Saddam did NOT GAS HIS OWN PEOPLE

Ah, bandit is Unien/Fulcrum? Have you been a bad boy again, Uni? Tsk Tsk.

Yes, I know my Kurds, Unien. Who cares if they are ignorant savages?

THE MIDDLE EAST IS POPULATED BY IGNORANT SAVAGES, YET THEY ALL HAVE THIER OWN NATIONS!

Just like the Palestinians deserve thier own country, the Kurds deserve thiers. Whether or not they will # it up, is not my concern, only that they have thier own nation to # up.

If the white supremecists wanted thier own nation in the US, Id gladly give it to them. They are ignorant svages too, and Id be glad to get rid of them and give them thier own hunk of dirt that they can # up on thier own whim. But not because they are a distinct ethnic group, but because they simply are a hiissance the US can do without. Thus, sending them to some big fat hunk of wasteland would be good for us.

Iraq was an artifically created nation to begin with. The people in Iraq had no say in the formations of thier country, it was drawn up, borders and all, by foreigners. Thus, them being forced to live under the same banner is wrong. If they wanna divide, then let them.

Same with the Chchnyian rebels. Russia will save themselves alot of headaches if they simply cut off the rebels, give them thier own chunk of land, and let them run it into the ground.

Human beings in general are ignorant savages

Originally posted by Bandit

Originally posted by goregrinder
bandit, read a book. Aukai Collins, an Iris-American, joined the Chechyn jihadists and he didnt know any arabic languages at the time.

You really are trying your best to get rid off me?

I am not going to Chechenya to fight Russians. (there are many easier ways to get killed and fast..)

Only place im fighting Russians, if the need comes, is in defence of my Fathers Land Finland.

Gee, I wonder why anyone would want to get rid of you.


1) YES THE KURDS DO DESERVE THIER OWN NATION, I don't give a flying # what the UN says about it, they have been there a long time, no one else uses the land, give it to them, they are more entitled that the idiot Palestines who decide to blow us a coffee shop and kill innocent children everytime they don't get their way.

2) Why don't you argue points you understand, this is way over your head, start with the basics, like geography.

3) I agree with Gore, stay gone you barely ever post usefull information, and when you do you clutter it with inane points that confuse more than convince.


The kurds were gassed by Saddam, whether he signed a paper or not, nothing happened in his country without his knowing, trust me.

If you examine the evidence out there, it seems apparent that both Iraq and Iran gassed troops in civilian areas of North Iraq, causing civilian casualties due to the gasses used. Therefore, the claim that he gassed his own people, is essentially valid, regardless of whether Iran did likewise. Do I think it was wrong to do so? Well, that isn't the point of the thread is it? All victims did not die of the same poisons...this is one of the main points of contention as far as I am aware.... However, it seems that each story is biased either towards Iran or Iraq being the culprit... The available evidence seems to suggest both doing so, which would still support the US claim. Does that make it a pretext for the war? Well no, nor was it the reason (as I'm sure many here agree)...but again, that isn't the point of the thread either, hehe....

ooooooohhhhhh there's a suprise, I come to a thread which has been destoyed by THENEO and GG bullying/aggressive tactics and inability to stay on topic. Yes, FULCRUM comes out with some extreme # that even I can't abide, but at least he remains cool and explains his reasons. You two just then resort to insults and disagreeing even though you bring little to no evidence to back it up.
GG you have even attacked and bullied me for just posting news articles, well I've looked through alot of your posts and they are either news articles with a line of opinion by you or you disagreeing/bullying/going off topic on someone elses thread and not even have the evidence to back them up.

As far as the THENEO is concerned he is just a sad case who doesn't even deserve to be listened to, but you seem to have some intelligence now and then, why don't you just let go of your hate and accept that people can have different opinions to you? Springer, you seemed to go pretty far with your insults as well, I thought you were better than that. Shame on you.

No suprise to see TC show up to lead the pack as he does. FULCRUM/Bandit whatever, chill out with some of your extreme statements, you prove your points just fine without them and they only just drag you into the gutter, don't drop to this lots level.

I was taking it all "in stride" until he EDITED his crap, came back and said his post was clean and he didn't say anything disgusting... That's PURE Cowardace where I come from...

I don't give a rat's ass if he's a Nazi, Commie, or white supremist, that's HIS deal, BUT hwne he tries to insult my intelligence by LIEING I'll say something about it...

Just my nature I guess.

PEACE...
m...

Originally posted by Gazrok
If you examine the evidence out there, it seems apparent that both Iraq and Iran gassed troops in civilian areas of North Iraq, causing civilian casualties due to the gasses used. Therefore, the claim that he gassed his own people, is essentially valid, regardless of whether Iran did likewise. Do I think it was wrong to do so? Well, that isn't the point of the thread is it?

