Taiwan warns of China 'Threats' (Yes again)

Am I the only one who stands in awe as we actually hear people who know China and Taiwan talk about it? Gotta love the net. Keep it up guys.

Commuting poverty
Mar 16th 2006 | BEIJING
From The Economist print edition

Poor peasants surround Beijing

“EUROPEAN cities with an African countryside” is how a report published in China this month describes the gap between booming Beijing, the nearby port-city of Tianjin and a “belt of poverty” around them. It is an exaggeration. No Chinese city has western European levels of development, and African-style deprivation is rarely seen in China. Yet the gap is huge and growing. For increasingly vocal critics of China's imbalanced development, it is a particularly alarming example.

In recent years China's leaders have themselves stressed the need to narrow regional imbalances. This was a major theme of the annual ten-day session of China's parliament, the National People's Congress, which ended on March 14th. The 3,000 Communist Party-picked delegates approved a budget that promises more cash for farmers and a new five-year economic plan to create a “virtuous synergy” between the wealthy seaboard, central China and the poor western regions.

Yet criticism of these disparities has also become a way for some to air more general grievances about China's embrace of capitalism. The government recently shelved plans to submit a new property law to the congress after a chorus of opposition, led by a Peking University academic, Gong Xiantian. He argued that the draft, which protected property rights, was un-Marxist and unconstitutional.

Though state-controlled, China's media are adept at pinpointing issues that embarrass officials. One example is the comparison of Beijing, Tianjin and their surrounds which appeared in an annual report on regional economies in China by the Beijing Academy of Social Sciences. One Chinese web portal devoted a special page to reports on the poverty belt, with a headline “so close and yet so far”. A commentary in the Farmers Daily, published by the ministry of agriculture, said the poverty of areas of Hebei Province around Beijing and Tianjin was “astonishing”.

The academy's report echoed the findings of an Asian Development Bank study published last year. It said the belt consisted of 32 counties, mostly to the north and north-west of Beijing and Tianjin, with an impoverished population of 2.7m living in nearly 3,800 villages. Poverty is defined as an annual income of less than 825 yuan ($102). The average urban income in Beijing last year was 17,653 yuan a year. Chen Mengping, one of the report's editors, says many of these villages are in mountainous places whose economies have been hit by a bid to improve the purity of Beijing's water, which they supply. This has involved closing factories, and planting trees instead of crops.

According to the ADB study, these areas represent extremes of poverty in a province that has failed to cash in on the growth of Beijing and Tianjin. Hebei has more officially designated “poor counties” and probably more people living in poverty than any other eastern province, it says (though officials say their numbers have been falling). Hebei's failure to develop more rapidly is in marked contrast with the hinterlands of Shanghai and Shenzhen. Wealth has radiated from these thriving port cities as manufacturing industries have mushroomed around them. Hebei has a bigger state-owned sector than the areas around Shanghai and Shenzhen—no recipe for fast development—and relatively little foreign investment.

Politics is partly to blame. The cities of Beijing and Tianjin enjoy provincial status and the advantages of being the capital city and a major port. Hebei has received fewer favours. Central government assistance in recent years has focused on China's west and the north-eastern rust belt. Some Hebei delegates at the National People' s Congress openly grumbled that their province had not been rewarded for sacrifices it had made for the two cities: providing them with water, and curbing industrial development to keep it clean.

Mod Edit: New External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 2006/3/24 by Hellmutt]

Originally posted by DaFunk13
Am I the only one who stands in awe as we actually hear people who know China and Taiwan talk about it? Gotta love the net. Keep it up guys.

If you want to learn about Taiwan, here are a few links...
Hope it'll help you.

www.leksu.com...
www.taiwandc.org...

www.studentorg.umd.edu...

www.studentorg.umd.edu... ( same site link about history)


academic.reed.edu...

www.samuelou.com...

My my my.....You cant debate the subject so your throwing a smoke screen around the conversation

If you want to talk human rights start a new thread and ill answer it there

Originally posted by DaFunk13
Am I the only one who stands in awe as we actually hear people who know China and Taiwan talk about it? Gotta love the net. Keep it up guys.

Well i know what im talking about but i think hsia is trying to change the subject since he cant even respond to my post. even the bits about taiwanese culture.

