Is Christianity the Edited Religion of Angels?

I had an interesting debate with some I know who's very interested in all things metaphysical. A few things got me thinking about an interesting angle on Angels.

To explain this properly, I'll have to walk through a few steps here. Since I'm going to have to gloss over a lot, just hang on for the ride if you don't know what I'm talking about.

First off, there's the belief in "energy plane". This is a dimension undivided from our own. The source of all things truly "magical". Our souls are made up of that energy that temporarily inhabits a living brain. Belief in that energy plan gives you the ability to tap it. The way you chose to believe in it determines how and what you can tap. In essence, you manipulate that plane by the way you perceive it.

Then there's the belief in beings formed on the energy plane. In a nutshell, these are discorpeal beings that may or may not have the ability to manifest themselves or various abilities. These can be either formed by or only seen through human perception, meaning that we either create them with our beliefs OR we can only see them if we allow ourselves to believe. I take no side on the argument as to which you could call "correct". It's very chicken and eggish. Regardless, we can assume that Angels are one of these.

Most Angels predate the "bible". Many names, characters, and avatars from Sumerian, Islamic, and Babylonian writings were adopted. So, Angels predate Christianity.

Now here's the issue:
Given that belief/perception is power and that angels exist, would it not make sense that beings of this sort would attempt to manipulate us into giving them power through our beliefs? Would they not strive to keep their base alive and well empowered? Could their beliefs effect us? Did THEY make up the Christian God and did they dictate it to us?

An interesting spin on this is that it supports the theory that Christ was an avatar of Humanity. Truly a human son of the energy plane.
Yes, that's a big jump, but hang on.


In the Old Testament you can see Angelic manipulation running rampant. They were vengeful and strict. They destroyed cities, caused plagues, and committed mass genocide. The word of "god" as they dictated it was LAW. Sounds like slavery to me.

Then came this ultra-powerful being born as a man. The bible doesn't tell us a lot about the interactions between Christ and Angels, but some of it seems rather rocky. Lucifer tries to tempt him, but so does Micheal. He refuses BOTH sides and stays his path. His message, broken down, is of individualistic responsibility. To Paraphrase: "Believe in a Good God, but empower yourself by virtue of your value, faith, and own good actions". He doesn't tell people to believe in Angels or that the God they've been taught to believe in needs to be bowed to.

This is very contrary to the previous attitude of fear and submission. It takes power away from Angels and places it in the hands of man. Suddenly, we are placed "first, above all else". The Angels themselves would have to work like crazy to avoid losing the attention of man. They would have to re-define themselves in a new way or be faced with being forgotten or attacked outright. So they, through influencing mankind, edit the record. They put a little spin on things to make Christ the son of their god instead if a pure representation of mankind.

Since then, they've been much better behaved. Seems that Christ may very well have overthrown the rule of Angels. Now they are our servants. Which is true from the Christian point of view since if they are the servants of god and we are first above all, logic dictates that they serve us... but people forget that, so it's easy to lose reign on them.

That's all I got for you at the moment.
Discussion?

[edit on 29-11-2005 by BitRaiser]

Interesting subject matter. Nice thread!

This may be an oversimplification of a rather delicate subject, but:

Aren't all messages we have recieved delivered by messengers?

We may be 'winning' the battle against God's messengers (that warn us not to trust Satan's lies) but that's only because we've been sucked in by messages transmitted to us by the third of the angels that followed Lucifar/Satan in the first great war that all but destroyed the world before God recreated it to be inhabited by man.

This 'little' detail also gets overlooked by people who say The Bible is wrong because the world is older than it says. The Bible tells of the creation and recreation but in the opposite order.

Esoteric Teacher, very true.

All information is effected by the medium through with it passes. However, my point is that we have no way of telling that this message was sent by "He who is I am". How do we know that if Angels exist, that they aren't either futzing with that message directly and intentionally (they are capable of sin or they wouldn't fall) OR that they made the whole thing up in the first place!

