Do Prions Exist?

IMO - our two hypotheses do not contradict one another - simply add elements to the complexity. In fact, makes sense to me that ASMA resulted -maybe accidentally- from a bioweapon created in Germany then distributed in US troops via German-connected cigarette/vaccine manufacturers in the USA.


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This is by far the best thread this week. Thanks and applause to matt, sofi, nyg, and thermo for your detailed research, links, and hypothosis. Good form mates.

I have read some of the other threads on prions, but I dont really know beans about them. It is my habit to research before spouting off though. After doing this, I get the impression that there is some hope for the prions therapy.

In an article posted in January, (I dont have the required subscription to read the whole thing) (hint, help matt!) indicates progress using antibodies. Specifically an antibody called Fab-D18.

Progress in prion vaccines and immunotherapies
JK Griffin, NR Cashman - Expert Opinion on Biological Therapy, 2005 - dx.doi.org
... The kinetics of the prion antibody clearance indicate that FAB-D18, the most effective Fab, was able to clear infected cultures within 24 h of treatment, while at

Antibodies inhibit prion propagation and clear cell cultures of prion infectivity Nature
In cells treated with the most potent antibody, Fab D18, prion replication is abolished and pre-existing PrPSc is rapidly cleared, suggesting that this antibody may cure established infection.

Progress in prion vaccines and immunotherapies. Pub Med

Recently, it has been shown that antibodies directed against the normal cellular isoform of PrP (PrPC) can reduce or eliminate PrP isoform conversion in both in vitro and in vivo model systems. Similar studies with a PrPSc-specific epitope target are in progress. There is now rational hope that this devastating group of diseases may soon be amenable to immunotherapy and immunoprophylaxis

There are more links, but I wanted make sure that the FAB-d18 info was out there.

Cheers

[edit on 11/17/05 by makeitso]

Originally posted by makeitso
This is by far the best thread this week. Thanks and applause to matt, sofi, nyg, and thermo for your detailed research, links, and hypothosis. Good form mates.

Hey... thanks for the vote of confidence... though I didn't think I added much, but thanks!

In an article posted in January, (I dont have the required subscription to read the whole thing) (hint, help matt!) indicates progress using antibodies. Specifically an antibody called Fab-D18.

I can probably help you out.

Is this the article?

Progress in prion vaccines and immunotherapies
JK Griffin, NR Cashman - Expert Opinion on Biological Therapy, 2005 - dx.doi.org

I am not familiar with this publication. I don't know if my inst. subscribes to it or not. Will check. U2U me with a ref, and I'll see what I can do.

If I recall makeitso... I think I owe you a ref anyway... didn't you provide with some insight and refs. for the first thread I ever started on abiotically formed oil. I think you did.

Is this the article?

Yes, that is the article. Actually I think the first and third quote are the same article listed in seperate journals.

Nope, I was wrong, they are both the same article, and both point to the same journal.


[edit on 11/17/05 by makeitso]

Here is another tech report on the issue.

Fab D18 does hold promise, but, in the concentrations used in the research what other cells will be attacked?

www.nature.com...

It appears the concentrations used on the cellular level were quite high. Again I fear unanticipated side effects on organs that "filter" disease.........

Thanks again guys, great stuff - and thanks makeitso.

Re: prion antibodies and FabD18.

Thermopolis' point has merit - but also - prions create new strains at the drop of a hat. FabD18 targets but one strain, via one avenue. Not only does this targeting run the danger of triggering a new mutation/strain - but it does not deal with other existent strains.

IMO - the real promise for treatment lies in stem cell therapy. Prions replicate on physical contact with other proteins - and quite quickly too. BUT - numbers count. So when healthy proteins outnumber the prion proteins, the healthy guys win.

It really is quite simple. Stem cell therapies take care of any strain, while drug therapies like antibodies must be developed and targeted individually to every distinct strain.


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Originally posted by soficrow

IMO - the real promise for treatment lies in stem cell therapy. Prions replicate on physical contact with other proteins - and quite quickly too. BUT - numbers count. So when healthy proteins outnumber the prion proteins, the healthy guys win.

