Catholic Church bans gay priests

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
But if a man must be celibate to become a deacon, how does that work for married men who become deacons? They have to have separate bedroom from their wives during their studies for three years? :shk:
Or, does the Church have different rules for different people? For example, do straight men have to swear off women for three years?

I don't think she's coming back...

But the reason a married person is allowed to be a deacon is because (according to the Church) sex is fine as long as a person is married. It's not sex, per se, that is the nasty culprit, it's sex outside of marriage. Since gay people can't marry, they can't have sex at all.

You can see what problems would be created within the Catholic Church if the government allowed gay people to marry! Goodness me! Good thing the Church has the government in its back pocket to prevent it from dealing with gay people and their nasty, dirty rubbing.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm still waiting for the links you promised, but you just
kinda went away... I think I get the message.

I 'just kinda went away' because I have a life to live
off the computer - a house to take care of, a daughter
to raise, school books that I have to study ...
so I doubt you 'got the message'.

I HAVE been reading your links. So your comments that
I wasn't ... are wrong.

I know I have read the stats that up to 33% of pedophiles
are homosexual. They were probably posted in one of the
subscribe only journals at the site I posted. (I forgot you
have to subscribe). I'll see if I can run through them and
post the information. This takes time. In the mean time,
as I look through the psychology journals, you can read this -
www.familyresearchinst.org...

As for your information... I mostly agree with it. Here's more -
psychology.ucdavis.edu...

I admit this is a pro-homosexual site, but it does quote one
of the reports that I'm referring to. It knocks it down (of course
because it doesn't like what it says), but this site does a good
job of explaining the difference between pedophilia and
child molestation, etc....

The information actually answered my question earlier - the pedophile
DOES NOT have to act in order to be labeled a pedophile. I wasn't
sure if the actual act had to take place to be labeled a pedophile.
It doesn't.

Pedophilia and child molestation are used in a variety of ways, even by
professionals. Pedophilia usually refers to an adult psychosexual disorder
characterized by a preference for prepubescent children as sexual
partners; this preference may or may not be acted upon. The term
hebephilia is sometimes used to describe adult sexual attractions to
adolescents and children who have reached puberty.

Whereas pedophilia and hebephilia refer to psychological propensities,
child molestation and child sexual abuse are used to describe actual
sexual contact between an adult and someone who has not reached the
legal age of consent. In this context, someone who has not reached the
age of consent is referred to as a child, even though he or she may be a
teenager.

Although the terms are not always used consistently, it is useful to
distinguish between pedophiles/hebephiles and child molesters/abusers.
Pedophilia and hebephilia are diagnostic labels. Not all pedophiles and
hebephiles actually molest children; an adult can be attracted to children
or adolescents without ever actually engaging in sexual contact with
them.

[edit on 12/2/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't think she's coming back...

Oh come on BH .... there is a life off the computer boards,
and I have one. Sorry my end of the conversation isn't
all enraptured as yours is ... but hey ... when my
asthmatic daughter needs attention, she gets it and
you get dropped. That's just the way it is. I'm a mom
first.

Originally posted by yeahright
How many knew that there are in fact married Catholic priests?

Me. Most Catholics should know this. There are some priests
who are married. They have come in from other faiths already
married and the Holy See has accepted them.

But marriage won't 'cure' pedophiles.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
NO, I didn't answer my own question

Sorry. Thought you did. Looked like it to me.

if a man must be celibate to become a deacon,
how does that work for married men who become deacons?

They don't have to be celebate to become a deacon.
If they are married when they become a deacon then they
don't have to be celebate. They are only required to be
celebate if they are not married.

does the Church have different rules for different people?

That's entirely possible. I'm not an expert on all the rules.
The rules vary between each group. What is expected of
Carmelites is different than what is expected of Franciscans
and those are all different than what is expected of parish priests.

It's like American politics. The states have rights and rules they
live by (just like the religious orders of Carmelites, Dominicans, etc.).
Then there are then HIGHER federal rules that all have to go by
(just like the rules issued by Rome).

do straight men have to swear off women for three years?

