Denmark On Muhammeds Naughty List

burning other countries flags because of a stupid cartoon intended as a joke just shows how savage those people are. do you see americans or canadians burning flags because of a lousy joke? no. why? more civilized and smart thats why. i think its ridiculouse when eastern countries burn flags dont you guys?

Originally posted by Nygdan
What is the actual news source on fake cartoons being used? All I see are blobs citing other blogs.


and,I might've missed it but, where are these cartoons, the 12 that are at the start of the problem? I haven't seen them yet. Anyone have them, know where they are?

[edit on 3-2-2006 by Nygdan]

Here is a link that has the original cartoons but there appears to be some fake cartoons that were not run in the paper that are getting the muslems in a lather. Those I have not seen.



www.frontpagemag.com...

I think the reason that this issue has been a slow burn from last september is because it was only with the distribution of the other pictures that trouble arose.

Those pics were created by muslims to generate trouble and incite religious hatred.

Its a classic conspiracy and one that should be highlighted here more.

Attacking Islam under the execuse of freespeech is not valid. For that execuse to be valid you have to guarantee that :
All parties has to be treated equally and must be given equal rights of freespeech. This is not achieved in Eurpoe. The one abvious examples is that Jews enjoy special treatment that protects them and their religion from any crtitisicm.

So either you allow offending every one or just prohibit offending them all.

I will show examples of how selective freespeech rights are in Europe.

Irving, a British historian is jailed for denying the Holocaust :

Irving, a British historian, is currently languishing in jail in Vienna, awaiting trial in February next year for denying the Holocaust. He was arrested in November while on a speaking tour of Austria for comments he made in the country over 15 years ago. Back then he allegedly made two speeches in which he denied that there were any gas chambers under the Nazis (he has apparently since revised his views and now accepts that there may have been a few such devices). Holocaust denial is a crime in Austria, and if found guilty Irving could be jailed for up to 10 years (2). His case has not become an international cause célèbre

www.spiked-online.com...

Wow .. 10 years sentence for denying the Holocaust… WOW.. JUST WOW.
Is that freespeech?
The writer cannot express his opinions in the civilized Europe.

when it comes to free speech it's all or nothing: we either have it or we don't. And if we were to have free speech for one writer but not for another, then we wouldn't have free speech at all.

www.spiked-online.com...

Exactly that is what I am talking about

I will show you something interesting , in several European countries there are already some laws that prohibit the Display of Materials Offensive to Religious Beliefs :

Germany:

In Germany, Section 166 of the Criminal Code forbids insults to a religion or "Weltanschauung" (world outlook), publicly or by dissemination of publications. It states:
1. Whoever publicly or by distribution of printed materials insults religious belief or Weltanschauung of others in manner that reasonably could be expected to disturb public peace, is subject to[punishment]
2. The same applies to persons who publicly insult a church or other association devoted to a religion or Weltanschauung.

www.interights.org...

Why did Germany republish the pictures? Aren’t those pictures materials insults religious belief or Weltanschauung of others in manner that reasonably could be expected to disturb public peace ?

Spain :

In Spain, though the crime of blasphemy was abolished in 1988, the Constitutional Court has ruled that the right to freedom of expression, broadly protected by Article 20 of the Constitution, can be subject to restrictions aimed both at the protection of the rights of others as well as at the protection of other constitutionally protected interests. The extent to which "rights of others" may justify a restriction is construed narrowly by the Court; generally speaking, the "other" must be an identified individual whose fundamental rights have been directly affected by the expression.

www.interights.org...

Even in Denamark there are such similar law:

In Denmark, while a law prohibiting blasphemy exists under Section 140 of the Danish Penal Code, it has not been used since 1938. The Danish Penal Code also contains a provision (Section 266b) against expressions that threaten, deride or degrade on the grounds of race, colour, national or ethnic origin, belief or sexual orientation. That provision, however, has never been used against statements offensive to religion.

www.interights.org...

