Uhuru - The murder of all white Africans

In order to comply with the new, more strict rules of using external material in a post, I had to recreate the thread. Thanks TC for "showing me the errors of my ways".

In short
There is an "disturbing" rumour doing its rounds in South Africa, that the day that ex-president Nelson Mandela dies, the black people of South Africa will unite and "clean" South Africa of white people by murdering them all.

Introduction:
I would like to share something that I call an urban legend with ATS members, and hear some opinions. I’ve been trying my best to stop the spreading of this rumour, circulating via email, but fear is stronger than reason.


According to the conspiracy Nelson Mandela is all that stands in the way of all Sout African white people being murdered.

A bit of background:
I’m sure everyone is aware of South Africa’s political background, and more specific Apartheid. For years, up until the early 90’s black people (and other people of color) had no rights in the country. I’m myself white, but grew up in the changing South Africa (I was 12 when the black ANC government took over) so I’m used to equal rights to all and being “colorblind”. But the older generation (I’d say people 50 years and older) are still stuck with the notion that white people are better than black people, with cans full of worms ideas about people of color.

To understand the reason for the black vs. white hate, we need to go back over three hundred years when white Europeans first arrived in South Africa. A Dutch man, Jan van Riebeeck set up the first trading post in 1652 (for the Dutch East Indian Company) in the western Cape, and it was only years later before the Europeans started exploring inland. And since the first day they landed in Southern Africa the Europeans were met by fierce black warriors. And it has been black against white ever since. Blacks fighting for the land that was right-fully theirs, and whites to expand the Dutch colonies (and later the British wanted a piece of this pie). A new Dutch culture was formed, known as the “Afrikaner Volk”, also known as the Voortrekkers. These were the people who fought for the country to be theirs. They fought the Zulu warriors, Xhosa warriors and later the soldiers fighting for the British crown. In the end, they finally won a long battle, to get independence from Britain in 1961.

The Afrikaners (known as “Boere” today) were deep religious people, caring for their own kind, willing to die for what they believed in. They had their own new language, their own culture and finally their own country. They built up South Africa to the country the world came to know in the late 1980’s. Then the country they built was taken from them and given back to the black people they originally took it from, by FW de Klerk (the last white president). Now, more than 15 years after the first changes, the Afrikaner culture is nearly non-existent. They accepted their fellow South African, and white and black lives happily, side by side.

Or so it would seem. Many blacks hate white people with pure passion. And there’s a handful of white people (still clinging to the old Afrikaner culture) that want South Africa back in the hands of white people. They fought for it for nearly 400 years after all…

One of these extremist white groups call themselves “Dogter van Sion” – translated “Daughter of Sion”. They believe themselves to be directly related to the original Israeli Jews, i.e. they see themselves as “the chosen nation of God”. They have some ridiculous “proof” tracing their bloodlines from South Africa back to Europe and then back to Israel. And South Africa is their “promised land”. And according to them, God will deliver the country back to them. But only after a serious struggle.

You can visit their site at www.siener.co.za although I’m afraid most of it is in Afrikaans (and some Dutch) although there are some English articles, which should give you an idea about the way they think. (Please feel free to ask me if there is something specific you’d like translated…)

The Conspiracy
Ok, so this brings me to the conspiracy theory. They call it Uhuru – A Xhosa word that roughly translates into “Night of the Long Knives” according to them. According to me it comes from the Swahili word for “Freedom”. These are some extractions from the email (which can also be found on their site) that were translated…

*** *** ***

Uhuru (also known as Operation Vula/Operation White Clean-up/Operation Iron Eagle/Red October campaign) is something that touches every Afrikaner

Afrikaner is someone that is white, speaks Afrikaans and of Dutch descent

and is very real. As soon as Nelson Mandela dies, 70,000 blacks will stream to Johannesburg to kill all whites, men, women and children before foot with knives and guns, while they

the white people

are sleeping. They will then go from Johannesburg to Pretoria to continue the killing spree. Similar attacks will be collaborated all over the country.

In 1990 Nelson Mandela visited Russia. The Kremlin gave him a fully worked out plan, which would only be set into motion when he was no longer there.