But DaFunk13 try this site
China History Forum

The best chinese historical/polictical site on the internet. it attracts look of intelligent people. Quite a few have PhDs in their fields of research

-----------------------

Originally posted by hsia
Commuting poverty
Mar 16th 2006 | BEIJING
From The Economist print edition

In recent years China's leaders have themselves stressed the need to narrow regional imbalances. This was a major theme of the annual ten-day session of China's parliament, the National People's Congress, which ended on March 14th. The 3,000 Communist Party-picked delegates approved a budget that promises more cash for farmers and a new five-year economic plan to create a “virtuous synergy” between the wealthy seaboard, central China and the poor western regions.

Well this article supports my views. There is a gap between rich and poor in every country. If your going to use this as your argument i suggest you chose something better since i can decuke this quite easily

It is measured by seeing how much the top X amount of people own, by itself or in comparison to the lowest X amount. like this

Gap Between Rich and Poor Widening in Troubled Economy

WASHINGTON — Over two decades, the income gap has steadily increased between the richest Americans, who own homes and stocks and got big tax breaks, and those at the middle and bottom of the pay scale, whose paychecks buy less.

The growing disparity is even more pronounced in this recovering economy. Wages are stagnant, and the middle class is shouldering a larger tax burden. Prices for health care, housing, tuition, gas and food have soared.

The wealthiest 20 percent of households in 1973 accounted for 44 percent of total U.S. income, according to the Census Bureau. Their share jumped to 50 percent in 2002, while everyone else's fell. For the bottom fifth, the share dropped from 4.2 percent to 3.5 percent.

Even the democratic americans have a gap between rich and poor. Does that tell us that america is a poor country?. Does that mean that the government is at fault. No, it means its a flourishing capitalist economy. Nothing in relation to how the government is making such things happen. China is not a first world nation where per capita income is developed and is classed as a third world developing country. Are you going to blame chinas government for trying to feed 1,300,000,000+ people. Yeah i used numbers because it just shows the size and scope of the population. in comparison it outnumbers the whole of europe and is 10 times bigger than japan. You dilute their standard of living and you get around the same per capita as chinas current one.

Its easy to say freedom of speech freedom of choice in a small country while in chinas case you have 1.3billion people thinking differently. chinese people while being called chinese people are not all the same. Han chinese can be sub-divided into differnet ethnic and cultrally different groups.( Min nan is one of them). Civil war and the possibilty of china spiliting into different groups is a possibillty. Under a western style demoracy china would be in chaos. Even in a country where the death penalty is given crime is rampant. Child snatching is rampant. everything illegal is done. This is because there are so many people. When you give up to crimmials you give them a free hand to commit offences. That is the reason why china aswell as singapore needs such harsh rule until people get more educated and grow to understand people.

Here is something written by someone called oki. he sums up demoracy beautifully

I want To Settle the issue with democracy, I am a Swede who live in the U.S. so I think I know a thing or 2 about democracy and democratic systems. And let me tell you something, democracy is too much for many developing countries to swallow. There are 3 conditions (High Education Level, Abundant Amount of Resource, And Culturally fit for Democracy) these are conditions that MUST be fulfilled before democracy can show its full potential, or it may backfire. And I will explain why:

1. Educational level: its imperative that a country has to attain a certain educational level before turning into a democracy, the reasons are very simple, you need to know what you are voting for, and what kind of consequences your vote will have, otherwise democracy is simply wild goose chase:
Example 1: lets say that you’re building a Highway through mountain areas up to a villages, the cost incurred in such project can reach as much as $100 000 per Meter of highway completed. Hypothetically, let’s say you ask the people who live on the top of this mountain what would they rather have: 100 000 dollar to each of 'em to put in their own pocket today, or this highway tomorrow? What do you think the answer would be, of cause most people would pick the money. Because they wouldn’t understand the wealth this highway may bring to this village in the LONG RUN -which far exceed what they would get today.

Example 2: a realistic scenario where democracy failed due to the people’s lack of knowledge in the subject. Couple years ago, the Swedes were asked whether or not Sweden should join the Euro currency. Well, this is a rather interesting vote;becuz it's simply put up to satisfy the democratic standard and not to achieve more efficient economy for the country as whole. Since, the macro impact of a new currency is so complex, that even for people like myself (sry i am bragging again)-with 2 years of concentrated international business study on a master level -don’t even have the slightest clue nor understanding of what the impact would be. I sometimes ask myself: how in the bloody hell can the average Swede with merely a high school degree in woodworks even begin to touch, not to mention being apart the decision making. Additionally, to what degree is that decision worth relying on?

