US will invade Iran in '06

Originally posted by BlackThought
What have they done for us as a nation?

Again, can't you say the same for all our other allies?

Let them Fend for themselves.

So if the Palestinians ever get a state, that's what we should do right? Just let them fend for themselves.
We've tried letting our allies fend for themselves. Little thing called WW2. Didn't work.

Do you think Isreal would have survived their wars if it wasn't for our support?
Not that you care....

They have broken many many resolutions and still move into occupied territory.

?
So moving out of their own land that they've given over to the Palestinians who do not have a country yet is moving into occupied territory?
You're going to have to explain this one.

Building an illegal wall.

Illegal according to who?

And if you think the wall is bad now, what do you think will happen if the Palestinians become a country?

They do assinations of a virgining countries leaders.

Just for kicks, why don't you give a few examples. I want to see what you consider a leader...

Liability all around we should drop them like last weeks seafood. Show me why we should keep them because they kill brown skinned people?

You still haven't shown me why we should lose any ally in that region.

Oh and have you seen pictures of people in that region?
Let's see how long it takes you to seperate the Israelis from the palestinians in this picture:


That was by far the stupidest comment yet in this thread...

I would like to hear why we choose to help Israel through thick and thin.

I have my own ideas. I would just like to hear why the US SHOULD support Israel.

I would like to hear why we choose to help Israel through thick and thin.

A very powerful pro-Israel lobby in the US, as well as very strong support from the religious far right, who support the Israelis for religious reasons. See Christian Zionism

It doesn't matter how much they spy on us, sell our technology to the Chinese, etc... there are some to whom supporting Israel outwieghs all other considerations, including the national security of the US itself.

Personally I don't think we should be handing the Israelis billions in defense aid every year, they dont seem to have had a problem defending themselves adequately... then again it's a kind of backdoor defense subsidy for US companies, considering how much of the money comes right back to US defense contractors.

[edit on 1/24/06 by xmotex]

How can you support a country you know so little about?

The internation courts say it is illegal the UN says it is ilegal.

The definition of the land is Occupited land by UN standards.

What do we owe them? really i think We owe France a lot more dealing with the Foundation of this country than we owe Israel. You know they killed a US general to form Israel after WWII
You know they tried to sink an american ship during the 70's.

Why support the lets do them like we did Somolia, or Iraq when the kurds wanted self determination.

Originally posted by BlackThought
How can you support a country you know so little about?

The internation courts say it is illegal the UN says it is ilegal.

Besides issue political (not based on anything legal) nonbinding opinions, what have they done?

The definition of the land is Occupited land by UN standards.

Which land? The state of Isreal or the West Bank and Gaza?

What do we owe them? really i think We owe France a lot more dealing with the Foundation of this country than we owe Israel.

What are you talking about? France is an ally also. Just not one surrounded by people (like you ) who want to see them wiped off the map for no legitimate reason.

You know they killed a US general to form Israel after WWII
You know they tried to sink an american ship during the 70's.

The attack on the ship happened in 1967........during the war......
You have any proof it was deliberate?
More info...

And you're going to have to provide a link about the General being killed.

Why support the lets do them like we did Somolia, or Iraq when the kurds wanted self determination.

Originally posted by BlackThought
Israel is not America get it!! I do not want to support them. You mean lose a warhead like fitting nato planes to carry nuclear arms even though they signed the treaty also.

Apparently you stopped reading my post somewhere in the middle when I said it could very well escalate in to a larger nuclear conflict, which America could be caught in. Or Amerikkka rather. Funny though how you adopt the KKK's hatred, you seemingly share their hatred for jews. Anyone truly standing up for peace and equality will understand that means for ALL, including jews. Also, I really couldn't imagine any great men in history, such as Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandi, etc., promoting equality regarding everybody's right to acquire doomsday weapons....

No I hate no jew. Rasta to some is the 13th tribe of Juda. I just adopted the standing of fending for youself isn't that what you want for all americans. Bootstraps...No social programs and opportunities that have a chance be used to level the paying field. They where trying to kill Ralph Bunche the negoitator for the palistine issue at the begining after WWII the catholic church wanted it to be an international city or international capital. Jews are me I am jew You got it wrong. They do not need our money we need our money. Self interest baby! When Israel is off the table how important is it?

nobelprize.org...

The UN General Assembly has backed a resolution asking the International Court of Justice whether Israel is obliged to tear down its controversial wall.

english.aljazeera.net...

