Resurected after 11 yrs,

That's an excellent idea , mage, how's a friendly debate sound to you? Maybe our EMT-P's are trained with something like that, but my certification doesn't cover it. So since I don't know everything, I can't claim this to be 100% false, but yes, I'll ask our department's EMS director, and see what she has to say.

Amethyzt///

helen, would you mind providing a link to that? or at least the link to the other thread you refer to? i'd be interested in reading whatever article provided that info... thanks!

HERE

AND HERE

"The Miracle in Syria" Resurrected from the dead

Hope that helps!
helen

thank you helen!!!

i read all of the first and third links, the second had so many links i couldn't dig into it at this hour...
but after reading the third... what's a 'panagia'??? i'm having trouble finding a solid definition of it! i found sites which referred to it as a greek word for 'all-holy' or 'God-bearing'.... eh, it's almost three a.m. and something i would prefer to look at in the morning... thank you for the links, i will research this more and see if there is anything more 'official' that can be found on it!!

the first link was very long, and written in an antiquated way... but having been 'at death's door' myself in the past, i really identified with the disassociation he recounted with his own body and the lack of feeling he felt towards it.

i enjoyed the links, i do appreciate you providing them...

@jburns & redmage-
wooohoooo! how fun!! somebody u2u me and direct me to the thread if ya'll agree to this!! i was half joking (but not) LOL... can't wait!

~am

I'd love to do this, just waiting on Mage to agree, and then I'm sure we'll have to clear it with someone.

Sorry it took so long to reply, thanksgiving festivities have kept me busy the last couple days.

While I agree this could have made a great thread/debate on it's own, maybe it's just me but, it seems like it would be a little redundant as it's already been played out here.

Apologies, to asala if you feel we've hijacked your thread.

There are many factors that affect survivability in cold water near drownings (age, health, water temp, duration of submersion) but without a doubt, children have the best chances of survival in extended submersion scenerios.

This could be due to the resiliency of youth, a lesser body mass allowing for quicker cooling, or the combination of both plus other factors.

For those following along ( sometimes I forget there's an "audience" ) I've dug up a few more links.

Journal of the American Medical Association
October 28, 1992

"Severe accidental hypothermia (body temperature below 30° C (86° F]) is associated with marked depression of cerebral blood flow and oxygen requirement, reduced cardiac output, and decreased arterial pressure. Victims can appear to be clinically dead because of marked depression of brain and cardiovascular function, but full resuscitation with intact neurological recovery is possible, although unusual. The victim's peripheral pulses and respiratory efforts may be difficult to detect, but lifesaving procedures should not be with held based on clinical presentation."

"pulse and respirations may need to be checked for longer periods to detect minimal cardiopulmonary efforts"

www.hypothermia.org...

STATE OF ALASKA COLD INJURIES AND COLD WATER
NEAR DROWNING GUIDELINES (Rev 01/2005)

"1. Hypothermia provides some temporary protection from the effects of cardiopulmonary arrest and prolongs the possibility of normal recovery"

"2. Because of the protective effect of severe hypothermia, resuscitation efforts should not be discontinued according to the same time criteria used for normothermic patients."

www.hypothermia.org...

STATE OF ALASKA
Cold Injuries
Guidelines (PDF, starting on pg 28)

"D. If a person has been under water for less than one hour, full resuscitative efforts should be employed."

"F. If the length of time under water is unknown, it should be considered to have been less than one hour unless there are obvious signs of long submersion including slippage of skin or animal predation."

"I. The difference between warm and cold water is that in submersions greater than 6 minutes, the chance for survival in warm water is much less than in cold water. The colder the water, the better the chance for survival."

ci.battle-creek.mi.us...


JBurns

Please understand, none of this was meant to be an attack on you; lifesaving is a noble cause in any form, and for all I know, you live in a warm climate where it's not relevant or considered "need to know" material.

In the north and midwest, where we have ice fishing accidents and other situations on a yearly basis, it is far more nescessary to learn about these types of scenerios.

If you still think a debate is nescessary, let me know, but like I said, I think it might be a bit redundant just to rehash what we've already posted.

amithyzt
don't hate me!

Nah, I don't "hate" anyone here, in fact, it was a great idea.

I always forget that they sponsor debates in their own separate forum here.

However, (and maybe I'm alone in this opinion) like I've stated, in this instance it feels like it would suffer from the old "beating a dead horse" syndrome.

I'll definately have to keep that option in mind for future reference though.


[edit on 11/26/05 by redmage]

Everyone, I appolgize. I talked to my Department's EMS director, and she said almost exactly what mage was saying. Thanks to him, and this thread, I've gained valuable knowledge that could help me save a drowning victims life.

Unfortunatley this topic isn't covered until the paramedic (emt-p) level.

Originally posted by JBurns
Everyone, I appolgize. I talked to my Department's EMS director, and she said almost exactly what mage was saying. Thanks to him, and this thread, I've gained valuable knowledge that could help me save a drowning victims life.

No problem at all.

You've chosen a noble and difficult career, and I wish you the best of luck, and strength, helping to save lives in the future.

Thank you very much, much appreciated.

And back to orignial topic, medically speaking, I can say that 11 years isn't possible.

Didn't you just say a few posts ago with just as much certainty that anything over an hour wasn't possible?

Just playing a little advocate for you-know-who, I know it's a drastically different scenario. I would suspect this is a case of make someone appear dead to later use them for other purposes type thing.