Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Serpo is an anagram for poser. Now, isn't that special?

Not really, GradyPhilpott is an anagram for "Doth paltry pig".

What's the point?

Neither proves a thing.

The story's already "swiss cheese" with unfulfilled promises (pics), the 12...no wait.... now 13 members of the crew, etc.

Why harp over coincidences?

[edit on 1/31/06 by redmage]

Regarding Whitley's account of a "Serpico" character....

Wasn't Serpico a cop in "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back"?

all this wonderful work of sidetracking is working. I have forgotten now, did we decide that the crew left with 13 on board and one died in transit, thus making anon's original comment about 2 dying some time later on the planet (which was "confirmed" by two other ufo hotshots) a bit clearer?

because there's something strange about that.

cap'n crunch states this in his log:

"I found only eleven of us."

therefore, 11 made it to eben, 2 died on eben. bringing the number down to 9 members left.

again, per anon's gov't source:
"Seven men and one woman returned. Two died on the alien's home planet. two others decided to remain, according to the returnees. Of the eight that returned, all have died. "

ok, so let's work the math here. 8 came home. 2 died. that's ten. 2 more stayed behind. that's 12 people in total.

that doesn't take into account the cloned guy who died in transit so, let's run this thru with the dead traveller.

12 left, one died in transit, leaving us with 11. 2 died some time later. leaving us with 9 crew members. of the 9 crew members, according to the site, seven men and one woman returned. so 8 crew members came back leaving behind the 2 that wanted to stay on the planet.

let me repeat. 12 left. 3 died 8 returned and 2 stayed behind.

somehow 12 became 13.

clones right?


Anon, can you please tidy this up in chapter 14? I'm sure between clones and "counting people on serpo is different than counting them on earth" will suffice.

(edited to correct the error of 4 staying behind on serpo)


[edit on 31-1-2006 by Crakeur]

1 - A person that is asking questions trying to prove or disprove something based on FACTS is not a BAD person trying to get something from YOU.

2 - A person that is publishing questionable information either to win your faith, to mislead you, or sell you a bill of goods with false and questionable information IS indeed trying to get something from YOU.

Motivation behind either such actions warrants a VERY clear understanding.

Isolated Circumstances

For those who know the story better than I do, and in regard to the question of supplies, why would so much gear and supplies be needed all at once?

What would have prevented a resupply run or two over a proposed ten year period?

Why choose a ten year period in the first place?

Why the need for such a production number when the Serpians could clearly come and go between Earth and Serpo as they pleased?

Why the bloody hell would the "away team" discard their only means of communicating with Earth?

From Serpo.org:
QUESTION: Why didn't our Team use the Eben communication device?
ANONYMOUS: They had it, but it contained only about 500 English words. Not enough to fully communicate. The Team discarded the device early in their stay.

Maybe not enough to "fully communicate", but enough to potentially call for help if needed.

Why the apparently unnecessary isolation of the team under such critical and potentially hazardous conditions? How does this make sense?

Am I missing something obvious?

You are absolutely right, there is nothing obvious in the logic of the Serpo story and this is one of many many many points. The serpo story is filled with so many holes and questions and moving forward at a rate that makes you only ask MORE questions makes you wonder how a story with so many holes in it has any substance to hold at all.

Originally posted by Majic
Isolated Circumstances

For those who know the story better than I do, and in regard to the question of supplies, why would so much gear and supplies be needed all at once?

What would have prevented a resupply run or two over a proposed ten year period?

Why choose a ten year period in the first place?

Why the need for such a production number when the Serpians could clearly come and go between Earth and Serpo as they pleased?

Why the bloody hell would the "away team" discard their only means of communicating with Earth?

From Serpo.org:
QUESTION: Why didn't our Team use the Eben communication device?
ANONYMOUS: They had it, but it contained only about 500 English words. Not enough to fully communicate. The Team discarded the device early in their stay.

Maybe not enough to "fully communicate", but enough to potentially call for help if needed.

Why the apparently unnecessary isolation of the team under such critical and potentially hazardous conditions? How does this make sense?

Am I missing something obvious?

Majic,

I think the Eben communication device was for talking with Ebens not for communicating with Earth.

That's why they discarded it , because they could do about as well or better without it from my understanding.

Promomag ,

Why did you disregard my post about the acronym EBE used in the Oppenheimer-Einstein Draft?