The United States has vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution condemning Israel's controversial West Bank barrier.

news.bbc.co.uk...

On 9 July, 2004, 14 of the 15 justices in the International Court of Justice (ICJ) delivered an "advisory opinion" on Israel's apartheid barrier that accurately reflects the world's growing moral outrage against Israel's determination to push the Palestinians to the wall and beyond

weekly.ahram.org.eg...

Neither the DG nor the inspectors have used the term "non -compliance" regarding the implementation of safeguards in Iran. Therefore the use of the term" non-compliance" in the Beard resolution is a clear deviation from the objactivities and has no legal basis.

www.iaea.org...

This thread seems to have gotten way off track.

Iran?

I just came across this article and thought I'd share it.

Just my two cents on the issue.

Y'all be good!

Anti-war Stance Is Right, Not Left
by Gary Benoit
February 6, 2006
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According to the wisdom of the day, the left is against the war in Iraq while the right supports the war. So why do The John Birch Society and its affiliated magazine THE NEW AMERICAN support the withdrawal of our troops from Iraq? Isn’t that the position of the hard left? (Click here for an online letter to Congress, "Bring Our Soldiers Home From Iraq -- Now!")

In actuality, there are fundamental differences between the left and us regarding the question of war.

Unlike the left, we do not believe any one man should ever be entrusted with the awesome power of deciding when to go to war. It makes no difference if the president is a Republican or a Democrat, a conservative or a liberal. The Constitution assigns to Congress, not the president, the power “to declare war.” If America needs to go to war, Congress should declare it.
www.thenewamerican.com...

Originally posted by BlackThought
Jews are me I am jew You got it wrong.

I wasn't aware you were Rastafarian, I am aware of the Jewish connection.

They do not need our money we need our money. Self interest baby! When Israel is off the table how important is it?

Whether you agree with supporting Israel or not, they currently have nuclear weapons. They also have quite a few enemies many of whom are fueled by a religious mandate in which the ultimate goal is their destruction, the most outspoken being Iran. Needless to say, Israel has an itchy trigger finger. If Iran does obtain nuclear weapons, there will be an instant standoff, and we will have another nuclear powder keg waiting to go off on our fragile planet. And it will likely be the most volatile of them all. Now add that Iran has other enemies, such as Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc., and they will probably want nuclear weapons as well, and now we have even more powder kegs. A nuclear exchange will be a near certainty, and even one limited to the Middle East would have a profoundly devastating impact on the entire world's economy, environment, our lives in general.

Personally, I would like to be able to continue searching for ganja induced wisdom on a nice day. Or be able to spend time with my son, maybe eventually even on a world that is rid of nuclear weapons, instead of witnessing one of mankinds most catastrophic events, if not the end of man all together.

Let's get real. The first step toward peace in the mideast is to say to Israel: lay down your nukes in exchange for a guarantee by the US and/or EU to support you in the dark hour, should it happen.

At least then, Iran would not have any leverage on any kind of arms race crap. I say this not trusting Iran's leadership one iota.

If Israel is not ammenable to our terms, we scale back on the foreign aid. Money talks and BS walks.

Originally posted by BigEasy
Let's get real. The first step toward peace in the mideast is to say to Israel: lay down your nukes in exchange for a guarantee by the US and/or EU to support you in the dark hour, should it happen.

At least then, Iran would not have any leverage on any kind of arms race crap. I say this not trusting Iran's leadership one iota.

If Israel is not ammenable to our terms, we scale back on the foreign aid. Money talks and BS walks.

I agree, Israel should be pressured to disarm, and I'll even go further as to say the entire world should as well. If it were up to me, that issue would be handled parallel to stopping Iran from obtaining nukes. But as more and more states obtain nuclear arms, the chances of ridding the earth of nukes go way down, as the chances of nuclear war go way up. Surely you can recognize that as fact, right?

I'll tell you this: Ronald "Ray-Gun's" ultimate goal was to rid the earth of nuclear weapons. He wanted to put control of nuclear (energy) technology in the hands of the UN soley. Dwight Eisenhower was in the same organization (on that) that Reagan was.

It took me a while to grasp Reagan's thinking on that. But I did. He was truly a great man.

Yeah, I am completely behind what Reagan wanted to accomplish, I would like to see us back on that path. NO man or group of men should have the kind of "god" power to initiate the almost instant destruction of everything.

In theory its good. In reality, tho, its pie in the sky. It just won't happen. There's too much money to be made off war. When you're talkin that kind of budget, you're talkin about dominating. You can't dominate w/out nukes.

