Should Christian's Keep Kosher According to Jewish Law

be careful with that kaballah stuff. men have been known to go crazy after learning the deeper secrets of hashem. its best to wait until your married dude.

Originally posted by scienceguy94
Does God change?
Does God change his laws?
If so then why would God break agreements?

God meant for the Old Covenant to pave the way for the New. The Old Covenant laws were supposed to foreshadow Christ. Once Christ came and died, there was an "upgrade" if you will.

Stealing, lying, adultery, etc., are still wrong.

Originally posted by scienceguy94
You are incorrect to assume that jesus didn't adhere to the oral law

Go read Matt chapter 5-7...

Count the times HE says
"you have heard it said...
...but I tell you"

Read the gospels...

Count the times HE talks about the traditions of men that make void the commands of God

You have to understand that in his day the oral law was still the oral law and was not written down.

Yea, I'm aware.
The "Oral Torah" is NOT Torah.
The "Oral Torah" is demonic traditions of men; Gemarra and Mishna make up the Talmud...

I have to ask you when jesus admonishes do not make your phalactories wide what does that mean to you?
Are you saying that ritual slaughtering is man made?
Why didn't jesus say don't make your phalactories into triangles are dododecahedrons and did you know that the talmud says to annoint a king he must be dipped in the river who in the world was baptised in the jordan?

You don’t seem to be aware of the fact that the so-called “Oral Torah” is NOT Torah!!!
YAHSHUA (Jesus) kept the TORAH perfectly!! Sin is the transgression of the TORAH!!

Hello YAHSHUA healed people on the Shabbat and according to the Oral demonic traditions of men this was “unlawful”.
Well, it was NOT unlawful!! They had a fine way of making the commands of God null and void with their demonic traditions!!

Matthew15:5-9

6[...]you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7Youhypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8" 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.

YAHVEH spoke the TORAH to Moses and Moses wrote it down!!

There was NO “Oral Torah” because
if you read 2 Kings 22-23 you can clearly see that they didn’t even know about the PASSOVER Feast.
*EDIT*in c22 they found the books of the Law ([Written] TORAH) that had been lost

How the heck is anyone going to say that “Oral Torah” was given to Moses and passed on. NONSENSE!!


[edit on 17-11-2005 by seawater999]

If jews were so demonic then why have the jewish people survived countless centuries of persecutions, exiles and holocausts??
In the same spirit why have the the worst bloodshedding been done in the name of christ?? who is the more evil?
Id rather go to hell then be in company of the likes of your kind.

If jews were so demonic then why have the jewish people survived countless centuries of persecutions, exiles and holocausts??

I did NOT say Jewish PEOPLE were themselves demonic. I said that the Talmud is the traditions of man and should NOT be equated to the TORAH that IS the Word of God!

In the same spirit why have the the worst bloodshedding been done in the name of christ?? who is the more evil?

what does more damage to the Kingdom of God? Satan disguising himself as an angel of light? or going around with his horns exposed and a pitchfork?

my point: this is one of the main reasons Jesus had problems with the Pharisees. HE said:

Matthew15:
7Youhypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8" 'These people HONOR ME WITH THEIR LIPS, but their hearts are FAR from me.
9They worship me in VAIN; their teachings are but rules taught by men.

Id rather go to hell then be in company of the likes of your kind.

If this is how you feel. Okay. I'm not going to argue with you. It would be a shame if you made a wrong judgement about God based on your interactions with another human ...instead of just seeking God HIMSELF to see what HE is all about.

Do you realize that without Jesus Christ, NO one would have eternal life (Jn 17:3 which is to KNOW God)?
The bible says the wrath of God abides ON everyone.
So, you see. If I go to hell it is because of my sin. straight-up.
If I get eternal life (which starts now, not when I die) it is because I believed in the name of the Son of God.
Meaning: I've repented. been filled with the Holy Spirit. and walk in step with HIM
>>the Blood of Jesus will justify me in God's sight
>>and the Holy Spirit's anointing will give me the power to be pleasing to God!

John 3:17 For God did

not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,

but to save the world through him.
18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe

stands condemned already

because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict:

Light has come into the world,
but men loved darkness instead of light
because their deeds were evil.

20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for
fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21But whoever lives by the truth

comes into the light,

so that it may be seen plainly that
what he has done has been done through God."

This passage if taken in context, the entire chapter 2 of col, clearly is talking about how we are free from the regulations that are placed upon us man.

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[edit on 17-11-2005 by kinglizard]

This verse in acts appears to mean that all food is Kosher, but to find the meaning of Scripture using other Scipture. For example: Read until you get to verse 29, but focus on 27-29

let me know what you think


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[edit on 17-11-2005 by kinglizard]

You cannot prove that the 613 comandments are a foreshadowing without the new testament. END OF ARGUMENT!

Originally posted by frayed1
In a religion course that I took in college, the professor argued there was no longer any need to follow the Kosher restrictions. He based that on his belief that the rules had originated as health regulations.