I could not find any records that Nelson Mandela visited Russia in 1990. Mandela was released from prison in February 1990, and went abroad for the first time (after his release) in July 1990 when he visited the US.

The Plan is known by different names in different provinces - OPERATION WHITE CLEAN-UP, OPERATION UHURU, NIGHT OF THE LONG KNIVES, OPERATION IRON EAGLE, and a couple of others. The Plan centred around foreign blacks from Africa, who De Klerk had thrown open the portals to the New South Africa to, who must settle in out towns and villages.

There are many illegal immigrants from many neighbouring countries. FW de Klerk – the previous president that released Nelson Mandela - has nothing to with this for obvious reasons.

This would enable them to orchestrate Operation White Clean-up countrywide, with hardly any resistance. They just had to wait for the sign. And what was the sign? By 1997 almost every black in the country knew that the death of their beloved Madiba

An honorary title adopted by elders of Mandela's clan. The title has come to be synonymous with Nelson Mandela

would be the trigger.

On their Siener-tour

Siener is the “theme” of the Daughter of Sion group. It has its origin from a famous Afrikaner prophet called Siener van Rensburg that predicted the rise and fall and rise of whites in South Africa. Siener translates to “Prophet”.

through the land in 2001, the writers Adriaan Snyman and Chris Botha

These are the main players in the Daughter of Sion group. They act as religious leaders or preachers to spread their message through the word of God

, came upon and could confirm at least six places from where the blacks would stage their night-attack on Johannesburg on the day of Mandela's funeral. Eminent scholars from the universities already have knowledge of these plans.

No names, or sources are ever named.

Dozens of country villages are also already targeted, and the attack (with the codename Operation Iron Eagle) will be under the control of the Army. It seems that many extremist blacks are already getting impatient because Mandela won't lay his head down, because a while ago a faction in Johannesburg were on the brink of launching an attack against the whites, and had to be stopped in a rush.

No record of this event.

The only way to stop them was to call in the help of the taxi-drivers -- these then painted the following message on the backs of their taxi's WAIT! NOT YET UHURU! It is estimated that minibus taxis could transport 70,000 armed blacks from the townships to mid-town Johannesburg within an hour.

Minibus taxis are the main form of transport for rural black people. There are thousands of these taxis on the roads. I have never seen any such messages on the back of any taxis.
And 70,00 people? Such an "exact" number? No more, no less?

Large amounts of AK-47's, ammunition, hand grenades, and even incendiary devices are carried secretly by night in trucks to arms dumps in KwaNonqba by Mosselbay, and other black townships countrywide.

Again no proof of this is given. It does not make sense to collect all the weapons in Mosselbay, as Mosselbay is down in the Cape Province more than a thousand kilometres from Johannesburg. It is not mentioned where the weapons come from and how it is paid for.

This is also happening in smaller towns in all the nine provinces. When a white policeman from the Boland

a region in the Northern Cape

recently confronted a black colleague about this, telling him he was aware of 'Operation White Cleanup, the black laughingly replied: "We don't care that you know. On the contrary, we don't care if all whites know about this, because you'll do nothing to stop it." The white policeman couldn't answer the black - knowing with dismay that it was the truth. Blacks are working with Americans and British

Here it is first mentioned how the super power countries are involved in this.

liberals behind the scenes on Operation Uhuru and Operation Iron Eagle and will use Mandela's death to sow anarchy.

Again no names are given. Anonymous rumours.

A senior ANC consultant, Mzukizi Gaba, told a police officer who arrested him for driving on the wrong side of the N1 in the Cape: "The day Mandela dies, we will kill you whites like flies!"
This report appeared in the Cape Argus in 1996. Murders of whites, especially Afrikaners, have already begun. The official HNP newspaper of the Herstigte Nasionale Party mentioned in an article: "Farm murders taking their toll among Afrikaners." In the period between 1991 - 2002, a total of 1287 farmers have been murdered during attacks on farms. More whites have died violently than during the duration of the 'bush war. The "war of the flea" is being waged against whites, in other words, an undeclared war.

This has some truth in it. White farmers are often killed by black attackers. These killings have declined since the late 90’s. It’s unknown whether these murders were politically fuelled or just crimes for money and land.

At present Mandela is being treated for prostrate cancer and is now living on borrowed time.