And Norway:

In Norway, Section 142 of the Penal Code provides the possibility of punishment for any person who "publicly insults or in an offensive manner shows contempt for any religious creed or for the doctrines or worship of any religious community lawfully existing here." However, this provision has not been applied by the courts since 1936

www.interights.org...


you can see that there are laws in Europe that prohibit offending or insulting any religious creed.
Why these laws are not implementing when the offence is against Muslims?!!
Do the governments in the European countries have selective memory regarding the laws that they have?

Another example:

Belgian Holocaust denier held at Schiphol

Belgian Holocaust denier held at Schiphol
BRUSSELS -- Belgian negationist [European word for Holocaust denier] and extreme-rights publicist Siegfried Verbeke has been arrested at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam [Holland] and might be extradited to Germany for trial. A German judge issued an international arrest warrant against Verbeke at the end of last year because he cast doubt over the internet whether the Nazis actually killed six million Jews in World War II.

www.fpp.co.uk...

He was arrested in the airport !! and might be extradited to Germany for trial !!!!
Why ? what he did?
Is he a terrorist, to deserve such treatment?

Most of you said something like how silly is making a problem over some cartoon pictures. Now I will show you how silly is Italy when it banned a poster !!

Poster banned in Milan:

The poster, by French fashion house Marithé and François Gribaud, is a version of Leonardo da Vinci's work with an almost all-female cast. Angelic-looking women clad in the company's "casual chic" pose around a long table as Christ and his apostles. One man, John the Apostle, sits on a woman's lap, his torso bare and jeans riding low.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Here is the poster that they are talking about

In Milan, where Leonardo's fresco is preserved and the influence of the Vatican is never far away, city authorities have banned it.

Their decision follows a ruling by the city advertising watchdog last month. This Last Supper "inevitably recalls the very foundations of the Christian faith", said the Istituto di Autodisciplina Pubblicitaria. "This kind of image, with a high concentration of theological symbols, cannot be recreated and paro died for commercial ends without offending the religious sensitivities of at least part of the population."

www.guardian.co.uk...

The civilized Italy that enjoys freespeech have banned a poster.
aren’t they silly that they banned a poster? shouldn’t they grew up and not acting Childish?

The evidence is overwhelming that European governments have selective memories and double standards about what is freespeech and what is not.



[edit on 3-2-2006 by Deep_Blue]

Jordan weekly reprints blasphemous cartoons
The editor of the Jordan Shihan Weekly magazine was fired for reprinting 12 of the cartoons, and telling muslims to "behave rationally". I wonder if Jordan will be boycotted too?


US backs Muslims in cartoon dispute

The State Department spokesman had no comment why the United States choose to pass judgment in a dispute that does not involve America.

Apparently the State Department is auditioning for the lead story on the Jon Stewart show.

Originally posted by Deep_Blue
Attacking Islam under the execuse of freespeech is not valid. For that execuse to be valid you have to guarantee that :
All parties has to be treated equally and must be given equal rights of freespeech. This is not achieved in Eurpoe. The one abvious examples is that Jews enjoy special treatment that protects them and their religion from any crtitisicm.

So either you allow offending every one or just prohibit offending them all.

DeepBlue, in this you are right (almost!). -And your examples that you bring up are also very good examples, that the countries of Europe is not perfect. Neither has anyone stated that. In fact, that is the eternal fight of democracy, to overcome our dumb decisions and other mistakes.
Since europeans are human beings too, we will also make the inevitable mistakes of offending someone. This is what makes it so important make some leeway for errors. Not blatantly declare bloodfeuds! That's where diplomacy is a good tool. Stating "We will kill You infidels for this", isn't a diplomatic way to solve a crisis. If someone outside my window, start to instigate fires and become frenzied, I will surely open my gunsafe, load my gun, and UNlock my front-door, just in case someone wants to enter voluntarily & uninvited into my house. Then I will prove to them, there is no higher entity welcoming them, wether his name is Allah or God.