This supposition is backed up by the inclusion of the Metatron Aka, the voice of God. Acording to biblical referance, Metatron speaks on behalf of god because "His" voice it too powerful for mortals to withstand. This is a non-sequater, however. This is stating that there is a task that is impossible for god to preform and in direct violation with the nature of being "god".

suzy ryan, part of what I'm implying here is that how do we know which side is "right"?

The winners of the war always write the history books. I've heard it theorised that part of Lucifer's sin was in standing up for Man's free will. That Lucifer loved us more than the other angles and could not abide their tyrany over us. That it was Lucifer's inflaunce that gave man free will is docturen. He incouraged us to take our first steps towards self-actualization. The result was the expulshion from paradice and thousands of years of torment at the hands of the "holy" Angels.

I know this is a bit much to suggest, but can you see how the application of revisional history could have you fooled into seeing black as white?
Look at the track record of the Church. Would you say that the persicution of all non-christians, the inquesition, the Crusades, the Witch Trials, and the Bush Administration are really the works of a kind and loving God? Who's church is that really? Ours? Theirs? His?

Disecting the bible is like watching CNN. You have to be very careful of what information you choose to believe.


[edit on 29-11-2005 by BitRaiser]

every few 1000 years there is a power struggle amongst the entities, some call gods/ess's, some call angels.. the xian god being the 'top' angel.. per say.. all have their legions of warriors, caregivers for the lesser beings of which their rule is subject over.. (hence various religions every few 1000 years eh?) we are due for a new struggle. the messages we get are from various factions up there.. trying to get us to side.. thus changing the balance of power 'above' and assisting in the overthrow of the current 'power that be' (the xian god)

not all 'angels' with messages are part of the xian's god's legions either. most are, as they have the most unrestricted access to us.

the main thing to remember about these messengers or angels as it pleases most to call them, is that they are NOT human, and do not think, feel, exist in the same structures as we do.

"god" as it were, is not all that 'they' try to make it out to be, as with anything there are limits.. he just hold the reigns per say at this point in time.. and does his best to continue his consolidation of power.

but all energies have free will, be it in caporal human form, or non-caporal (angel/god's) form.. and thus.. only through agreement of 'what IS' and coercion of the 'facts' to be what they wish for us to believe is this power base possible.

the catholic church is a prefect caporal example of what happens above in the ether realms.

we are presented with Their version of the Truth.. not the absolute truth as IS.. as Truth is about perception and decimation of that perception.

There is also the aspect that ‘god’ would not wish to have his ‘subject’s’ hear his voice, as then we would KNOW him.. and the truth of him, to be less then what he has been created into for us to worship him.

God’s own message is not that there are no other Gods, but that he is too jealous to allow any to stand above him.. he wants absolute power and will accept no less from those that choose to follow his way. But he is unable to stop us from knowing them, from seeing them.. though he tries hard to make it so they can not access us..

Angels and god are not infallible.. that has been proven time and again.. they would just wish us not to see it. They gloss it over as they write their history.. the church has exerted parts of their messiah’s life in order to seem better and more in line with the control they wish to have.. the information provided on Jesus to the masses and the lacking of information there in – is no different then that on ‘god’.

Also in the bible.. as god himself supposedly spoke.. he admits to being a jealous god, of being hard and quick to anger & retribution.. not a gentile loving sucker for all kind of Being.

And as he allows for humans the fallacy of free will and mistakes, he also allows this of the other beings within his kingdom. How else are they to evolve? They can choose how to affect themselves in their service to him, some will turn against him, others will hold strong.. they are in effect not to different then humans.. we were after all “made in their image” with both the good and the bad included by his own admittance.

As to the original post, I do not believe that the entities created ‘god’ but they have placed their own perceptions and opinions into what information they give us to understand ‘him’ – as when one can not see/know the truth of who/what he is.. then we can’t fully ever move against him eh??

I have enjoyed reading this. It is from 2005 but I enjoy reading the old stuff...

I feel there is a lot of truth to this.

We know from the Bible the Watchers were cast out of heaven.