Mandela was diagnosed with cancer in July 2001. He is doing well, and as far as sources go the treatment was successful. He is in goo health.

At present there is also the so-called 'New Firearms Act that will be enforced on whites to disarm them to facilitate Operation White Cleanup, making it difficult for whites to defend themselves.

A new Firearm act makes it extremely difficult to legally own a gun, and a person is limited to one firearm per person – with a few exceptions like collectors and hunters. You also need to do a psychological evalution and do a shooting course.

We have bigger problems than we - or the outside world - realise...

Other versions of the mail are much longer. They go further by explaining how the New World Order is being implemented and uses examples such as the “new” Euro monetary unit to support its claims.
These are some more extracts I translated from Afrikaans from the site (and are not direct quotes):

There are no longer cultures true to any nation. Everyone knows McDonalds, everyone drinks Coca Cola and everyone watches TV. The world is actually busy becoming one big English/American state. The media teaches us to make fun of our own cultures and to follow worldly fashions. In South Africa the Afrikaner is made fun of by the younger generation. In America typical patriots are called “Red Necks” and are also made fun of. And it’s like this all over the world.

South Africa was throughout the years a religious, loyal and patriotic country. This was a problem for the New World Order to get South Africa to join the global village. South Africans wouldn’t fall for it…

Another reason is that South Africa is rich in resources. Britain, Russia and America all want a part of the riches and to get to it, they’ll have to take over the country.

The plan is to create chaos. That would be the ANC’s job.
The ANC is the current ruling political party.
As soon as the country’s government, economy and security are “destroyed”, the UN will take over and will create an interim government through which the NWO will take over.
In the end it’s all about money and racial hate towards white South Africans. Our God gave us this beautiful country, and the rest of the world doesn’t like the idea [are jealous]. Blacks are being brainwashed to hate and kill and do the work of the World Power. Just look at Mandela who blames Apartheid for the suffering of his people. On TV everything is about all the horrible events that supposedly happened during the Apartheid’s years, and daily it’s shown that South Africa is a country of peace and democracy for the past 10 years.
I have no idea what the point was behind this paragraph.

We’ve got information from a hardware store in Northern Pretoria (name known to us) that in the past month
I don’t know the precise date, it just says in the past month
38,000 machetes (long knifes) were sold to blacks. Some come in and buy 20 at a time. The same happened in the 60’s in Kenya and the Congo. The blacks are getting instructions from their ancestors to ready themselves. In our parts we often hear the African drums at night.
According to my knowledge the writer of the article lives on the outskirts of Pretoria. Sotho and Xhosa tribes – although real tribes no longer exist - inhabit these parts. The truth is Zulu warriors generally used “African drums” as communication. I haven’t seen or a heard an “African Drum” for ages. The only place you’ll find them being played are at tourist attractions for obvious reasons.

At this stage some parts from the Song of Solomon (7:12) and Isaiah (18:5-6; 27:12) and are quoted completely out of context and supposedly directly translated from Hebrew. The great Afrikaner prophet “Siener van Rensburg” and another prophetess Johanna Brandt is further quoted with some of their visions supposedly also predicting this attack on whites. The truth is that most of their predictions, especially Siener van Rensburg’s predictions are much like Nostradamus’ predictions. Open to interpretation. For example he describes corncobs burning outside Johannesburg. This is interpreted as buildings being burned in Johannesburg.

In Conclusion
And that’s about it. Some of it might be lost in translation.
Similar fears spread through the country just before the 1994 elections. There were talks of war. (White) People gathered emergency supplies and stocked up on ammunition. Those who could afford it fled the country. (Which explains the many South Africans in Australia, New Zeeland, Canada, London and the US.) Nothing came of it.

But how real is the threat? It’s no secret that many blacks hate white people. And they would love to kick white people out of South Africa, or even kill them all if they had the chance. I would say the majority of this group is generally male and aged between 16 and 30. While the opposite is also true. There is a group of white people that would love to see the country back in “white power”. This group is also male and generally aged 40 to 70.