Originally posted by GrowingConspiracy
burning other countries flags because of a stupid cartoon intended as a joke just shows how savage those people are. do you see americans or canadians burning flags because of a lousy joke? no. why? more civilized and smart thats why. i think its ridiculouse when eastern countries burn flags dont you guys?

it isn't a joke to them!

first off, depiction of the prophet or allah is considered a sin in islam. top that off by making a charicature or the prophet with a bomb for a turbin, and you've got one hell of an offensive "joke"...

if you're a christian, would you like to see jesus being depicted slaughtering and raping the aboriginal people that were raped and slaughtered in his name? would you like to see the virgin mary depicted as a prostitute giving out sexual favors to the pharisees?

it is a HUGE deal for muslims, so don't be that intolerant. if the USA got as offended as these people got, they'd invade the offending country.

It is important that the media around the world are reprinting these pictures. The ones to blame for this are the danish muslim delegation who were touring the Middle-East showing fabricated pictures NOT printed by Jyllands-Posten and telling them lies as well. The angry muslims around the world have not seen the real pictures yet, and they still believe the lies. Making it worse is apologizes from JP. This make many muslims believe that they printed the fabricated pictures (pig nose, pedophile and animal sex) after all, which they in fact didn´t. These danish fundamentalist muslims who caused this mess should be expelled from Denmark. They are to blame, they are the criminals. The worst picture of the real 12 pictures printed in the newspaper were the one where a bearded man had a bomb in his turban. But videos of beheadings (real, not cartoons) ... do I need to say more?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by GrowingConspiracy
burning other countries flags because of a stupid cartoon intended as a joke just shows how savage those people are. do you see americans or canadians burning flags because of a lousy joke? no. why? more civilized and smart thats why. i think its ridiculouse when eastern countries burn flags dont you guys?

it isn't a joke to them!

first off, depiction of the prophet or allah is considered a sin in islam. top that off by making a charicature or the prophet with a bomb for a turbin, and you've got one hell of an offensive "joke"...

if you're a christian, would you like to see jesus being depicted slaughtering and raping the aboriginal people that were raped and slaughtered in his name? would you like to see the virgin mary depicted as a prostitute giving out sexual favors to the pharisees?

it is a HUGE deal for muslims, so don't be that intolerant. if the USA got as offended as these people got, they'd invade the offending country.

Please the Jews and christians have had cartoons made about them much worst then this one. They are even a few on the page before this one and theres alot more.

No mass protest calling for the death and destruction of countries or people.

Oh And the US never evaded a single country over a cartoon

Originally posted by Hellmutt
It is important that the media around the world are reprinting these pictures. The ones to blame for this are the danish muslim delegation who were touring the Middle-East showing fabricated pictures NOT printed by Jyllands-Posten and telling them lies as well.

In my answer to deep-blues topic
European countries cannot justify Insulting Islam under the excuse of freespeech

" I provided a link to

The 12 cartoons published in Denmark's Jyllands-Posten in September 2005

and also

a link to the three fraudulent anti-Mohammed depictions from the booklet the iman- delegation distributed (and that have NOT been published in that newspaper)

Thanks Riwka,

I think I´ve also provided those links (or similar) in this thread. It´s many pages now. I started this thread in November last year

Three cheers and a round of Beers for Helmutt and Riwka for bringing foward the hidden information, instead of letting us be ignorant.




Now I have to find more confirmation (2 sources are required for journalistic creditablity).

Originally posted by Riwka

Originally posted by Hellmutt
It is important that the media around the world are reprinting these pictures. The ones to blame for this are the danish muslim delegation who were touring the Middle-East showing fabricated pictures NOT printed by Jyllands-Posten and telling them lies as well.

In my answer to deep-blues topic
European countries cannot justify Insulting Islam under the excuse of freespeech

" I provided a link to

The 12 cartoons published in Denmark's Jyllands-Posten in September 2005

and also

a link to the three fraudulent anti-Mohammed depictions from the booklet the iman- delegation distributed (and that have NOT been published in that newspaper)

I understand that there were misinformation and exaggerations that made the situation worse. But the point is that publishing any picture of Muhammad is offensive to Muslims:

Originally posted by Deep_Blue
The problem is that Europeans are ignorant with the importance of Mohammad in Islam.. it is really really really serious offence to just draw a picture (any picture) of Mohammad , so its worse to make comic cartoons about him.