It really is quite simple. Stem cell therapies take care of any strain, while drug therapies like antibodies must be developed and targeted individually to every distinct strain.


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Hey there pumpkin......recent "personal" observation indicates stem cells add fuel to the prion explosion. Stem cells are "raw" material for the prions to "eat". But you are right "healthy" protein works in vast numbers.......problem......."healthy protein" from where?

Originally posted by thermopolis

Originally posted by soficrow

IMO - the real promise for treatment lies in stem cell therapy. Prions replicate on physical contact with other proteins - and quite quickly too. BUT - numbers count. So when healthy proteins outnumber the prion proteins, the healthy guys win.

It really is quite simple. Stem cell therapies take care of any strain, while drug therapies like antibodies must be developed and targeted individually to every distinct strain.


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Hey there pumpkin......recent "personal" observation indicates stem cells add fuel to the prion explosion. Stem cells are "raw" material for the prions to "eat". But you are right "healthy" protein works in vast numbers.......problem......."healthy protein" from where?

Healthy stem cells contain healthy protein - but they MUST be available in sufficient numbers for the reverse transformation to work. ...Hence the need to clone stem cells.


I just posted this in another thread on crustal meth, but it's relevant here too:

[We were talking about the skin reaction in addicts, which apparently is classified as "leukocytoclastic vasculitis."]

Dorlands says "exogenous or endogenous protein" can cause the hypersensitivity reaction in leukocytoclastic vasculitis. Dorland's reference to proteins raises the specter of prions. So here we go again...

Many drugs are known to create misfolded proteins that then become infectious prions inside the body. In my case, an allergic reaction to penicillin at the age of five created a prion called "a-smooth muscle actin" (ASMA), which then infected my blood vessels. In my late teens, my doctor decided I was not really allergic to penicillin, saying, as I recall, that I was "only hypersensitive." He treated me weekly with penicillin injections for "chronic bronchitis" - until I went into anaphylactic shock and a coma from the "treatment." These exposures resulted in my acquiring an incurable and now untreatable disease called fibromuscular dysplasia (FMD). (1)

FMD is one of a large group of diseases that involve ASMA. In fact, FMD appears to be one stage of the disease process where ASMA uses the vascular and immune systems to spread through the body.

Notably, Fibromuscular dysplasia (FMD) is one of the most important mimics of vasculitis. Also see "About primary systemic vasculitis" below.


The important information:

1. Drugs, including prescription medications, can create misfolded proteins, which cause hypersensitive or allergic reactions.

2. The misfolded proteins can become infectious prions and spread through the body.

3. The "hypersensitive response" can involve blood vessel walls, organs, lungs, skin, and more.

4. Once created, these artificial infectious prions don't die because they are not alive; they may become 'inactive,' but retain the ability to replicate on contact with similarly shaped healthy proteins, by transforming them.

5. Infectious prions can be passed on congenitally, and may cause birth defects or genetic mutations.

6. Infectious prions can be transmitted via urine and other bodily excretions, and have the ability to mutate into new strains on exposure to differently shaped proteins, or environmental change.

7. While allergic reactions to medications and other drugs are not the only way infectious prions are created, the process is both known and important.


IMPORTANT NOTE: Although infectious prions can't die, and they replicate by transforming healthy proteins on contact, the reverse also is true - they also can be transformed from their infectious shape into a healthy state when they are outnumbered. Stem cell therapy is the only treatment that can provide enough healthy proteins to outnumber infectious prions in the body, and do so without creating new prion strains.



1. Vascular Effects of Penicillin Allergy

1954 - "A case of vascular-spastic penicillin allergy." Z Arztl Fortbild (Jena). 1954 Dec 15;48(23-24):810-11. KRAUSE I. PMID: 14360179

1981 - Dtsch Med Wochenschr. 1981 Nov 13;106(46):1541-4. [Arterial vascular occlusion in penicillin allergy (author's transl)] Martin M, Becker M, Adjodani B, Zeitler E, Havers L. PMID: 6796371

2. Primary Systemic Vasculitis:

"Although hypersensitivity vasculitis is occasionally idiopathic, there are multiple known etiologies, including medications, infections, malignancy and primary connective tissue diseases.