[edit: sp]

[edit on 31-1-2006 by lost_shaman]

Originally posted by promomag
HOAX HOAX HOAX

See this posting on ATS from 2002 from the Forum Moderator telling you why it is a HOAX.

4th Post from the Bottom, BYRD - posted on 13-12-2002 at 09:42 AM

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by RiotComing

Originally posted by promomag
What I'm saying is, if you're going to accept something like EBE as an acronym for Extra-terrestrial Biological Entity as fact, then there should be something to back up that fact.

Do a Google for "SO-1 Classified Army UFO Manual" and locate the pdf for this leaked Majestic 12 document. It's 5.53mb. It mentions EBE here, there and EVERYWHERE. The damn thing is crawling with EBE! A fascinating and illuminating read. An incredible historic document.

[edit on 31-1-2006 by RiotComing]

I'm not so convinced, even if it is a so-called "Super Moderator" who says so. This so-called "Subject Matter Expert" got their info from one man's debunkment on Usenet some 10 years ago - and if you read his analysis, it follows similar lines to the same people attempting to debunk this Serpo story - via the syntax and conventions and language style.. which IMO is not a rock-solid methodology of dismissing the content. Sure, it casts shades of doubt, but doesn't necessarily mean the information is false. Otherwise, it becomes a bit like an old-fashioned witch-burning: "she looks like a witch, therefore she should be burned as a witch" - things aren't always as cut and dried as they seem.

Originally posted by Crakeur

cap'n crunch states this in his log:

"I found only eleven of us."

therefore, 11 made it to eben, 2 died on eben. bringing the number down to 9 members left.

again, per anon's gov't source:
"Seven men and one woman returned. Two died on the alien's home planet. Four others decided to remain, according to the returnees. Of the eight that returned, all have died. "

ok, so let's work the math here. 8 came home. 2 died. that's ten. 4 more stayed behind. that's 14 people in total on a trip that left with 11.

that doesn't take into account the cloned guy who died in transit so, let's run this thru with the dead traveller.

12 left, one died in transit, leaving us with 11. 2 died some time later. leaving us with 9 crew members. of the 9 crew members, according to the site, seven men and one woman returned. so 8 crew members came back leaving behind the 4 that wanted to stay on the planet.

let me repeat. 12 left. 3 died 8 returned and 4 stayed behind.

somehow 12 became 15.

clones right?


Anon, can you please tidy this up in chapter 14? I'm sure between clones and "counting people on serpo is different than counting them on earth" will suffice.

How about we place that part with this:

Post #6: This was a gigantic problem, to say the least. It took our linguist specialists several years to adequately establish.....

Don't miss my latest podcast:


Skeptic Overview 20: SERPO MADNESS!



And with that, this is now officially the longest thread in the history of ATS.

Pallets- I think your trying to make fruit salad with apples and oranges. I drove 18 wheelers for the 2nd Armored Div. during the Vietnam War and we used wooden pallets not aluminum and there were no cargo containers. Even when I drove loads to the airfield for transport it was nothing fancy just your everyday wooden pallet loaded per the loadmaster.
Keep in mind the time frame. Sorry I can't give ya the weights involved that wasn't my job but I do know that according to my SOP everything was by the book. No matter the cargo I hauled the weight limits were strictly adhered to. And I hauled everything from food stuffs to ammo(including tank rounds). Everything was palletised. Hope this helps. I sensed that this was getting a bit afield with trying to compare modern transportation with that utilized in the time frame of the story. Also without knowing the load capacity of the vehicle used any speculation is just that.


Post#11; day #2:I'm not sure just how long we were in the containers. We sat in the chairs and a clear container was placed over us and the chair. We were isolated in this bubble or sphere. We could breath OK and could see out, but we really felt dizzy and confused. I think I fell asleep or fainted. I think this is another day, but my watch says one hour since we sat, but I think it is the next day. (Pardon me, they were containers - G)

Post #11; day 2: Our time instruments are located in our backpacks which are stored in another area of this room. We are still in these spheres but it seems OK. (No these were spheres - G)

How did he look at his watch if the time instruments(why the 2 different terms for timepieces) weren't in the same area?

Read this next sentence slowly and carefullly-
Post #5: Although our team spent over a decade (our time) on Serpo and nearby planets, they did not have a laptop computer to enter all data.

Why mention laptops? Everyone knows they weren't available then. This statement is totally out of place. Unless they mean that the Serponauts should have invented laptops by then.