So any picture even if it was perfect beautiful drawing will be harmful to Muslims.

Originally posted by Deep_Blue

So any picture even if it was perfect beautiful drawing will be harmful to Muslims.

I know this- but an important point has been overlooked: despite the Islamic prohibition against depicting Mohammed under any circumstances, hundreds of paintings, drawings and other images of Mohammed have been created over the centuries - with nary a word of complaint from the Muslim world.

Depictions of Mohammed Throughout History

Originally posted by Riwka
I know this- but an important point has been overlooked: despite the Islamic prohibition against depicting Mohammed under any circumstances, hundreds of paintings, drawings and other images of Mohammed have been created over the centuries - with nary a word of complaint from the Muslim world.
Depictions of Mohammed Throughout History

To be honest I never heard about these pictures before. But what Iam sure about is that no pictures of Muhammad were shown to Muslim masses before. maybe those drawing were made by Shia (10% of Muslims) in Iran, because most of the pictures in that site are from Persia. Shia are quite different from Sunna (90% of Muslims) and they have some twisted beleives that are not acceptable by Sunni. So I like to conclude that its highly unlikely that the 90% of Muslims who are Sunni made such pictures. However this needs more investigation to proof the historical roots of those pictures.



[edit on 3-2-2006 by Deep_Blue]

[edit on 3-2-2006 by Deep_Blue]

I find it so backwards, that the muslims are being offended, instead of honoured, that an artist (not the spiteful ones!) would take his/hers time to portray Mohammed. I can definitely not see any harm of depicting their prophet to commemorate his ideology!

Originally posted by Deep_Blue

maybe those drawing were made by Shia (10% of Muslims) in Iran, because most of the pictures in that site are from Persia. Shia are quite different from Sunna (90% of Muslims) and they have some twisted beleives that are not acceptable by Sunni. So I like to conclude that its highly unlikely that the 90% of Muslims who are Sunni made such pictures. However this needs more investigation

So...

Is Iran about to receive the same reaction now?

Investigation should have been done before they started their "war" against Denmark...

[edit on 2006/2/3 by Hellmutt]

makeitso
Now I have to find more confirmation (2 sources are required for journalistic creditablity).

I did find more information about the other 3 pictures.

A group of Danish imams toured the Middle East denouncing their own country for allowing images of the Prophet Mohammed to be published.

The group created a 43-page dossier on what they said was rampant racism and Islamophobia in Denmark and took it to politicians and leading clerics in Egypt and Lebanon in a series of trips late last year.

Mr Akkari's delegations travelled several times to Egypt and Lebanon, visiting officials from the Arab League, academics and religious leaders, including the Grand Mufti of Egypt.

Included in this booklet were the 3 fake cartoons. Ahmed Akkari did not deny the inclusion of the 3 pictures in the booklet that the imams handed out. He did say that they were pictures that were sent to Danish muslims, but when reporters asked to speak to these people, the request was denied.

Deep_blue
Iam sure about is that no pictures of Muhammad were shown to Muslim masses before.

Are you reeeaaallly sure?

Several media organisations, some in the Arab world but also including the BBC and the Australian SBS television network, have mistakenly reported that the pig-snouted cartoon was one of those published in Jyllands-Posten.
From here

Originally posted by makeitso
Are you reeeaaallly sure?

yes.. the source you provided is talking about the same pictures that were published by the Danish newspaper. and My statement is about that no pictures were shown to masses in the past (ex, before 2005)

the source you provided is talking about the same pictures that were published by the Danish newspaper.

Negative friend.
The source was talking about the 3 fake pictures that the imams provided. Those were never published in the Danish newspaper.

My statement is about that no pictures were shown to masses in the past (ex, before 2005)

I will give you that one, since I thought you were talking about the 3 fake pictures that the imams were passing out. However, I will look into the truthfulness of that statement, and I will conceed your point if it is a fact.