2. Secondly, Democracy only works well in country with abundant amount of resource. To make this easy to understand: let’s say hypothetically 5 shipwrecked people are stuck on an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. And there is 20 tons of bread left in the wreckage and you all decide to vote on how to split the bread load. And believe me, the vote on who get how much is not even a problem. However, let’s change the scenarios a bit; Lets say that same 5 shipwrecks got stuck on the same island with only 1 piece of bread. And you again decide to vote on who should get what.. what do you think would happen? Vote cheat? Violence? I bet you my first born that there will be blood spilled during that vote. (the exemple is abit too simplistic but I believe you all got my idea).

3. A country must have the traditional understanding for democracy or a slow adapting process. Not only understand the vote and consequences of voting, but more importantly have respect for the power of democracy and what it truly stands for. Give you a basic idea of what I mean: In the U.S., the Asian ethnic group is the most educated group with generally higher income (which both satisfying my 2 previous conditions). Yet, they are the groups with the lowest voting rate. Reason is very simple: Asians, despite years of exposure to the democratic system, simply do not have the habit of voting nor believe it is their obligation to make decisions…(i can provide supportive links if you doubt my above statement and facts about Asian ethnic groups)... meaning in order for democracy to work, there must be a force of synergy and balance between religion, history and culture as whole.

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[edit on 23-3-2006 by chinawhite]

Even the dalai lama wants to return to china even though he pleaed many times never to go back to a "chained" tibet . Does this mean that tibet is more free..? thats my interuptation

Beijing asked to approve Dalai Lama's visit to China
AFP

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Beijing should approve a request by the Dalai Lama to visit China as it would ease tensions in the Himalayan territory, an envoy of the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader said.

The Dalai Lama said last week he wished to go on a pilgrimage to China and that his envoys had conveyed his request to Beijing during talks last month.

Tashi Wangdi, the Dalai Lama's representative to the Americas, told a Congressional hearing in Washington that while he empathized with the Chinese leaders on the need for caution in dealing with the Tibetan problem, "the proposed visit by His Holiness is a win-win situation.

"The Chinese leaders should have no fear as to what might happen if such a visit is allowed. His Holiness will use the visit to bring about better understanding, harmony and friendship," Wangdi told a hearing of the Congressional Executive Commission on China.

Source

Originally posted by chinawhite

Sorry I had no time to answer, as you can see my prcedent posts were short and mainly links...

Hokklo is the new western name for hokkien. Hokkien is what we real min nan ren overseas call ourselves.

I agree.

And please before you made un-educated asserations about what the fujianese people are whilst denying your connection to them, You should well know that min nan ren are not confinded to fujian but fujians neighbours aswell.

some Taiwanese are chinese ( Fujian, Hakka ( from guangdung or else), or from any part of china), some have some origins from there ( but there culture is Taiwanese (mixed with local and other foreign cultures), some are culture mixed ( different parents ) americans, europeans, etc, some are foreigners ( but Taiwan citizens), some belong to a native ethnical group.

The thing was the communist system of organising the provinces weren't that efficent and didn't group ethnic groups all in one place. You should know your own heritage and you should also know the origin of your people.


You dont even know the basics of chinese culture while you make judgment on others cultures. Even though you live in taiwan its good to know what yoru brothers in fujian are up to. Your lack of knowledge on china is quite astounding

Sorry but I already told you that I am not chinese, it's not my heritage.

Well the taiwanese call themselves that and all of them i know have their origins to either hakka or hokkien. Taiwanese the language is a extended form of min nan(well 99.9% the same). So it would have been safe to assume you speak one of those languages. But if you didn't i would like to know which language and what stance you take up so this disscussion is more understandable on your prespective

Did you hear about Paiwan, Amis,Rukai,... They are Taiwanese, don't forget it.

Pan-Green i presume?

or only someone who likes Taiwan

Well this is about culture isn't it?. Also taiwanese schools are real lousy. 7am - 9pm every day?. come on, they are breeding super lazy people. maybe thats why theres so much gang violence in taiwan. Plus the standarisation of students with all boys having crew cuts and girls tieing their hair back. What is with all these regulations?

It just shows that you don't jnow what youy are talking about...