Since the big changes in South Africa (i.e. democracy) the latter group – white right-wingers – have tried on several occasions to overthrow the government, and failed miserably. Their previous plans included bombing of strategic places (which failed – little damage was ever done) and the murdering of prominent political leaders – especially targeting communist supporters. But they could (and still can’t) never get a foothold. They are ridiculously outnumbered and have little to no resources.

And this is, in my opinion, where Uhuru comes in. This is their new strategy. To get white people to unite against blacks. They give no clear way of how to prevent all of this to happen. And I guess that’s where the Daughter of Sion comes in. Scared people looking for help and answers – the church: Daughter of Sion ready to gather a flock and provide the “necessary answers”. Propaganda. A conspiracy to divide a united country.

But it’s not all that impossible. Take a quick glance at Zimbabwe. It was decolonised recently. White people physically chased from their land. While the rest of the world turned a blind eye. Britain sent troops to Iraq, and forgot about their ancestors and settlers in Zimbabwe. I guess Blair wouldn’t gain any political ground by helping out the Zimbabwean?
In South Africa white people are more or less outnumbered four to one by black people. The new weapons legislation are disarming them (while extremists will keep their firearms illegally.) If it should happen, the white folks wouldn’t just sit back and wait to be slaughtered. They will not be going down without a fight. A full fletched civil war. Or rather racial war. The rest of the world will again just look the other way, not knowing how to approach a very difficult political situation.

It’s no secret (maybe it is to the outside world) that the racial political situation in South Africa isn’t exactly stable.

But all that said, I think Uhuru – the great White Slaughter – is nothing but white extremist propaganda. A conspiracy that is far from unlikely, but so close to impossible.

For those who bothered to read through all of this, thanks. I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on all of this. You might feel that this does not concern you, but according to the conspiracy, the USA, Britain and the UK will have a strong involvement in the whole "cleansing process", in order to finally achieve the goals of the New World Order.

Hmm..
Interesting topic of conversation.
I went into this thread thinking that I would find some rant, but upon closer look I see a fascinating hypothesis.
I will look into the topic further.

Thought provoking stuff.
Good thread!

I too think this is most interesting. Wow, I knew there was unrest between the races, but I never knew of a plan of genocide.

I would love to hear from some other South Africans. I wonder what the sentiment is on both sides about this. As for the decolonization of Zimbabwe, I was totally unaware of this. I guess the US media played it down.

I sincerly hope this thread gets the attention it deserves. Thank you for bringing it to our forum.

Considering that the boers and englishers in South Africa enslaved and then later made apart the blacks and bushmen of the country, I can't say I feel sympathy for them suffering from this paranoia. That is what I think that this is, paranoia. The idea that everything lies in wait for mandella to die certainly has a mythic ring to it. I very much doubt that a conspiracy would wait for something like that as the 'trigger', especially something like this, it'd be far too massive, there's too many people invovled to forumlate the plan and prepare across the country, and then just sit and wait. Perhaps if part of the plan was to assasinate mandela, and use it as a false flag operation to act against the afrikaners, then that'd be more likely.

I notice Chris Botha is involved, is he related to or a heir of the Bothas?

A Xhosa word that roughly translates into “Night of the Long Knives

Odd that it is also the name of an event from hitler's nazi germany.
Perhaps the boers are calling it that, taking something from their own (admitedly distant) history.

"The day Mandela dies, we will kill you whites like flies!"

Interesting that this is said. I'd think it makes sense, the Boers don't necesarily respect mandela, so why would they invent this conspiracy theory that waits until mandela, the 'pacifist' (post-imprisonment anyways) dies for the violence to start. But it makes sense as a sentiment amoung the blacks, who would be in effect saying 'we;re going to get back at you, but not disrespect our mandela while he is alive'. However, hyperbole and sentiment are different from an organized conspiracy.
Also, seems rather odd that this 70,000 man army, waiting for just johanesburg, can keep low and only this one guy lets it slip.

could this just be a self fulfilling prophecy? I mean if the idea needed to get out there, the rumor mill is working.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Considering that the boers and englishers in South Africa enslaved and then later made apart the blacks and bushmen of the country, I can't say I feel sympathy for them suffering from this paranoia.