The Nephilim, I refer to them as hybrids and the Watchers have created such a force, the rebellion has been very successful thanks to Jesus Christ, Buddha etc. The Watchers created all religions and this has not only redeemed them, it also gave them the opportunity to prove themselves... whoever can overcome.

One of the excerpts from the NT actually states 'No one can get to The Father except through me'... that is a very powerful concept. What that has done is give the Son of God, an Angel/Man hybrid the power as he is the only one worthy to open the seal

The Angels are the Sons of God. The Nephilim = hybrids/offspring. The Angels who fell because of their lust for humans will rise soon enough and sit with the Son of God, which just happens to be the hybrid son of an Angel/Human because 'all are redeemed through Christ'...

We have a new species

Ok, Angel (which just happens to be the Son of God) is out watching and keeping an eye on things and then he sees this woman and well can't help himself. He goes back (later) to his Dad and says 'sorry, couldn't resist, um and now the woman is going to have a baby. Dad says, "this is the last time you go out watching. In fact, you are going to stay here with me until I figure this out"...

The Angel is grounded but can't help himself cos he is in love with this woman and sneaks out to see her, when he tries to go back, Dad had "locked the gate" and said "only when he realises just what a bloody big mess he has caused, can he come back and sort this hybrid mess out!"

Until then, let him suffer.












[edit on 11-8-2007 by Thurisaz]

I'm surprised to see that this thread got bumped. I expected it to be written off long ago.

Interestingly, I brought this idea up will chatting with a Lucifarian friend of mine fairly recently. Since not many folks are familiar with Lucifarianism (there aren't many of them and for obvious reasons, they don't talk about their religion much), I'll attempt to sum up his core beliefs;

Basically, the idea is that Lucifer felt that Man could not be a complete creation without free will. God said that free will in humanity would lead to "hell". Total break down of order. Chaos. Sin. All sorts of things that really have become "Human nature". Further, in order to give Man free will would take a significant amount of spiritual energy. It would mean that Lucifer would have to become part of the species. He felt that it was important enough to make that sacrifice. Thus, Lucifer was cast "into hell until the end of days" by becoming in-dividable for humanity. This is the basis for the assertion that while God resides in all of us, so does Lucifer.

You can see why Lucifarians aren't too keen on talking about their beliefs...
Yes, they effectively worship Lucifer, but don't believe that he is "the devil". Further, he believes that Satan and Lucifer are two separate entities. Satan may or may not have been created at the same time that Lucifer "fell", but things are a little murky there.

This brings me to why my friend was practically jumping up and down with excitement when I described the theory I originally posted above. It explains (to him) why and how Lucifer went from being "free will incarnate" to "the devil". He was essentially victimized by a smear campaign by the other Angels.

I should note that none of this is really reflective of my own beliefs. I'm not Christian. I'm not Lucifarian. I'm essentially an Agnostic with Pagan/Neo-Druidic leanings who's interested in comparative mythology.

This is an academic subject to me, so please don't freak out and call me a "Satanist"!

Think of it this way, if you create a baby and watched it, would you want to give
them free will? People or "friends" will manipulate him or her to things that are
not right. That is probably why God did not want us to have free will. With free
will, look where we ended up, genocides, fighting for greed, oil, more land, we
look down up on others, and many many other stuff. Can you blame God?
If Lucifer sacrificed his position in heaven for us to have free will then he should
have been kicked out. If your child's friend influenced your child to do something bad, would you not tell your child to make no more contact?
As a good parent I would tell my child to stop hanging around with that friend.

My 2 cents.

You make a good point, but the counter note is that we could be so much more if we only got our S:censored:t together.

Without free will, we'd be nothing more than the wind or the rain. Simply facts of existence.

Is it wrong to risk a fall in order to pursue greatness?
Is it the fault of the engine if the car runs out of gas?

In the Lucifarian view, we have no right to blame God or Lucifer. Everything we've done, we've done to and for ourselves.

Maybe we're the demon.
Maybe God blames us.