How can the US Complain about Chinese Military Bulidup?

Originally posted by COWlan
Why is America hyping the China Threat theory. America spends more than anyone else in the world, infact America spends more than the rest of the world combined!! America has more of anything than anyone else, so I really think America should shut up and stop whining.

ahh, yes. it all boils down to jealousy in the end, doesnt it? america has more of this and more of that. instead of whining and moaning about what we have worked our butts off for over the years, why dont you complain to your own government and ask them why you arent as well off as we are?

jealousy of what we have in america is the root of about 50% of the anti-america threads here, and its getting ridiculous.

if you have something productive to say, say it. but dont cry and whine simply because you dont have what we do.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by snafu7700]

Originally posted by snafu7700

Originally posted by COWlan
Why is America hyping the China Threat theory. America spends more than anyone else in the world, infact America spends more than the rest of the world combined!! America has more of anything than anyone else, so I really think America should shut up and stop whining.

ahh, yes. it all boils down to jealousy in the end, doesnt it? america has more of this and more of that. insteading whining and moaning about what we have worked our butts off for over the years, why dont you complain to your own government and ask them why you arent as well off as we are?

jealousy of what we have in america is the root of about 50% of the anti-america threads here, and its getting ridiculous.

if you have something productive to say, say it. but dont cry and whine simply because you dont have what we do.

If China built an airbase in Cuba and the US started complaining, would u call that jealousy?

Originally posted by k4rupt

If China built an airbase in Cuba and the US started complaining, would u call that jealousy?

the US does not have any bases in taiwan. the remarks made by COWlan had nothing to do with the topic on hand.

furthermore, the US isnt complaining about anything in regards to china. if any of you had actually read the entire article, you would have realized this.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by snafu7700]

Has everyone forgotten a little incident called Tiananmen Square? The US hasn't! Has everyone forgotten China's invasion of Tibet and it's brutal persecution of the Buddhist monks there? The US hasn't! Has everyone forgotten China's continual demands that Taiwan "return" to China's domination and control even though the Taiwanese don't want to be part of China? The US hasn't!

While China's move towards capitalism is nothing short of miraculous, China is far from being a free market. China flaunts copyrights and intellectual property, essentially China is a pirate state. China actively pursues industrial espionage to such an extent that it must be labeled as being government sponsored international espionage. The US certainly has made note of this.

Of course the US can complain about China's military build up. Who is China's enemy? Tibet? Taiwan? Who's going to invade China? Certainly not Tibet, Taiwan or, for that matter, the US.

Originally posted by COWlan
Why is America hyping the China Threat theory. America spends more than anyone else in the world, infact America spends more than the rest of the world combined!! America has more of anything than anyone else, so I really think America should shut up and stop whining.

Boy is that wishful thinking! These people have so much time on their hands they can't do anything else but whine.....that and dream up new enemies all the time...enough for one in every closet

if it keeps then its ok but if it dont guess the world will forever be changed, the CCP has taken and kept land while stealing/buying secrets from the west with the rumors of the CCP creating a blue water navy is most trouble to the balance and the Peace but the future will only tell the tale.

a link to confirm that the us has nothng in Taiwan.

As for tianamin sqaure etc, please go to the "Can China invade Taiwan" thread and be enlightened, I am not repeating myself 100 times.

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
a link to confirm that the us has nothng in Taiwan.

As for tianamin sqaure etc, please go to the "Can China invade Taiwan" thread and be enlightened, I am not repeating myself 100 times.

no offense, Middle, but how about some links to prove that there is? i've been all over the web and have talked to several friends still in the military, and can find no mention of any US bases in Taiwan. if you are going to insist that they are there, i think the burden of proof would be upon you.

I'm not saying that there is or isn't but when people claim something they should be able t back it up. However I will giv you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

However, does that include US naval assets as well? Are you absulutely sure that the US has no nautical military vessels in the area?

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
I'm not saying that there is or isn't but when people claim something they should be able t back it up. However I will giv you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

However, does that include US naval assets as well? Are you absulutely sure that the US has no nautical military vessels in the area?

lol...you know as well as i do that there are, indeed US naval vessels in the area. we are committed by treaty to help defend taiwan. i'm not saying i agree with my country's stance on this, but yes, that much is true.

