Does Anyone Truly Believe America To Be A Free Country ?

No we are not truely free.

Like one of the user replied "It's all an illusion "and I agree with that. We think we are but in reality we really aren't. The government just make it so that it seems like it is and people is actually stupid enough to believe it.

What a world we live in.

It's pretty sad when here in America we have "free speech zones." Last year we had that at the RNC and DNC. As Michael Badnarik (Libertarian Party) pointed out, any free speech zone is where you're standing!

As I pointed out in another thread, judge-buster Sherman Skolnick has been declared to be a "domestic terrorist" because of his court-reforming activities. Know what he faces? The stripping of his American citizenship (as far as I know he was born an American) and an indefinite amount of time in jail! What First Amendment!?

These are not "privileges" that the Constitution gives us. Rather, the Constitution recognizes our inalienable rights! Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

Our Founding Fathers must be spinning in their graves.... :shk:

Ameicans sense of freedom is a from a very capitalist (ownership, lower taxes, etc.) perspective while Europeans freedom are more socialist free health care, more political parties, etc. What really bothers me as an American is the level of Propaganda here is just sickening everything we do has freedom attached to it and all our Global interests are suppsodely to spread freedom and democracy throughout the world. If you believe all the crap spewed forth you would think America is the only "free" country on earth which is a total load. Head to Sweden, Britain, South Korea etc they have many freedoms also but it is not contanstly used as a mind control technique as it is Stateside.

Thats my Gripe
And remeber those "terrorists attacked us because they hate our freedoms"
The biggest steaming pile of them all.

Originally posted by Bandar Paul
And remeber those "terrorists attacked us because they hate our freedoms"
The biggest steaming pile of them all.

How so?
The expression: 'terrorist attacked us because they hate our freedoms' eludes to more than you have discerned or explained?

These terrorist are Islamic in origin, covering a significant region. As such, Islam wishes to not become westernized, influenced by Western notions, habits, or freedoms, to not have Western-styled ot type governments much less our religions and their influences in their secularized Islamic and Arabic/Muslim societies, etc. Thus our Western freedoms are, and have been, a valid threat to those terrorists and thier desired way of continued living or way of defining freedom. Hence, their hatred of Western-styled and type freedom.

Obviously, this can be debated, for what I have mentioned above is but one perspective of a larger set of explanations and/or counter perspectives.





seekerof

The reason I wrote that last bit is I think it says a lot about how freedom is used as a Propaganda tool in the U.S.
America is in many ways imploading from within but our leaders still use the freedom chanting to pretend everything is OK. For instance the causes of terroism is highly complex and every country on earth has used terroism at some time or another. After 911 Instead of talking about the reasons that happened and what we would do about it our leaders made a simple balnket statement about freedom. Dont want to change the subject of this thread but it just shows the level of hypocrisy going on.


"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
from Boswell's Life of Johnson

2.Fireworks. Are they any safer in some states than others?

The answer to that, is yes, they are safer in some places than others.
"looks out the window at crispy dry desert vegetation"

The question as a whole.
I think we are pretty darned free.

I chose where to live, without being told.
I picked out the vehicle of my choice, without being told what to buy.
I chose my job.
I buy groceries, when I feel like it and buy what I want.
I chose my wife, we got married in the venue of our choice..
etc.etc
Thats a lot of I's...

I think, in a lot of cases, the feeling of non-freedom is self imposed..

Is America free?
Hmmm, let's see... I live in a house that I chose, no one else. In a town
I chose no one else... in the last election I voted for the canidates (bad spelling, sorry), and issues I supported of my own free will. I go on vacation at least once a year, and I go pretty much wherever I choose to without regard to borders.
Society as a whole must have rules in order to function effectively. It is up to us as members of that society to make sure that those rules are fairly enforced to do the most good for the most people possible, you can't make everyone happy. No one says you can't raise a fuss though, that right there is the mark of a free and open society which America most certainly is.
Post is rambling a bit, sorry. A long night at work.

Originally posted by seagull
Is America free?
Hmmm, let's see... I live in a house that I chose, no one else. In a town
I chose no one else... in the last election I voted for the canidates (bad spelling, sorry), and issues I supported of my own free will. I go on vacation at least once a year, and I go pretty much wherever I choose to without regard to borders.

True but that is true of countleess nations on earth. And as for the election there were only two to choose from, how is that freedom. As for Vacations Americans on average get 2 weeks paid holiday a year while Western Europeans get far more. The media is controlled by so few now I think that severly limits freedom in the US. A sign of a free and diverse media is a sign of a free democracy we are currently ranked 44th in that regard, just behind Macedonia. Corporations are the only things truly free in America, the control how think, who we vote for, and what we buy.

Originally posted by CyberKat
1) 21 is the "magic age" where one is responsible enough to drink alcohol, but 18 is the "magic age" where one is capable enough to take on the heavy responsibility of fighting wars, operating dangerous weapons, treading very hazardous grounds, etc.... Also, if you break the law at age 17 (in most cases), you are just a kid, don't know what you were doing, so let it go off your record in a few years. But, a year later (like all people mature at the same rate), commit the same crime, and run the risk of life in prison or the death penalty. ~ The things mentioned here, just don't add up or made sense to me ~

The 21 and over drinking age is due to Mother's Against Drunk Driving (MADD) lobbying congress for tougher drinking laws. In 1984 congress passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act which basically blackmailed the states to change their drinking age to 21 or loose federal funds for highways.

