would feel if someone was threatening your supply of water?

Bah, a fat lot of good this letter will do anyway

you hit it on the nail dont forget we westerners also want youse iraqis to stop playing with fire (nuclear reactors, nuclear fuel and such) dont you iraqis remember what happened in chernoble? i can picture it in the paper already... hundreds of iraqis dead after explosion at nuclear plant. get your electricity from power plants not reactors.

This is less about the War on Terror and more of a rant about westerners.
Moving to PTS slug fest.

Originally posted by HumanBean
Boy, you don't get it do you. You LIVE in this western world so if you don't like it then shut up, sell your car, move to Iraq and show everyone what you stand up for. Well, I'm waiting...

I live in this Western world where men and women fought and died to protect this country that I love very much, and the just principles that were once held in high regard here in the USA. These people fought and died for my freedom to be critical of my government if I see something that looks, acts, or sounds like something that will hurt my Lady Liberty in the future or put her in a bad light to the rest of the world. To insinuate that I should move to Iraq because I don't buy what our government is trying to shell out to us, or that I am unpatriotic because I don't think this war in Iraq is justifiable, is reprehensible.

you'll be waiting a long while.
and BTW... I'll never shut up. Or quit thinking for myself for that matter.

Oh no you cant can you? What that means is that for all your whinging you implicitly condone killing in your name because you use the very products that requires this murder and yet try to look righteous by condeming it. Me, personally I would rather see that everyone lives in peace.

I believe the word you are attempting to use here is "whining", and so far I've only seen it coming from you. As for your attempt at trying to say I condone killing in my name because I drive a car... asinine and juvenile.

Yeah, that's right so stop trying to stick up for people who would probably love to see you dead and get your priorities straight

The only person I am sticking up for is myself. My priorities are quite straight and my loyalties self-evident. I love my country, but question my government; especially when the government expects the sheeple to fall in line and barf out the same old propaganda of "patriotism" when someone questions whether or not what is being done is on the level. Be brave enough to think for yourself, or at the very least ask someone that is ed-u-ma-cated to explain (in crayon if necessary) in a non-biased manner how the US has for quite some time now been attempting to get a serious foothold in the MidEast. For what? Money. Bottom line. I think it is wrong for our soldiers whom I fully support (I have a nephew in Iraq right now.) to be put in harms way over money. That is EVIL. Do you think that our gov't would give a tinkers dam about much of the events in the MidEast if there was not a bajillion (< this is NOT actually a real number 'beans) dollars to be made by companies that get insider contracts and give these politicians more money and power??? Come on...think.

What, do I need to spell it out for you. Yes, ethics and morals do go out the window when the chip goes down.

I feel sorry for you and the people that surround you should that time come (which it will).

Oh no, quick, better insult me for pointing out the nature of reality.

Your reality? It must be, because I know that the people who are in my life would lend a hand, and help a stranger in need rather than turn on each other like rabid animals. It's called community and it's essential.

As for insulting you... you seem to be doing a pretty good job of it yourself with the things you have posted here. I don't think I need to do much else except let your next post do the damage.

I'm sure you wouldn't consider killing another person to save your own life because I'm sure you are different to everyone else. Far, far better

IF you came into my home (or my COUNTRY (there is a deeper meaning to this 'beans... ponder it for awhile)) and were throwing your weight around, I would first kindly ask you to leave in a polite manner. If the warning was not heeded, I (along with most every other human being, except maybe the Dalai Lama; Jesus if HE were here today) would KICK YOUR CAN. Do you see how this references how we are meddling in someone else's house. Our own house needs to be straightened before we go around making noise about the mess in the neighbors yard. What this West'nr would like to see is more accountability from our representatives, less corruption, and a lot more disclosure which would eliminate a lot of this foolishness. I would also like to see the US gravitate away from the fossil fuels to something replenishable, and less harmful. Why? Our planet is not ours. It is loaned to us by our children's children.

I am sorry to see you lost your cool and got smacked down by a mod AND by Mr. Gray himself. Tsk. Tsk. I recommend Decaf, 'beans. Get it? Decaf?!? 'Beans?!?

I'm deeply wounded unmarked, now I will never know peace because you don't like me and I have a couple of warns.

But that's ok, you keep on ranting about the poor Iraqis and I'll keep on ranting about the opposite and that way we'll both be happy

don't take it personal. this is supposed to be a forum of healthy debate. I never said I didn't like you. I don't know you. I particularly don't/can't/won't take your side in this nonsense.

I am a person who takes in all of the info I can get my mitts on to and try to think subjectively, rather than a "us v. them" because I think it is naive to have that mentality. If you do some homework about this matter, there has been a steady decline of ethics and moral judgements by our government for many years now with both parties. Why? Money corrupts.

I simply like to call a spade a spade. No BS. If I see something that is unethical, or otherwise just plain old evil I will speak my mind about it. I am loyal to no political party, or agenda other than one that is about disclosure of truths, real justice, and stears away from the imperialistic agenda this regime and others have had for years and years and years. It's wrong, and as an American I have the right to call BS on what has been passed off as truth, like the idea such as the one you have proposed. If you look at the facts you will see it's nonsense! I realize I have probably pet yer fur the wrong direction for too long now, and you wouldn't listen to me regardless of the content of my post. My intention was not to get into a slug fest with you, although I am not afraid of any type of conflict, if it is justified (I have educated myself and been trained for combat: verbal and otherwise). As far as the conflicts the US is in I don't see the justification. Greed and imperialism is no excuse for our boys dying in foreign lands. I wish I could make you see this.

Peace be with you HumanBean