I am stating that if you are technically superior to everyone else, America shouldn't hype up a threat theory about a country who is at least two decades behind America in all areas.

About Taiwan, I've wasted posting in at least four dozen pages in "Can China Invade Taiwan" thread a year ago (when it was still fourty pages long), if you need anything, just look in there, that thread has every nook and cranny covered with some obvious BS posted by people who doesn't have a point they want to share with other people.

Tibet is also covered in the "Can China Invade Taiwan" thread. Down to the bottom, Tibet has always been a part of China up to the fall of the Qing dynasty in early 1900s which threw China into a civil war of more than thirty years, the majority of the conflicts happened in middle and eastern China which left Tibet ungoverned for around two decades. After the liberation (there are still parts of China not yet returned to China), PRC took back Tibet because then we had the time and need to reunite China after the civil war. Taiwan is still a rogue state in its current form and I see the possible return of Mongolia back to China (Mongolia was separated in the 1950s due to Soviet political pressure).

The persecution of people happen everywhere, not just in China, it existed in western societies as well and still exist in one form or another. Sure CCP persecuted religious personnels but that is because religion is somewhat against communism or in other word, Communist ideology can not coexist with religious doctrine(if you don't know this, look it up). Persecution of people happened in America too, infact it wasn't that long ago either, Martin Luther King, ring a bell?

if there are naval units then those count as military units thus America has a military pressence in or near Taiwan. Point proven.

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
if there are naval units then those count as military units thus America has a military pressence in or near Taiwan. Point proven.

LMAO.....you specifically said military BASES. a ship is not a base. "what if china set up an airbase in cuba, how would you feel". you were proven wrong and bowed out with honor. dont ruin that by trying to make up extraneous BS now to cover your tracks.

Originally posted by COWlan
I am stating that if you are technically superior to everyone else, America shouldn't hype up a threat theory about a country who is at least two decades behind America in all areas.

again, what threat theory? it sounds to me like youre fighting another thread on this one. in fact, the title of this thread should be completely changed, because the story posted on page one says nothing about america hyping any theories. you need to go back and actually read the whole thing.

About Taiwan, I've wasted posting in at least four dozen pages in "Can China Invade Taiwan" thread a year ago (when it was still fourty pages long), if you need anything, just look in there, that thread has every nook and cranny covered with some obvious BS posted by people who doesn't have a point they want to share with other people.

ok, i am definitely right....youre trying to fight another thread here. pretty darn lame. if you cant win there, dont bring the BS here.

Persecution of people happened in America too, infact it wasn't that long ago either, Martin Luther King, ring a bell?

yes, and Rev. King changed life as we know it here. we are a completely different country than we were in 1965. but what's that got to do with the article on page one? again.....GO BACK AND READ THE ARTICLE.

...time to jump in


The title of the thread should be changed. china is not building up her forces but replacing them with newer systems.

America has nothing to complain about. The US spends more then the whole world combined. It has been trying to police every country in the world since the downfall of the soviet union. The US spends more on NASA then china spends for her entire military

The question is can one country control the whole world.

LMAO.....you specifically said military BASES. a ship is not a base. "what if china set up an airbase in cuba, how would you feel". you were proven wrong and bowed out with honor. dont ruin that by trying to make up extraneous BS now to cover your tracks.

Specifically....I dont think so.

He merely said what if.

I've stopped posting on "Can China Invade Taiwan" thread at about page 100. That thread has around 170 pages now right? Its too much mud slinging.

No China threat theory? Man you need to read the newspaper or go on the internet a little more. Enough said.

Originally posted by chinawhite
...time to jump in


The title of the thread should be changed. china is not building up her forces but replacing them with newer systems.

America has nothing to complain about.

again, who is complaining? for crying out loud, has ANYBODY on this thread actually read the damn article this thread is based on?