How is that influcening taiwanese culture because old people speak japanese?. Taiwanese education?. you mean the super long school days. Morals are about the same. I dont see any noticable difference between east asian morals. work hard support the family.

I mean leave your shoes at the door, the way that teachers teach, the discipline rules...

Spanish speaking sailors in taiwan.....Is this your best argument?. Yeah so what?. China probaly has a equal amount of everything taiwan has in each seperate region. doesn't that make it concurrent development of cultures?.china has a lot of russian, koreans, what not. do they influence chinese culture?. Does that make chinese any less distinct or different because sometimes you make it some spanish type food or have some small talk with local sailors. I doubt the majority of taiwanese do get that experience. culture isn't devloped in a lifespan its a on-going devlopment. Sometimes i eat indian food. does this make me culturaly connected somehow to indian. i speak some vietnamese. I am connected to vietnamese culture?

Spanish brought catholiscisme in Taiwan, and Dutch protestantism, I am talking about their influence in everyday culture, but we can make a post just to talk abou that if you want.
And I am not talking about spanish speakers sailors, lol...
I am talking about relationship with south american countries, school exchange, university programs, in agriculture, medecine...

more later...

(Mod edit: fixed a quote tag)

[edit on 2006/4/13 by Hellmutt]

from: google_abcd
Ok, if Taiwanese don't want to be Chinese, the first thing they should do is not to use Chinese language, including oral and characters.

from: Hsia
It's nice, but life is not so easy... First the japanese taught japanese as official language, then KMT (using force) decided to replace it by chinese (mandarin). All this time Taiwanese languages survived ( native, hokklo, hakka) and taiwanese speak at least one of them ( i mean by taiwanese, native and "han", excluding mainlanders who are immigrants). But change it would mean another transition period, all the documentation to rewrite and so on. Anyway, americans or australians speak english and they are separated from english crown, I don't see why the language is a problem.

from: chinawhite
This is quite stupid to refer to chinese are mandarin speakers since the use of mandarin as a common language was only after the communist took over in 1949 when they standardized education. Whilst before that local languages were used and the few educated officals had education for communication purposes.

from: google_abcd
then abandom their chinese culture and invent their own.

from: www.leksu.com...

"Taioan" did not originate from Han language. The Siraya aborigines who dwelled in the vicinity of Tainan called outsiders and visitors "Taian" or "Tayan", and it had been misheard as "Taioan". Han immigrants and Japanese had applied different Han characters and Kanji, which became the name of the island itself. Between the years 1573 and 1620, Ming government began calling the island "Taiwan", and the Dutch also used "Taioan" in their writings.

Pirates and Aborigines

During the period when Western European powers were moving eastward, the Chinese and Japanese pirates known as Wo-k'ou , who had plundered the Chinese southeastern coast, used Taiwan as a base or hideout for geographical reason. When chased by the government forces, these pirates would flee first to Penghu (Pescadores) Islands, and then to Taiwan. Government forces might chase the pirates to Penghu, but would never pursue them to Taiwan. In the sixteenth century, the Ming government (being unfamiliar with Taiwan) regarded Taiwan as a dreadful, barbaric region spread with pestilences. [...]

In the middle of the sixteenth century, there were only a small number of Han immigrants and Malaya-Polynesian aborigines who had dwelt on Taiwan for many thousands of years. Although presently these aborigines have become minority, they were once the major inhabitants spread over the entire island. All the aborigines are Malaya-Polynesian, however, they do not belong to same race. Beside the nine tribes of Atayal, Saisiyat, Tsou, Bunun, Rukai, Paiwan, Ami, Puyuma, Yami, there are Ketagalan, Luilang, Kavalan, Taokas, Pazeh Papora, Babuza, Hoanya, and Siraya, who are commonly called the "flatland aborigines". [...]

These aborigines have their different languages and customs, and constitute unique independent societies. From their different languages, customs and dwellings, one can imagine that they migrated from different places during different periods of time. The flatland aborigines were assimilated by Han settlers through inter-marriage, and are now almost indistinguishable from Han people. Because the aborigines were divided into so many racial groups, they have not been able to establish a united kingdom, and have been overwhelmed by foreign invaders and consequently have become the minority.

from: ludahai
The notion that Taiwan is a part of China is taken as a matter of faith among China’s government and most of its citizens. It is also similarly taken as a matter of faith among the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT), which formerly ruled the islad and still retains a strong presence in local Taiwanese politics. However, rarely is an actual examination taken of the legitimacy and legal veracity of these claims.