Technically, ALL unmarried men have to swear off sex all the time.
I don't know if there is a special document that has been issued to
restate that.

Allowing priests to marry, returning to an earlier time on the
Church, would allow many married men to acknlowledge their
potential vocations.

There are also earlier times in the church when priests were not
allowed to be married. Married/single priests is not a rule set in
stone. It is a discipline that can be changed as the Holy See sees
fit. If it decides that it is good for the church to allow married priests,
then it will do so.

'Acknowledging potential vocations'. That's excellent. EDUCATION
as to what the priesthood really is would do this. Unfortunately
the Catholic Church is watering down it's teaching and people no
longer understand what the priesthood is. If they were educated
on what it is, then they would be more inclined to answer the call
to the priesthood. Allowing priests to marry may make more priests,
but it wouldn't answer the pedophilia problem. Also, as I have said,
I wouldn't want to be on my death bed needing confession and
last rites, only to find the priest can't be reached because his
priorities are split and he's at his kids baseball game or whatever.

The Church needs to clean house and get with it.
Address the pedophile problem, now.

That's what it thinks it's doing. It will take some time for them
to figure this out. The problems is vast and deep. It won't happen
overnight.

Catholics need to think for themselves,
not just take what the Church says as gospel.

That's a matter of theology. The what the Catholic Church
declares ex-cathreda IS gospel. That's part of the Catholic
faith. To do otherwise would make them protestants.

Perhaps that's what many of the Catholic Church critics
want in the end .... to make 'em all protestants?



[edit on 30-11-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

[edit on 12/2/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I'll see if I can run through them and post the information.

Please don't bother for my sake. No amount of anti-homosexual propaganda will change my mind about the idea that homosexuals are more inclined than straight men to molest children. Nothing. I know better.

The information actually answered my question earlier - the pedophile
DOES NOT have to act in order to be labeled a pedophile. I wasn't
sure if the actual act had to take place to be labeled a pedophile.
It doesn't.

Yes, I have already explained this... twice.

I apologize for my comments about you not coming back. I can be a real bitch sometimes.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
But the reason a married person is allowed to be a deacon is because (according to the Church) sex is fine as long as a person is married. It's not sex, per se, that is the nasty culprit, it's sex outside of marriage. Since gay people can't marry, they can't have sex at all.

Maybe I asked the wrong question. So, I 'll give an example.
Let's a Catholic man is married, His wife either dies of he receives and official papal annulment.
Does he have to wait three years from his last matrimonial sexual encounter to apply to the deaconite?
Or, is this 3-year thing only for gay men?

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Well, Im not sure what to make of this. The Catholic Church has banned actively-gay men from the priesthood.

personally, the decision doesnt bother me. if the bible says that homosexuality is wrong, and the church wants to follow that, then thats thier problem.

as for the whole actively gay, sexual active straight, pedophile thing, give me a break. alot of priest that respresent the church are doing things they shouldn't, whether knowingly or not. i had a priest tell me that god wanted me to have sex with him. its all bull.

whether you formally ban something or not makes small difference, what the church needs to do is improve thier supervision of priests and take complaints from the public more seriously instead of telling them "oh im sure he would never do that"

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
How does the Church discrimiate between a married man who becomes a
deacon and a man who becomes a deaon on his way to the priesthood?

You just answered your question.

NO, I didn't answer my own question and I know that about the deaconate. But if a man must be celibate to become a deacon, how does that work for married men who become deacons? They have to have separate bedroom from their wives during their studies for three years?

There are two types the deacons, permanent and transitional. A transitional deacon is what a person is ordained before they are ordained a priest. A permanent deacon is one who is ordained with the intention of staying as a deacon. A permanent deacone can be married, but only before they are ordained. If one chooses to become a permanet deacon but is not married, they may not marry once they have become a permanent deacon. The permanent deaconate was re-established in the 1960s or 1970s, but it had been around for long time before. There is actually a large resurgence of married men joining the ranks of the permant deaconate nowdays.