I am how you say....freaked out- Bigfoot(mythbusters commercial)

Thanks to garyo1954

Originally posted by torbjon
Wanna use double wide pallets? ...now the stacks are only 10 feet high. Still pretty tippy slinky wobbly crazy if you ask me… I could do it. I’m really really good. (Really good) I Could do it… but I wouldn’t want to. One little bump at the wrong place and there goes your load.

rock on
twj

Rock on indeed... Nice analysis, Grizzley Adams.

I took the following photo in Delhi in 1997. Click here
for a large copy. Thought you might get a kick out of it.




However, as enhancedesign has shown us, a 463L military pallet has a capacity of 10,000 lbs.

Originally posted by enhancedesign
Thanks for your work and effort in illustrating your use of standard commercial pallets.

For aircraft transportation, the military uses the 463L pallet which is 88" x 108" and can handle 10,000 lbs on each pallet - well above the 5,000 lbs needed for 16 pallets.

Related links supporting this can be found by Googling "military pallet" or "463L pallet"
Particularly here: www.bcaviation.co.uk...

So, let's revisit the numbers: Sixteen pallets, 90,500 lbs. ==> 5,656.25 lbs. per pallet.

463L = 88" x 108" ==> 9,504 sq. inches, or 66 sq. feet. So, if stacked six feet high, we'd have 396 cubic feet. This would equate to 14.28 lbs. per cubic foot.

If stacked ten feet high, it works out to a little over 8 1/2 lbs. per cubic foot.

A case of 12 C-rations weighs 14Kg (30.8 lbs, source). Now, from photograph here, and the oldguns.net..." target="_blank" class="postlink">description which compares a case of C-rations to a case of beer (in approx. size), it seems 2 cubic feet is a *safe* estimate for the volume of such a box... which equates to approx. 15.4 lbs. per cubic foot, well over the 14.28 lb./cu. ft. average if all sixteen were packed six feet high.

Now, of interest is the required volume required to take 10 years worth of C-rations. After all, Anon states (in Posting Five), "As for food, the team took C-rations, military style. They carefully planned for 10 years."

Let us assume they planned for one ration per day -- after all, one ration was supposed to contain a "full day's worth" of caloric and nutritional intake, was it not?

Ten years worth?

That would be 3,652.5 rations... per team member. As there were twelve team members, and each case held twleve C-rations, that would equate to 3652.5 cases.

If each case does in fact occupy 2 cubic feet of volume, then we're speaking of an immense volume of food -- 7,305 cubic feet. Spread across 16 military pallets, each with a surface area of 66 sq. feet (total 1,056 sq. feet) means each pallet would have to be approx. 7 feet tall with food alone.

However, let's assume volume wasn't an issue. Here's my issue:

3652.5 cases, each at 30.8 lbs., equates to 112,497 lbs. -- well over the 90,500 lbs. Anon states they brought.

Therefore, Anon provided false information with regards to either the gross cargo weight or the amount of food brought by the team.


Interestingly enough, Paul McGovern states:

"The team took enough food for two years and rationed it another eight months, but eventually had to eat the visitor's [Eben's: alien's name] food."

By contrast, two years of food equates to only 730.5 cases -- only 22,499.4 lbs. and 1461 cubic feet -- three 463L's stacked rougly 7 feet high.

So is sixteen pallets enough? Yes.

Did Anon provide false information about how much food the team brought? Yes. Guess we can chalk that up to the "20%" fudge factor, eh?

Reverting back to the volume/weight issue, is 15 lbs./cubic foot a reasonable estimation?

does it mention just how the 2 died? because if I'm not mistaken...clear me up if I'm wrong here.

12 left for serpo. 1 died on the way there. one died on serpo later on.

which would leave 10 members left...2 stayed on serpo and 8 came home.

which would make 12 people....this is how I'm seeing it...


but, I'm not to sure how it showed how the 2 members that died on serpo died...if you count the 2 people who died on serpo with the 2 that stayed on serpo....and with so many typos in the report..this could be minor typo..

cowboys laptop post just blew my mind!


[edit on 31-1-2006 by waffleprime]

Thumbs up cowboy!
There were no laptops in that timeframe!

Way above!

Check the last page

Originally posted by promomag
It's a fake / Hoax.

www.cufon.org...

Originally posted by lost_shaman

Originally posted by promomag
What I'm saying is, if you're going to accept something like EBE as an acronym for Extra-terrestrial Biological Entity as fact, then there should be something to back up that fact.