The indigenous population of the island is proto-Austronesian peoples who are believed to be the progenitors of the Malayo-Polynesian peoples who have spread through Southeast Asia and as far west as Madagascar and as far east as Hawaii, Easter Island, and perhaps even mainland South America. They had lived in Taiwan in relative isolation, with only limited and infrequent Chinese contacts, as late as the 16th century.

from:Hsia

They already have their own, including old chinese and other asian traditions (origins), dutch, spanish, japanese culture (colonies), american and european culture (immigration and world communication), chinese culture ( KMT and immigration). Taiwanese culture is a mix of it all, that's why they don't belong to china.
Now, think to the culture mixed kid, Paiwan (native) / american ( new immigration:teachers), is he chinese?

from: google_abcd
Taiwanese, including president Chen and all compere , only speak Chinese(mandarin) and some MinNan language(from FuJian,China) on the TV show

from:Hsia
certainly because you don't have cable. And just for info hoklo is fujian, hakka is not and their are lots of native languages. Anyway, MinNan language, not the official language, but "taiwanese" (as taiwanese call it) is spoken at home, at church or temple, in official meetings, on TV ... The fact is that chinese is used only for official reasons and inter ethnics communications and because lots of taiwan languages had no writing. With the romanization of native languages ( hakka and hoklo have a older written form), education, communication and book printing are able in people original culture. It doesn't mean that there is no need for chinese, just that it's an arbitrary language, it could be japanese ( it was before) or english or any other language...

from: www.leksu.com...

Colonial rule by a different race means destructing traditional culture of the ruled, forcing submission politically, and exploiting economically. It would certainly incur resistance from the ruled race. There was no exception in the case of Taiwan ruled by Japan. […]

Taiwanese studying in Japan began in around 1901, gradually increased in number reaching 300 plus in 1915, and in 1922 suddenly increased to more than 2,400. […]
Based on his theory that "Education is like a sword with multi-sided blades", Shinpei Goto was passive in educating the Taiwanese more than necessary. However, as industrial development progressed, it had become necessary to bring up the Taiwanese as modern industrial laborers, minor officials, and backbone technicians. Therefore, the Governor's Office had to look to fully invest in education.
[…]
In 1896, one year after the Japanese occupation, the Governor's Office established "Japanese Language Schools" in Taipei, and "Japanese Language Instructing Houses” in various places of Taiwan. Japanese Language Schools were divided in two sections namely: "Instructor Training" (later became normal school) and "Language Training" that gave secondary education. The Japanese Language Instructing Houses in various places became Public Schools that gave elementary education to Taiwanese children after 1898. In 1899, "Taiwan Medical School" was established, and between then and 1919, Junior High Schools, Girl's High Schools and Vocational Schools had been established one after another. […]

from: ludahai
Japan tried to turn Taiwan into an integral part of the country. Taiwan’s economy and educational system were developed to an extent not seen in other territories occupied by Japan.

from: chinawhite

Ok there mr "taiwanese". I use the word taiwanese vaguely to distinguish me and yourself, tell me what influence the japanese dutch spanish american and european have actually left and what do you do that makes you have any connection with them at all. Modern taiwanese culture which all the asians are fond of here does not even remotely resemble anything you just mentioned.

The dutch were trading there in taiwan almost 300 years ago when its population of mainland chinese formed 4-5% of the population while the actual native taiwanese(ones which have connection to australian aboriginals) formed the bulk of it.
The real large immigration which took place was in 1661 when Zheng Chenggong sailed there with 1000 ships and subsequent fleets formed the bulk of the first taiwanese settlers.

The spanish?. They died out around that time when china closed its port to foriegners. Americans?. And exactly did they influence them?. Europeans?. Very vague but again what did they influence?

from: www.leksu.com...

The Governor's Office established "Japanese Language Schools" in Taipei, and "Japanese Language Instructing Houses” in various places of Taiwan. […]

The Japanese Language Instructing Houses in various places became Public Schools that gave elementary education to Taiwanese children after 1898. […]

In 1899, "Taiwan Medical School" was established, and between then and 1919, Junior High Schools, Girl's High Schools and Vocational Schools had been established one after another. Compared to the education in Ch'ing era, it was like living in quite a different age.
[…]

The Japanese children and students studied in "Elementary Schools" or "Secondary Schools", similar to those in the homeland. Differentiated treatment was a precaution against Taiwanese owing to the theory that "Education is a sword of multi-sided blades".
[…]

Appointment of Civilian Governor and the propulsion of assimilation policy brought remarkable changes to the Taiwanese education with substantial development.