I agree with you in some odd way. "They" have what's coming to them. But that said, it's not really fair, is it? Why should I pay for the mistakes of my ancestors? If this is true, then I will be murdered because of my ancestors' mistakes. I can't even begin to explain to you how much I'm already "paying" for the bad choice of apartheid.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I very much doubt that a conspiracy would wait for something like that as the 'trigger', especially something like this, it'd be far too massive, there's too many people invovled to forumlate the plan and prepare across the country, and then just sit and wait. Perhaps if part of the plan was to assasinate mandela, and use it as a false flag operation to act against the afrikaners, then that'd be more likely.

It makes perfect sense that a "framed" assassination of Mandela could be used as an excuse to attack Afrikaners. But no one would dare to touch Mandela. He is seen as a god in many of the black cultures. And on the other hand many hate him because he united blacks and whites.
Mandela is well aware of the rumor and has reacted with this in newspapers:

"My health is all right," he told reporters in Cape Town. "I'm doing very well. Others have gone further and said I am on the eve of going to my grave. If that day comes, I will go and knock at the door of heaven. ... They will look at the list and say: 'Your name is not here ... can you try next door?'"

Source
Strange words from a Nobel Peace Prize winner.

But I'm sure if Mandela thought the rumors to be true, he'd do some more to reassure people?

Originally posted by Nygdan
I notice Chris Botha is involved, is he related to or a heir of the Bothas?

I have no idea. The Botha family is a very common surname in South Africa, and it would be difficult for an outsider to know if Chris Botha is one of the "significant" Botha's. Interesting thought, Nygdan. I doubt that he is part of P.W. Botha's family, though, but many other Botha’s are self-proclaimed leaders.

Originally posted by Nygdan

A Xhosa word that roughly translates into “Night of the Long Knives

Odd that it is also the name of an event from hitler's nazi germany.
Perhaps the boers are calling it that, taking something from their own (admitedly distant) history.

Well, the black people supposedly chose the name. And the Afrikaner does not see himself as a descendant of Germans. They see themselves as a nation in their own right, regardless from which European country they are originally from. But now that you mention it... A form of the Swastika and several other Nazi symbolisms do appear on some of the (white) right-wing groups' apparel.


This is the AWB's flag.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Also, seems rather odd that this 70,000 man army, waiting for just johanesburg, can keep low and only this one guy lets it slip.

Exactly. The rumor is very vague as to exactly where the 70,000-man army will come from. Johannesburg is also an extremely broad term for an even bigger area. Using only 70,000 men will mean that by the time they get to Pretoria, they'll be greatly outnumbered. There is also little said about the other cities...

Originally posted by shadow watchercould this just be a self fulfilling prophecy? I mean if the idea needed to get out there, the rumor mill is working.

I think if this turned out to be true, then you might be spot on here. A rumor - possibly started by a small black (or even white!) group - ends up in the ears of many black people. Mandela dies, and they took the rumor to be the truth, and starts killing white people all over. There really was no plan of Uhuru, but as you said, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Originally posted by shadow watcher
As for the decolonization of Zimbabwe, I was totally unaware of this. I guess the US media played it down.

There were (and still are) some horrors in Zimbabwe. We don't really know everything that's going on in there as Mugabe's soldiers locks up anyone who might resemble media. The only reason why South Africans know so much about what really happened is because when the decolonization started, most of the (white and many black) people fled to South Africa - being the closest and safest neighboring country. I can assure you that international media did extremely little to cover the events in Zimbabwe.

The UK, US, Canada, and numerous other nations would likely squash any such movement long before it got going.
It is unthinkable that they would stand by and let white people get slaughtered. Not a chance, they're white.
I read a post that mentioned the lack of media coverage of the brutal land reclamation savagery in Zimbabwe. In my opinion, there was more coverage for that than any news out of Africa in years. I remember seeing a headline in a local newspaper, "Man killed in Africa." and I had to read it, curious why this particular death in Africa was so newsworthy, since people are killed in Africa all the time. It was a white farmer killed in Zimbabwe when thugs invaded his farm. I saw something wrong with that story. It's very existance as a news item told me that the media finds the death of a white man more significant than a black man. That was just my feeling when I thought about it.
In a similar vein, at the same time when less than 10 000 people died in the Bosnia conflict some years ago, the news kept a running death toll, and the media covered the war daily, for months. In Rwanda, at the same time, over 500 000 people were killed in a bloody civil war. That story was hardly noted. Why? What made the 10 000 deaths in Bosnia so important that it garnered daily updates, while 500 000 deaths in Rwanda was virtually ignored? Why? I wonder. When the media did not follow the Zimababwe tragedy very closely, they were not doing anything different than they always do, which is not publishing much news out of Africa.
The difference was that in the Zimbabwe killings, the killings were of whites, and that would normally qualify it for better coverage.
Only time will tell whether humanity can ever start to live and let live...