You professor is slightly mistaken, Take a look at Leviticus 11. Here G-d is telling His people not to eat unclean animals, why? because they will make a Jew unclean. A Jew can't come before the L-rd of L-rds unless his mind and body are clean. This is why the L-rd gave His people these commandments, not because He wanted to regulate sanitary laws. it was just Awsome how G-d through His divine will also allowed them to eat healthy foods at the same time. don't forget science was not as nearly understood as it is today. these people obeyed G-d simply because He told them to.



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[edit on 17-11-2005 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by Amethyst
The Old Testament laws merely foreshadowed Christ's first coming. Those laws were made obsolete the minute Christ died on the tree (even says tree and not cross in the NT).

No your wrong Romans 14:5 must be examined in its true context.

5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

this is talking about doing everything for G-d, not abstaining from the sabbath.





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[edit on 17-11-2005 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by dAlen
I agree with one of the above posters.
There may have been (and still be) reason health wise to observe a type of "Kosher" diet for example.

Sorry my friend but you are a full blown fruit cake if you trully believe this and should seek some help from your local rabbi A.S.A.P.

[edit on 17-11-2005 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by dAlen
Since jews are special we have more commandments to keep. if your mother is jewish then you have to keep the commandments. and one of them is avoiding idolatry.

For the most part you have this right, but don't for get Paul, himself, says

Roman 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Jews are special in the Old and New Covenants. The only diference being that in the New the Gentiles can share in G-d's perfect and eternal love.




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[edit on 17-11-2005 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by dAlen
Are you familiar with the concept of Reincarnation within Judaism?
(no Im not talking about some fringe of Judaism, not to many years ago it was hard to find a rabbi who didnt believe this. Now its pretty much stuck with our chassidic brothers/sisters, and they are suprised when another Jew knows about this.)

Where is the Scriptural proof? You may make claims, but only those supported can be true. Or, I guess I should also say that Paul spoke of Allah as the true god too.(Which he never did.)



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[edit on 17-11-2005 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by Amethyst
God meant for the Old Covenant to pave the way for the New. The Old Covenant laws were supposed to foreshadow Christ. Once Christ came and died, there was an "upgrade" if you will.

Stealing, lying, adultery, etc., are still wrong.

You must back this up. Please don't reply unless you have solid proof to support your opinions.


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[edit on 17-11-2005 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by Valhall
The great argument that took place between Paul and Peter was over this very topic. Peter felt that the Jewish laws, cermonies, holy days and rituals should be mandated to the new christians.

Are You refering to Acts 15, If so,

Acts 15:1-22 1Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." 2This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the brothers very glad. 4When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them. 5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses." 6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." 12The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. 14Simon[a] has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written: 16" 'After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it, 17that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'18that have been known for ages. 19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath." 22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers.

i'll have to explain later, sorry g2g




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[edit on 17-11-2005 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by Bakerstone18

Originally posted by Amethyst
So we're not required to keep one day out of seven (Romans 14:5).

No your wrong Romans 14:5 must be examined in its true context.

I just did this in the other thread you started:

Paul is not talking about the Law in anyway. He talks about this thing with vegetables, which has nothing to do with the Law. There is NOTHING in the Law that prohibits ppl from eating meat (though it does say SOME [but NOT all] meats are unclean). When I read it, it looks like Paul is talking about food sacrificed to idols. This was a problem for the ppl @ Corinth also ( 1 Cor 10: 14-33).
The bible says let everything be established w/ 2 or 3 witnesses.
If you read 1 Cor 10:25 it talks about food in the meat market. Anyway, in these pagan cities often meat or wine would be offered to false gods on certian days etc...
Okay, so Paul basically comes to the same conclusion in both Romans and Corinthians about this:
He basically says that the believer has freedom to eat meat. But, 1 Cor 10:21 we should not put up a stumbling block for anyone Jew, Gentile of member of the Church (those weak in the faith [Rom 14: 13, 20-21] who do not think it is okay to eat meat sacrificed to idols).
Well. Don't take my word for it. Read the scriptures yourself; (I'm sure you will). See if the Holy Spirit shows you something.

So, basically Paul was asying mature believers have the freedom to eat meat sacrificed to idols (1 Cor 10:21), but if its a problem for another brother who is weaker in faith...don't do it.
Or if you are around an unbeliever...don't do it...because he might think you believe in the false god the meat was offered to etc.

Good Evening,

A friendly heads-up to everyone in this thread. Please only quote the necessary text of another member necessary to make your point (up to 4 lines of text), any more and its considered a "Big Quote" and can result in a warning from a moderator.

Thank you all for understanding and complying.

The book of Galatians is a really good read concerning this subject.

Galatians 3:24-25--Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 4:9-11--But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 5:14--For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

You do not need to keep kosher according to scripture. You are no longer under the law.

However...

You are better off , health wise, for doing it. The food laws given to Moses have turned to have alot of advantages concerning health.