As described by Mandell and Hoffman,1 vasculitis-induced injury to blood vessels may lead to increased vascular permeability, vessel weakening that causes aneurysm formation or hemorrhage, and intimal proliferation and thrombosis that result in obstruction and local ischemia. Because systemic vasculitis can affect vessels of all sizes and distributions, it has a wide spectrum of clinical features. Knowing the size of the vessels affected in a particular patient is important, since vessel size carries implications for the diagnosis, treatment and prognosis of the disease (Table 1)."

vasculitis - inflammation of a blood or lymph vessel; see arteritis, lymphangitis, and phlebitis. Called also angiitis.

www.geocities.com...

www.geocities.com...

"To grasp the nature of this mutation, it helps to know something about the organization of Genes. Genes consist of two strands of the DNA building blocks called nucleotides, which differ from one another in the bases they carry. The bases on one strand combine with the bases on the other strand to form base pairs: the "rungs" on the familiar DNA "ladder." In addition to holding the DNA ladder together, these pairs spell out the sequence of amino acids that must be strung together to make a particular protein. Three base pairs together--a unit called a codon--specify a single amino acid.

In our dying patient, just one base pair (out of more than 750) had been exchanged for a different pair. The change, in turn, had altered the information carried by codon 102, causing the amino acid leucine to be substituted for the amino acid proline in the man's PrP protein. With the help of Tim J. Crow of Northwick Park Hospital in London and Jurg Ott of Columbia Univand their colleagues, we discovered the same mutation in Genes from a large number of patients with Gerstmann-Straussler-Scheinker disease, and we showed that the high incidence in the affected families was statistically significant."

Ms. Crow person.........prions are the evil source of mans technological march to doom.

Originally posted by thermopolis

......prions are the evil source of mans technological march to doom.

I wouldn't call prions evil. But they certainly are real. And they're taking over the planet. But few people here are interested in the actual science - they prefer to blow it off as "yellow journalism."

Was it you who said prions are nano-particles? ...Have you considered nanobots and pharmaceutical nano-particles as vehicles for prion transmission? Any paper on it?





EDIT: I'm also wondering about the principles used in nanobot replication. Ie see here:

Robot Replication


[edit on 21-11-2005 by soficrow]

Originally posted by soficrow

I wouldn't call prions evil. But they certainly are real. And they're taking over the planet. But few people here are interested in the actual science - they prefer to blow it off as "yellow journalism."

Was it you who said prions are nano-particles? ...Have you considered nanobots and pharmaceutical nano-particles as vehicles for prion transmission? Any paper on it?

EDIT: I'm also wondering about the principles used in nanobot replication. Ie see here:

Robot Replication


[edit on 21-11-2005 by soficrow]

"This chapter is not really about life extension. Instead, its focus is on health extension: keeping the body in a state of good health.. This is a simpler topic, because we can ignore several philosophical questions. However, as the chapter unfolds, it will become clear that life extension is a natural consequence of health extension. As diseases are cured, causes of death will be avoided; as people make use of technology to improve their health, they will find themselves living longer--perhaps much longer."

www.xenophilia.org...

Long but worth the read............

A good introductory profile. Thanks thermopolis.

I noticed a while ago that many cures and treatments not covered by insurance now are being offered as "anti-aging" therapies and the like. ...Creating an economic barrier to good health, IMO.

Originally posted by thermopolis
Here is something I never saw coming. Venus is the source of 55 viral outbreaks?

www.ebicom.net...

The URL for that article has changed. It is now

www.datasync.com...

55 outbreaks?

For your information only:

"prioni" is a Greek word meaning saw with a serrated blade.

Suddenly prion becomes more intimidateng, doesn't it?

Our brains are and have beeb prioned away for quite some time now...

[spelling...]

[edit on 19/8/2009 by GEORGETHEGREEK]