The US spends more then the whole world combined. It has been trying to police every country in the world since the downfall of the soviet union. The US spends more on NASA then china spends for her entire military

why does everyone want to twist the numbers around?

yes, the US is number one in the world at military spending. however, when you put that in context with our gross product, we only spend about 3.3 percent on military expenditures, as opposed to china's 4.1 (as of 2002).

source

furthermore, those numbers are probably off because china has a tendency to lie about its actual expenditures.

source

He merely said what if.

no, if you go back and read what he actually said, he tried to tell us that the US has bases in taiwan. and then when he couldnt prove it, he backed up and tried to call US navy vessels military bases, and if thats the case, then china has military bases sitting off our coast as we speak. get real.

Officially China spends 22 bil a year on its military. The percentage of GDP figure is extremely tiny compared to what we spent in the eighties in isolation. That figure is higher in reality however no one knows how much we really spend. The latests faculty study states Chinese defence spending is actually lower than previous estimates, CIA used to estimate as much as 80 Bil a year but that study stated the real figure was much closer to 50 Bil a year.

PLA/PLAN/PLAAF are all modernizing right now, we are switching from 50 year old equipment to 20 year old equipment and US is saying we are having a historic military buildup (Uncle Rummy and aunt Richy). Up until this year we still had MIG-15s in service MIG-15s god damn it. Thats the same stuff equipped by NK. Now its just J-7 Mig-21 spin-offs, J-8, J-11 and J-10, none of those are advanced by any standards. We still have 40 Romeo class spinoffs in our navy in active service ACTIVE SERVICE (thats Soviet post WWII subs modified with German U-Boat tech). Our army has thousands of outdated tanks of vehicles that wouldn't stand a chance against even 70s weapons, (we have a few thousand Type-59s which are Russia T-54 spin-offs). Our bomber fleet are composed off a hundred and something crappy H-6s which have been retired from Soviet AF for more than 30 years. You say if we need to modernize or not?

[edit on 4-11-2005 by COWlan]

Originally posted by COWlan
You say if we need to modernize or not?

[edit on 4-11-2005 by COWlan]

yup, it definitely sounds like modernization would be a good thing for china. i wasnt arguing that point at all. chinawhite brought up the number issue that everyone uses trying to prove how we grossly overspend, and i was only pointing out that what we spend is a smaller percentage of our GPD than china's expenditure.

as far as your comments about the china threat theory, it keeps coming up here in reference to the article on page one, but nothing in the article even comes close to mentioning a threat from china. in fact, it specifically talks about how the US commanders are looking for ways to work with china in that theater.

i do, however, realize that china is becomming a formidable world adversary to the US much in the way the former USSR was. and china looks at us the same way. this can be a good thing for both nations and the world. the US is in no way infallible, and having an adversary of china's size would help to keep us in check.

the funny thing is, the adverserial views that are shared between the US and china are the US's fault. we had a perfect opportunity in WWII to make china a partner for the future, but we blew it by backing the wrong side of your civil war. and for the stupidist reasons....fear of communism. we did the same thing in vietnam. ho chi minh only embraced communism when we left him hanging out to dry after supporting him against the japanese in wwII.

but i digress.....

Originally posted by snafu7700
again, who is complaining? for crying out loud, has ANYBODY on this thread actually read the damn article this thread is based on?

When you respond to a thread you tend to read the thread before responding.

The first thing you do is read ALL of the post

why does everyone want to twist the numbers around?
yes, the US is number one in the world at military spending. however, when you put that in context with our gross product, we only spend about 3.3 percent on military expenditures, as opposed to china's 4.1 (as of 2002).

Umm.

4.1 percent is the total figure china spends on everything.

Space programs, and dual use-tehnology.

This dual-use technology sector includes everything from trucks to supercomputers. The true figure is 1.8-2.3% as a whole of its GDP.

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Now is it nessasary to spend 450billion a year.? If you make it into a percentage you minizie the actual figure spent.

furthermore, those numbers are probably off because china has a tendency to lie about its actual expenditures.

The 4.1(4.3 from CIA) is the figure most people use as the example of chinas overspending.

If this was chinas offical spending than it would be 12% of the GDP which china cannot support

no, if you go back and read what he actually said, he tried to tell us that the US has bases in taiwan. and then when he couldnt prove it, he backed up and tried to call US navy vessels military bases, and if thats the case, then china has military bases sitting off our coast as we speak. get real.

Im sorry but i cant find anything

Maybe a quote is in order