The first mention of EBE comes from the Oppenheimer-Einstein Draft, June 1947. ( Page 2)

209.132.68.98...

Originally posted by waffleprime
does it mention just how the 2 died? because if I'm not mistaken...clear me up if I'm wrong here.

12 left for serpo. 1 died on the way there. one died on serpo later on.

which would leave 10 members left...2 stayed on serpo and 8 came home.

which would make 12 people....this is how I'm seeing it...


but, I'm not to sure how it showed how the 2 members that died on serpo died...if you count the 2 people who died on serpo with the 2 that stayed on serpo....and with so many typos in the report..this could be minor typo..

Answer to how they died is in:

Paul McGovern, post #1: One doctor and one of the security personnel died three years into their visit. The doctor died of pneumonia and the security guy died of an injury.

Bill said in a post here 308 died of a pulmonary embolism

Did you read the basic points? and the Link?

The Link -
www.virtuallystrange.net...

The Basic Points -

Basic points:

Doesn't follow standard military formatting

Majestic-12, Majectic 12 Group, Majic 12, MJ-12 are not defined and seem to be interchangeable. The military has ONE name and ONE official acronym for services. Not four.

No glossary (standard military practice is to have one)

When acronyms first used, they are not defined (no manual would do this slipshod practice)

Begins with "Chapter 2". One wonders if the hoaxer read many books.

A couple of real howlers to people familiar with military manuals: Para 6c, Chapter 2. Appendix II is said to contain a list of Majectic--12 personnel. Note that nowhere is a clear chain of command and support relationships discussed for the MJ-12 teams (BIG faux pas!!!)

Par 12c, Chapter 3. "down satellites" is listed as one of the cover stories. Since the mission stated in paragraph 12, is a press blackout, telling the press that it's a "downed satellite" will not work. A story from the military that they were recovering a downed satellite in 1954 would have caused HUGE sensation.

"Cover story" does not equal "Press blackout."

The "perimeter" setup is all wrong (see webpage for the discussion of how the military really does it.)

No minimum standards for common military procedures are set (as they would be set in any military manual), no support staffing is given, no chains of command are given.

And I just loved this one: 49 Although the front of the manual apparently has an Army seal, chapter 6 talks about squadrons. Squadrons aren't an Army unit. They're an Air Force unit. ANYone who's been in the military for more than 10 minutes knows that.

Of course, a hoaxer wouldn't be aware of any of that. Further research shows that after these rebuttals were made, another "version" of the "manual" showed up that "corrected" some of the discrepancies (a "revisions" page was suddenly found as well as a "change control" page.)

Look, if you want to believe in Questionable material that's fine, I'm not trying to sell you anything. However, don't expect me or others to Buy anything specified as "legit" if it hasn't been proven to be "legit".

Originally posted by RiotComing
I'm not so convinced, even if it is a so-called "Super Moderator" who says so. This so-called "Subject Matter Expert" got their info from one man's debunkment on Usenet some 10 years ago - and if you read his analysis, it follows similar lines to the same people attempting to debunk this Serpo story - via the syntax and conventions and language style.. which IMO is not a rock-solid methodology of dismissing the content. Sure, it casts shades of doubt, but doesn't necessarily mean the information is false. Otherwise, it becomes a bit like an old-fashioned witch-burning: "she looks like a witch, therefore she should be burned as a witch" - things aren't always as cut and dried as they seem.

thanks for that I remember, now....but, pneumonia could of caused a Pulmonary embolism and PE has the same chest symptoms as pneumonia

these are just facts. I'm not jumping to conclusions.

Read this next sentence slowly and carefullly-
Post #5: Although our team spent over a decade (our time) on Serpo and nearby planets, they did not have a laptop computer to enter all data.

I got the impression that Anon was just saying this to remind people that they had to keep data differently back then (pen and paper). Of course there were no laptops back then. I don't see what the confusion is here.

which makes three dead, bringing the total surviving crew down to 9. 8 came home (7 men and one woman) and 2 stayed on serpo. that's 10 living with 9 alive. clones I guess.

the laptop is a nice find cowboy but it is taken out of context. I agree, it wasn't necessary to say they didn't have them but it was given as an explanation for the gaps in the data.

I do like, above that comment in the same post, stating that Carl Sagan worked on the data and accepted it. We should contact and to verify and oh wait, that's right.... he's dead.