Originally posted by Gemwolf

Originally posted by Nygdan
Considering that the boers and englishers in South Africa enslaved and then later made apart the blacks and bushmen of the country, I can't say I feel sympathy for them suffering from this paranoia.

I agree with you in some odd way. "They" have what's coming to them. But that said, it's not really fair, is it?

Certainly no one shoudl be killed. Also, 'ancestors' is kinda stretching it, apartheid was part of the government's policy up until, what, a decade or two ago?

A form of the Swastika and several other Nazi symbolisms do appear on some of the (white) right-wing groups' apparel.

Have you heard of the fictional Drakka, btw? It also seems odd beyond coincidence that they'd use the term 'night of the long knives'. Perhaps if it isn't the boers calling it this, its the blacks recognizing the term as meaningful from german history.

BlackGuardXIII
It is unthinkable that they would stand by and let white people get slaughtered. Not a chance, they're white.

Indeed. If this was to happen, infact, it'd probably be going on at the same time as the continuing genocide in the sudan. But there wouldnt' be any talk about 'africa needs to organize and cooperate to be able to handle its own problems'.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Certainly no one shoudl be killed. Also, 'ancestors' is kinda stretching it, apartheid was part of the government's policy up until, what, a decade or two ago?

Maybe "ancestor" isn't the right word. The worst part of Apartheid was about 30 years ago, when the black people started standing up against their oppressors and all the years before that from General Hertzog's time onward. It wasn't as bad in the 80's when the government had to deal with bombings from the black "terrorists" (the word that was used by the government) as well as international pressure. They didn't have much time to actually enforce Apartheid.
The actual changes (of freeing Nelson Mandela and giving black people equal rights) took place in the early 90's. Now, I was about 10 at that stage. I had no part of Apartheid; still I'm among those paying for Apartheid, i.e. the mistakes of the generations before mine.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Have you heard of the fictional Drakka, btw? It also seems odd beyond coincidence that they'd use the term 'night of the long knives'. Perhaps if it isn't the boers calling it this, its the blacks recognizing the term as meaningful from german history.

I'm not familiar with "Drakka". I'd like to hear the connection?
Well, the blacks actually call it Uhuru (according to the urban legend), and it's the Daughter of Sion (people spreading the rumour) that translated the word to "Night of the Long Knives" from Xhosa. I looked up the word in my Xhosa dictionary, unable to find it. The only translation I could find was "Freedom" coming from Swahili. It's unlikely that blacks would use a Nazi reference on purpose - as they have no interest in Western history whatsoever. You'll find the word "Uhuru" being used as codename during several African rebellions and civil wars, but I think it has a different meaning (figurative) in each culture.

Originally posted by Nygdan

BlackGuardXIII
It is unthinkable that they would stand by and let white people get slaughtered. Not a chance, they're white.

Indeed. If this was to happen, infact, it'd probably be going on at the same time as the continuing genocide in the sudan. But there wouldnt' be any talk about 'africa needs to organize and cooperate to be able to handle its own problems'.

According to the rumour the UN will lend a helping hand - but only to fulfil the "big plan". Instate the New World Order. Personally I think it's a bit far-fetched to say the least.
But slightly off-topic. Zimbabwe is an old British colony, thus many white people living there are of British descent. Yet Britain turned a blind eye when white people were murdered during the decolonisation. Does independence from the British crown mean that the Britain no longer has any more responsibility towards the country? They sent the white people there in the first place! They sent thousands of British troops to go take the country from the blacks with force, and when the blacks take the country back, then they don't send a single soldier or protector? Where's the loyalty towards their own people and sense of responsibility there?