Most people don't even know that about Reagan. Nor would they believe it. He did what he did b/c he believed in peace, not b/c he was a warmonger.

If he came back and ran tomorrow, I'd vote for him again.

[edit on 24-01-2004 by BigEasy]

At this point in time, I agree it's pie in the sky. But I think as we continue to evolve, we may reach a point where we realize how wrong nuclear weapons are. That is of course if we don't wipe ourselves out with them first, which we would almost be ensuring if we allow everybody and their mother to get their own red buttons. It's gotta be stopped somewhere before it can ever be reversed, IMO.

there you encounter your problem. we arent evolving. we are the same reckless primitive human beings, just with more advanced science. unfortunately science isnt knowledge nor evolution, science if information. information to make your life easier, but isnt a way of life.
Knowledge without science brings peace. Knowledge with science brings advances like we have never seen. Science without knowledge brings destruction and doom.

excellent post

"You have voted grimreaper797 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month."

As long as human beings are in charge of bombs and red buttons, I don't see us scaling back. Humans don't trust other humans, pure and simple.

I saw this article from Pat Buchanan today and it made as much sense as anything else I've heard on this issue. Pat's the man. I voted for him in the '96 Republican primaries against Bob "yesman" Dole. Pat was the real deal. Oh well.. at least it's nice to say I voted my conscience. Altho, that didn't do much good.

Bush's Dilemma: Iran vs. Israel

by Patrick J. Buchanan
In the test of wills between the West and Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad shows no sign of backing down.
www.antiwar.com...

really i dont see it happening because people have given up trying to. the bombs arent whats holding us back, we are holding us back. we refuse to think and really question because we are so afraid of what we will find. we are so afraid to question ourselves and our being that we rather live without thinking at all. weve given up because we fear what shouldnt be feared.

the bomb isnt the enemy the bomb is just the tool of our current intentions and being. its our expression of our race and where we wish to head. what we desire as a whole...and thats destruction. untill we find peace in ourselves, there will never be peace in this world. world peace is a fairytale til we accomplish it on a personal level. many of us are still greedy, we still have daily conflicts that we cant solve, and still dont understand the basics of our potential. until we can even figure out what knowledge is we cant reach peace. true knowledge is knowing ourselves, the only thing that is definate in our reality is ourselves. knowing ourselves is the key to understanding everything around us. it starts with us, each of us. from you to me, the people on the streets to the rich men in the mansions. thats where world peace starts.

we are capable but without reason and guidence it just isnt going to happen yet. id like to believe, no i have to believe, that its possible because its all i have to look foward to and get up to...thats hope. ignorance is only as bliss to those who are so ignorant they cant see there own downfall coming. we have no knowledge so we have no judgement. it leads us to the deadly path of destruction, which in fact is our current way of life.

so yea to me iran is just another issue, another issue in the bucket. eventually the bucket will collapse or overflow but right now its just 1 more issue we fail to realize is leading to our demise. every violent action we take is just one more step. at our pace every step we take is one closer to the edge of a cliff. just now we are picking the pace up to a jog.

Here is an excellent analysis of the Iran situation.

I fully agree with the assessment. Diplomacy is the only way to go on this. If that sounds weak, so what. One has to know how to pick his fights in order to survive. No matter how big one is.

By the way, I was talking to a friend of mine today (retired Naval officer, flew for NATO for years); I asked him his position on this Iran thing. Unequivocally, he said "diplomacy must work!"

The man knows what he's talking about.

'Bring It On': Why Dr. Ahmadinejad Is Not Worrying

The Iranians are contemplating two developments. First, to create a new oil exchange in March 2006, which will sell Iranian oil for euros. Second, to develop the nation's nuclear technology capabilities, possibly for producing nuclear weapons, but officially for the generation of electricity.

Officially, the Bush Administration is deeply concerned about the second development. I have no doubt that it is deeply concerned in a surrogate sort of way, because politicians in the State of Israel are deeply concerned. They resent the fact that an Islamic country that is a signatory to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (1970) is taking steps that might conceivably lead to a deliberate violation of that treaty – a treaty that the State of Israel never signed, so as not to interfere with the production of hundreds of nuclear weapons.
www.lewrockwell.com...

The question is, are the NeoCons so blinde and ignorant as to fall into the same trap twice? If the answer to that is yes, then we are all in a heap of trouble (from the US to the mideast).