Through the World War I, the war boom blessed both Japan and Taiwan; the industries were lively and national income had been increased. It contributed in improving educational systems and building more schools in Taiwan.

Unification of Taiwan educational system with Japan proper was also promoted.
By 1944, one year before Japan gave up Taiwan, there were: 1,109 Elementary Schools with 932,475 students, 3 Normal Schools with 2,888 students, 117 Vocational Schools with 32,718 students, 22 Girl's High Schools with 13,270 students, 22 Junior High Schools with 15,172 students, 1 Senior High Schools with 563 students, 4 Professional Schools with 1,817 students, and 1 Imperial University with 357 students.

The percentage of school attendance in 1944 was surprisingly as high as 92.5%, even though under the wartime structure, trainings of combat personnel were urgently needed. Compared with educational situation of the colonies of European countries, the education in Taiwan had by far wide spread.

Comparing with the British Malaya, one can see how much importance Japan had laid on Taiwan in education. The Britain entered Malaya in 1786, but only one and half century later in 1948, University of Malay was established. Japan established Taipei Imperial University in 1928, only 33 years after the occupation of Taiwan.

Considering the necessity to equip Elementary, Junior, and High Schools before establishing a University, Japan's posture towards education in Taiwan was greatly different from that of Britain towards Malaya.

At present, Malaya is divided into Malaysia and Singapore independently, and apart from Singapore, Malaysia is in a situation unable to be fully self-sufficient in necessary talents.

Taiwan on the other hand, has produced a Nobel Prize winner in the field of chemistry (Lee Yuan-tet, who after finishing B.A. in National Taiwan University, went to America for further study). In the field of medical science, Taiwan has reached a level comparable to advanced nations in the world.

( To be followed...)

Mabye the US is becoming a threat to China! And what had Tawain got to with America. You don´t see Chinesse troops defending Iran, Cuba, Venezula.

Hsia,

Please refrain from posting bias sources.

Originally posted by chinawhite
Hsia,

Please refrain from posting bias sources.

There is a reference for each source and by the way they are public free web site or newspaper very easy to check...
I don't need propaganda, truth is enough...

I totally don't get it. Each time this type of topic is brought out people start discussing language, food...what next? Where we pee?

Are those things actually the point? Australia, US, Canada, UK all speak English, are they 1 nation?

Pakistan and India food both have a lot of curry, are they 1 nation?

And we all probably pee in the toilet, are we all in 1 nation? Maybe the whole earth should unified under 1 banner.


[edit on 13-4-2006 by twchang]

Originally posted by hsia
There is a reference for each source and by the way they are public free web site or newspaper very easy to check...

The websites are some user created domain. It expresses the owners opinions which are bias. And please dont tell me that is a neatural source

I don't need propaganda, truth is enough...

Well dont refer me to a user created website

Originally posted by twchang
I totally don't get it. Each time this type of topic is brought out people start discussing language, food...what next? Where we pee?

thats what people do when they discuss culture.

Originally posted by chinawhite
thats what people do when they discuss culture.

Culture is not the point. Keeping discussing culture similarities and dissimilarities are pointless.

Beside, food and language are only the surface. Just looking at those can't give you full picture of a culture.

[edit on 14-4-2006 by twchang]

At least, the rest of the world can use the "freedom of speech" when they have something to say... Here is an exemple of what happens when you want to write a blog in China:

ethanzuckerman.com...

So, to the question do we have a different culture? Yes, sir we do.

While the prisoners at guantanamo have it easy hey?

the laws the beijing government makes has nothing to do with culture. Dont side-track this conversation

Originally posted by twchang
Pakistan and India food both have a lot of curry, are they 1 nation?
[edit on 13-4-2006 by twchang]

Actually IMHO they have muuh more in common than you and many are lead to believe. Infact culturally speaking India and Pakistan have more reasons to undergo re-unification than maybe China and Taiwan. But obviously culture doesn't dictate issues of this magnitude. There are histories which cannot be forgotten and sentiments which cannot be suppressed.

[edit on 21-4-2006 by Daedalus3]