Hi Gemwolf,

I am a white South African in the same position that you are. I was 13 when Apartheid came to an end. Some of my best friends are black, and indian. Your post has seriously sobered me up. Ive walked down a street in Cape Town and have felt some pretty ugly stares sent my way.

I remember walking into a cafe/bar once in Cape Town, I was looking to buy some smokes and the looks that the 3 black guys gave me sent shivers down my spine, they wouldnt even talk to me.

However, Im not sure that this whole 'operation' would take place as what would be left behind? White people in South Africa still perform important functions in terms of jobs. The vacuum that would be created would not be filled very quickly, think too of tourism. I am in the tourism business and if suddenly there was mass genocide then I dont think too many people would be visiting SA for a long time. That has huge implications.

However, that said, I enjoyed reading your post and I really hope that this does not happen. Keep up the good work.

Ian

Originally posted by eoyn
Hi Gemwolf,

I remember walking into a cafe/bar once in Cape Town, I was looking to buy some smokes and the looks that the 3 black guys gave me sent shivers down my spine, they wouldnt even talk to me.

However, Im not sure that this whole 'operation' would take place as what would be left behind? White people in South Africa still perform important functions in terms of jobs. The vacuum that would be created would not be filled very quickly, think too of tourism. I am in the tourism business and if suddenly there was mass genocide then I dont think too many people would be visiting SA for a long time. That has huge implications.

However, that said, I enjoyed reading your post and I really hope that this does not happen. Keep up the good work.

Ian

Hey Ian,

Always great to hear from other South Africans on ATS!

You're quite right. I don't think we'll get rid of the racial tension any time soon. Any South African can tell you about those times and events where the tension could be cut with a knife. It doesn't happen that often, but it does happen. The stares, glares and snide remarks between the races.

And you are right about the implications this "operation" would have on South Africa, and Africa as a whole. It would destroy the country completely. But history taught us that evil men are not stopped by rational thoughts. It's selfish greed that drives them.

But, I've spent a lot of time looking into this rumour, as it scared the crap out of me the first time I read it, and however real the threat may be, it is a highly unlikely event.

'Ive walked down a street in Cape Town and have felt some pretty ugly stares sent my way.

I remember walking into a cafe/bar once in Cape Town, I was looking to buy some smokes and the looks that the 3 black guys gave me sent shivers down my spine, they wouldnt even talk to me.'

eoyn
I can imagine that would have been tense. I live in Canada, and five years of being involved with a black lady really opened my eyes. The historical prejudices, discrimination, fear, and even hatred is still here. It is covert now, which I try to use as my excuse for not seeing it sooner. It really is unconscionable that in the 21st century, people still don't get it.
I got questions from friends and family once it was clear our relationship was serious, questions I didn't understand, they asked why I didn't pick a white girl....I wasn't shopping for a car, I never favoured any skin colour. I was speechless, had no answer. Then there were so many subtle things... I often missed them.... but once she pointed them out and I knew to look for them.....I was blind. That relationship ended in 2000, and I am now engaged to a Native Indian woman. You know, in Canada the treatment of Native Indian people is criminal. And when I go out with my fiance, I can easily see that she and I are even less acceptable. It is more socially acceptable I guess to be openly biased against Native Indians. What this is going to take to resolve.... I don't know. But, I do know now what the face of bigotry looks like, much more clearly.
It is everywhere.

Hi ya BlackGuardXIII,

I have never been into discrimination, like Gemwolf I was still very young in the 'heyday' of Apartheid. It just simply did not enter my thoughts that I was supposed to be 'better' then those around me that had a differant colour. I also went to school with blacks, indians, and chinese, these were my friends. I find it very sad that I can get accused of racism because of the 'sins' of our fathers! However, saying that, I first left South Africa in 1997 and lived in New York for 5 years and then London for 3 years, and in my travels I encountered far worse racism in these countries then in my own. South Africa displayed it to the world, the National Party ( the white governement that made Apartheid happen ) chose to make racism legal. I found in my experience that the UK and USA did it behind close doors so to speak. Sure, the Civil rights movement happened in the US, but on the street level I dont think it did much. This is just my opinion. People love to hate!