All victims did not die of the same poisons...this is one of the main points of contention as far as I am aware.... However, it seems that each story is biased either towards Iran or Iraq being the culprit... The available evidence seems to suggest both doing so, which would still support the US claim. Does that make it a pretext for the war? Well no, nor was it the reason (as I'm sure many here agree)...but again, that isn't the point of the thread either, hehe....

Very good point!!!!!!

John, i will say this, and there's no need to respond, because i dont need to dignify your attacks. If you really look at my posts, youll find the majority of them are in pursuit of debate. I will debate points i find disagreeable, that is the spirit of discussion. You're just another left-wingnut, so i take your assertions with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by Springer
I was taking it all "in stride" until he EDITED his crap, came back and said his post was clean and he didn't say anything disgusting... That's PURE Cowardace where I come from...

I don't give a rat's ass if he's a Nazi, Commie, or white supremist, that's HIS deal, BUT hwne he tries to insult my intelligence by LIEING I'll say something about it...

Just my nature I guess.

PEACE...
m...

Well regardless of your reasons mate, anyone who calls me son, regardless of what I've done, I'd punch their #ing lights out. I guess that's just the way I am, that's why you were out of order. Other than that we're cool dude.

Originally posted by THENEO
Besides how many people in the middle east are innocent?

If I had to give an example of a racist statement, I would use this one.

[Edited on 29-9-2003 by Salem]

Originally posted by goregrinder
John, i will say this, and there's no need to respond, because i dont need to dignify your attacks. If you really look at my posts, youll find the majority of them are in pursuit of debate. I will debate points i find disagreeable, that is the spirit of discussion. You're just another left-wingnut, so i take your assertions with a grain of salt.

That is very true GG you do debate, it just never seems to be about the subject of the thread but more of someones political stance. You truely believe you have something important to say don't you?
Someone who calls me a left-wingnut for not agreeing with them is not debating, they are TELLING(dictator style) and insulting, there is no room for feedback with you.

From the way you attach laughing faces on the end of nearly all your points to try and redicule someone, I'd guess you were about 17 or tragically immature. Either way you haven't had enough life experience to know how things really work in this world and insults coming from someone with 2 pubes doesn't really bother me.

This is why you can be a Bush Apologist and keep a straight face. Don't blame me because you are in the "I'm 17, I know everything and I'm angry at the world and my dad".

Come back and talk to me when you've got some hair on your ass.

Over and out.

[Edited on 29-9-2003 by John Nada]

Actually, i'm 25 and in grad school. I'm done with this conversation, but i'll give you one more parting piece of advice. People like Uninen get what they give. You are doing the same thing to me that you accuse me of doing. yet another bit of ATS hypocrisy.

Originally posted by John Nada

Originally posted by goregrinder
John, i will say this, and there's no need to respond, because i dont need to dignify your attacks. If you really look at my posts, youll find the majority of them are in pursuit of debate. I will debate points i find disagreeable, that is the spirit of discussion. You're just another left-wingnut, so i take your assertions with a grain of salt.

That is very true GG you do debate, it just never seems to be about the subject of the thread but more of someones political stance. You truely believe you have something important to say don't you?

Someone who calls me a left-wingnut for not agreeing with them is not debating, they are TELLING(dictator style) and insulting, there is no room for feedback with you.

From the way you attach laughing faces on the end of nearly all your points to try and redicule someone, I'd guess you were about 17 or tragically immature. Either way you haven't had enough life experience to know how things really work in this world and insults coming from someone with 2 pubes doesn't really bother me.

This is why you can be a Bush Apologist and keep a straight face. Don't blame me because you are in the "I'm 17, I know everything and I'm angry at the world and my dad".

Come back and talk to me when you've got some hair on your ass.

Over and out.

[Edited on 29-9-2003 by John Nada]

John, you are just as bad as the rest, this holier than though image you try to show isn't fooling anyone.


i really find it funny that you defend someone with vigor (see this copy) but cry foul when they do the same for goregrinder.


Play in down the line or don't play at all,

Your aspersions were cast, they responded, live with it, it's only fair.


Funny how people here forget what or how they post.




[Edited on 29-9-2003 by Shining Wizard]

I would say that the statement that the Bush Adminstration keeps trotting out "Well he gassed his own people" is technically true, but it needs to be explained further, it can't be boiled down to one simple phrase. "He is so evil he dropped poison gas on his people!"

Of course it's a serious crime, but WHAT THE HELL DID THE U.S. DO ABOUT IT AS IT WAS HAPPENING? Nothing. Nada. Bupkiss. It was in the '80's. Did they even have any strong words for Saddam? Nope, just silence. From the entire world community.

But now that they need a REASON to go to war, they trot it out as a reason (now that their search for WMDs is shown as a sham). It's ludicrous and insulting. If they had have given a flying crap about the Kurds they would have done something about it immediately, not decades later. And they wouldn't have sold Saddam weapons and chemicals AFTER the attack, though they did.

For me that's the crux of the argument. If it happened years ago and you LET it happen and you don't CONDEMN it, then any moral high ground you want to stand on is just a large pile of excrement.