It's kinda messed up that a special interest group that's largely in the minority can have such a huge influence on legislation isn't it? Reminds me of another special interest group that's keeping marijuana from being legalized: America's drug companies.

3) Gambling. Are people more responsible in some states than others?

You can add prostitution to #3 as well. And the answer to your question is that people just tend to be more prudish in some states, I chalk this one up to evangelism.

4) G.W. Bush. I won't go into the "elected or selected" deal, but, if we really did put him in charge of our country, trust him to be a good leader, then when he has proven just the opposite, why can't we choose another leader? Now?

Because republicans control congress, and until democrats get a majority they can't impeach him even though there are very compelling reasons to remove him from office.

5) The Constituition. Many people say that it can be interpreted many different ways. O.K. I will accept that. However, there are some sentences in it that read like a first grade reader. Such as the well known phrase: "All persons have the inherent right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness...."

This is one of the reasons why I feel that capital punishment and pre-emptive wars should be illegal.

You make a lot of good points but you have to realize that America the country hasn't always been congruent with America the ideal. This is why it's important for us as Americans to take an active interest in politics and make an effort to change public opinion, because if we keep electing people like George W. you can kiss America the ideal goodbye.

America is less unfree than any other nation on Earth! Doesn't that count for anything?

In all seriousness-- yes, this nation is not as free as many seem to believe it to be, and it becomes less so with each passing year. As the population increases and the resources decrease-- as the powers-that-be struggle to retain their primacy against an ever-expanding awareness of their abuses-- as more people become more bitter and nihilistic with the growing certainty that the game is rigged in somebody else's favor-- the freedoms that we once enjoyed steadily diminish.

The US had the best opportunity to actually be a truly free nation. Its failure to maintain the freedoms that the Constitution implied through its strict limitation on governmental power merely serves to demonstrate that megalomaniacs will, given enough time and resources and gullible followers, turn any system to their advantage. And if the power-mongers are really good at it, people will continue to defend them even as they're being fitted for chains because, after all, every other nation's chains are worse.

Americans are not free by some supernatural power or godly force. Americans are free because of a constant and steady fight that has gone on in this country since it's birth. Mostly political, the fight has waged and waged, day after day and alot of blood has been spilled to keep it that way.

I honestly feel that the battle is almost lost now simply because not enough people care anymore. Most people honestly don't care what's going on. I'd say "Sheeple", and for the meer fact that the American Idol contest recieved 30x more votes than our Presidential Elections did (Not that it really mattered which was elected, in my opinion, it was 2 evils, but still a valid point)

I believe Americans have better and are more able than any other country in the world to MAKE political decisions simply for the fact I stated above, 200 years of blood, sweat and tears by handfuls of tireless patriots guarding their best interests. We are more able to reach out to our legislators and can be more persuasive in numbers than any other country in the world, the problem is, actually doing it. Woodstock ended a war. The voices were heard in the end loud and clear. A bit too late but it could have been worse.

So to phrase this, we are free enough (barely) that we still have somewhat control over what happens simply because of a few basic rights that our constitutions provides us with (how long this will last I don't know, since recently Bush stated that our constitution is "just a god***ned piece of paper") keeps us in a position to make our voice heard.

Reference to the remarks can be found all over the net on hundreds of pages (except for BBC, CBS, FOX, NBC, as far as I know, the main guys) so take it as you will. Seems pretty valid from what I've read.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

I don't know, Freedom of Speech/Freedom of the Press, I don't believe is truly free. I mean, if reporters were free to report their true findings on anyting they wished, they would. They wouldn't show only partical aspects of things. Take a look for example at some not-publicized-by-the-media information onThe Federal Reserve Bank

I don't have any othe links at the moment at my disposal, however, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there isn't a whole lot else that the media supressed from us.

And, how can any one of us feel truly free to speak on the phone, when the government has been listening in/spying on anyone at whim. And this is disregarding the so-called illegal spying without a warrant that has recently come to light. Under the Patriot Act, they could do the same thing, just with a warrant that doen't even have to have your name on it from a secret court that supposedly rarely turned down a request for one.

You don't have to do anything wrong to have your privacy invaded. Ever since 9/11, all you had to do was walk down the sidewalk, smile and say "hello" to a complete stranger in passing, that the gov't might have their eyes on. That automatically made you a possible target for investigation and whatever they wanted to do with you after that. That is not free, and it is not anarchy, either. It sounds more like conditioning of the general public for a true police state.

Just because it hasn't happened to you, or anyone you know, YET, doesn't mean that it won't tomorrow, or the next day, etc...

How free are we to write in a forum on the Internet our true feelings and thoughts? (true, on this one, I think that most of us do for now, but don't you guys think that eventually they will catch up, as they have already done to some others and one day, freedom of exchanging of information on the Internet will also be restricted) Just by the fact the the NSA got a patent about 3 months ago, allowing them to follow anyone they please around the Internet and keep track of what websites they go to, etc... in a good indication that freedom on the Internet is soon to be restricted.

'Nuff ranting.