This might be a little off the topic that was intended here, but the new rasicm devide I think is against those that have Middle Eastern descent. I know that in London after 7/7 there was huge resenment against muslims. At the end of the day, I just want to live my life in peace, and I would like those around me whoever they may be to do the same.

Back to the topic, I just do not understand people who choose to continue holding grudges against people who in all actuality did nothing to them. As gemwolf said, most of those who actually believed in the Apartheid system are now pushing upper 50's in age. The white young of South Africa mostly do not care about colour. At the end of the day they are all just trying to make a life for themselves in this 'Rainbow' Nation. Maybe one day people will stop making excuses, stop blaming other people for their situation and decide to be pro-active and make their lives better and in doing so make this planet a more harmonious place to be.

Once again, great posting Gemwolf. Scary but worth pondering.

This sounds like they are depending on peoples paranoia to set a hair trigger.

If this view starts being held by people in great numbers and after Mandela dies, a "normal" violent crime that happens to be committed by a black person might trigger a bloody "defense" on the part of those who believe it's the start of the Uhuru.

:::EDIT:::

Hummmm something happened, this post was much longer. looks like I cut and pasted the wrong thing.

[edit on 1/13/2006 by Cug]

A self-fufiling prophecy, so to speak, eh Cug? That'd be interesting. I'd bet that similar things in history have happened that way too.

i DON'T HAVE MUCH TO SAY ABOUT YOUR THREADS, JUST ONE QUESTION:

When last have you been to South Africa? If you're staying here, how many of your relatives has been robbed? Hijacked etc?

Before you judge white South Africans go there and stay for 1 or 2 months or years, and then post your reply again.

Originally posted by Diela
i DON'T HAVE MUCH TO SAY ABOUT YOUR THREADS, JUST ONE QUESTION:

When last have you been to South Africa? If you're staying here, how many of your relatives has been robbed? Hijacked etc?

Before you judge white South Africans go there and stay for 1 or 2 months or years, and then post your reply again.

To who is your post/question directed?

Every one who has something to say about the "good" state South Africa is in now. Believe you me most of the people are to scared to leave their homes, I heard that round about 1 in 5 or 6 people has had an encounter with thugs. Now if that is our wonderful new 'non-apartheid' I do not want to be there!!!!!!!!!

Oh and why would you want to live in a crime infested, aids ridden, Islamic fundamentalist harbouring (Durban) rape capital of the world state like south africa any way? Sorry, but if I was white and could , I'd leave them to rot personally whilst I jetted out.

Sorry rant over. Bear this in mind. When Mugabe started to purge Zimbabwe of whites, south africas president actively helped him by fortifing the borders to stop whites getting into south africa and being able to flee to safety. This led to many many white farmers being murdered by the mugabe regime. Did the world lift a finger to stop this genocide? No. And why not? because the victims were white farmers who the trendy western elite viewed as the oppressors of Black Africa. Look at the state of Zimbabwe and South Africa now - There falling to pieces and filled with crime, murder, hate and fear. Oh and why? because its seen as acceptable that if a poor black wants to rob or rape a rich white, well its bad, but..... Theres always a but when its black on white crime. Always an excuse. Oh heres a few years of Durbans crime stats - This is for Durban not the whole of S.Africa.
www.ceroi.net...

Theres no easy solution to this, but heres a brief qoute from a friend of mine Bruce who was a farmer in Zimbabwe.

"They killed my Dad, killed all my workers, killed all my friends, just to steal my land. I went back to look at the damage in 2005, and its a dust bowl. Mugabe has got his way with the help of the western elite and south africa. Whites are being driven out of Africa, and africa is being driven back into the stone age. The only difference is that in the stone age they didn't have guns."


[edit on 6-3-2006 by MadGreebo]

I left SA in 2002 and came here to California, this is the first time i have heard of the plan. I know the blacks wanted to take over all the white farms when Zimbabwe did but the leaders told them not to try anything stupid. The blacks are very easily manipulated, they believe having sex with a virgin will cure them of Aids so they go and gang rape little kids from as young as 9 months.

I'm sure there will be some violence when Mandela dies but i doubt anyone will try and start a civil war. We have highly trained special forces and a very effective private sector. I think any plan they might have will stand little chance of being successful.