It's propaganda. Not the fact of it, but how it's used years later.

When Powell went to Iraq he visited the site of the gas attacks. You want to know where he didn't visit? He didn't visit ANY injured U.S. troops. None. Fire up that PR machine, boys, we need to start up Operation Justify The Invasion.

jakomo

John Nada,

Thanks for the support, and for 'understanding' my views..

('understanding' for that you see that these have at least some facts in their support..)

(and you are also right in that i should be 'little bit' less extreme.. that only happens because i sometimes take things personally.. when JUMPED by GG and Springer.. :dn



But lets leave GG and Spriger here.. alone..

As i for one dont want or have the energy to listen their insults.

Btw, guys.. if you hate OBL as you do, you shuold also hate the Kurd PKK, and alike Kurd groups..

Oh and I almost forgot.

Bandit, you make me laugh every time I see one of your posts. They're disjointed, racist, and about grade 3 or 4 level education.

"Don say nothing to me, unless you know the god damn facts.

Treason is a treason, to rebel against gov. is treason.

For treason there is punishment.

It is called death.

I am glad that the Iraqis didnt kill them all, but most of those that did die, deserved it as they were rebels."

I have a question for you. Wasn't the USA created by people who no longer wanted to be subservient to another government? Wasn't the US's INDEPENDANCE a rebellion against a government? Did the Founding Fathers deserve to be strung up for high treason? What color is the sky in your simple little Dr. Seuss world?

And who's Don?

jakomo

[Edited on 29-9-2003 by Jakomo]

Originally posted by Jakomo
Oh and I almost forgot.

Bandit, you make me laugh every time I see one of your posts. They're disjointed, racist, and about grade 3 or 4 level education.

"Don say nothing to me, unless you know the god damn facts.

Treason is a treason, to rebel against gov. is treason.

For treason there is punishment.

It is called death.

I am glad that the Iraqis didnt kill them all, but most of those that did die, deserved it as they were rebels."

I have a question for you. Wasn't the USA created by people who no longer wanted to be subservient to another government? Wasn't the US's INDEPENDANCE a rebellion against a government? Did the Founding Fathers deserve to be strung up for high treason? What color is the sky in your simple little Dr. Seuss world?

And who's Don?

jakomo

+t = Dont..

You are being a really funny Jakomo..

Funny to see you attacking me.. as you make belive to be a 'defender'.. but i see you are not.

Go and give Mr.Bush a big kiss..

And yes.. it is treason.. if you fail.. if you dont fail.. you get yourselfs a nation.. like US did..

But had the 'US freedom fighters' failed, surely it would have been ok to hang em.

As they would have been just Brittish rebels (criminals).. and not the victors of 'freedom war'.

Thats the way the life goes.. if you win, you get the choose, if lose the terms or whatever are dictated to you. (and usually the victors will claim that the 'loser' i a criminal.)

bandit: Try to string together two consecutive thoughts (thoughts that MAKE SENSE, please), and I'll consider arguing with you.

"Funny to see you attacking me.. as you make belive to be a 'defender'.. but i see you are not. "

I am a defender, I just don't defend stupidity. And I'd especially not defend you with your sweeping "All Kurds are scum" arguments.

jakomo

Originally posted by Bandit
Springer,

I really wanted to leave.. but many wanted me to stay.

So, being a BIG DEMOCRAD, i decided to stay.. and btw.. FULCRUM isnt banned nor ignored.. maybe i should use the FULCRUMs points to buy you and GG a ban?

As i have plenty.

And btw, i havent claimed that 'Chemical Ali' was a gardener.. sure 'he' was kept busy gassing Iranians, and maybe Kurds also.. so?

Treason is a Treason, and for Treason there is punishment: DEAHT.

So Bandit riddle me this:

Let's say you are a German soldier in 1944 and you are the guy in charge of throwing the lever or switch or whatever at Auswechts excuse the spelling) and you will kill hundreds or thousands by gassing them if you do. You decide that it is wrong to do this, as these Jewish people are only guilty of being jewish..children, women, old men, etc...

You tell your superiors that you will not throw the switch or push the button or whatever and you are summarily taken out and shot dead in front of all the other "guards" at the camp.

Now, are you claiming that your "execution" for failing to follow orders is justified?

Is'nt failing to follow orders the same thing as treason, especially if you disobey purposely? ..and especially during a time of war?

..and therefore, in your words "Treason is a Treason, and for Treason there is punishment: DEAHT." ...hence your death is justifiable?

I think your point has several flaws...please enlighten me...

DeepShiznit,

To me it is unjustified to even ask somebody to kill innocents, let alone order somebody to do so..

The rules might say that this guard that declines doing so must be shot.. but that is wrong also.



Do you follow? It is not right to kill civilians. It is just that many of those 5-10k Kurds were terrorists and traitors.

And about that gas attack.. i have see footage of photos of only 20 bodies (20 same bodies..) these included least a one child and a woman..



But i have not seen anything that proves that thousands were killed.