2,500 evacuees being sent to Otis AFB (concentration camp??)

This is not a good thing......no matter how they try to spin it.

Oh ok...nevermind that the kids will be in school and adults will be able to job hunt and have a bed, hot meals and warm showers.

Also read your article again....apparantly they will bring in CIVILIAN law enforcement to take care of the little villiage on base or whatever that the evacuees will be staying at.

I gather you have not been to many bases. It's just like a regular community, kids playing, people walking dogs, BBQ's....only everything is painted the same color, I never understood that...anyways, sounds like a great idea to me, they will be much safer than in downtown chicago or detriot.

It really is a sad day when Americans see nothing wrong with free American citizens being housed on military bases, with 'security perimeters' and armed guards.


American's are being desensitized to accept military rule.

Sure, let's put them on a military base and let them wander wherever they want to. Anyone that has ever grown up on a military base knows that there are certain areas you DO NOT GO. If you didn't grow up on a base you aren't going to know where you can and can't go so you put law enforcement, and you give them certain areas it's safe for them to be at where they aren't going to disrupt base operations. It's that simple.

As far as WHY, where else would the be safer? Instead of putting them in an area where there is high crime, or not much security, a military base is the safest place for them to be. Like was stated previously, they're safer there than downtown in any major city in the US.

[edit on 11-9-2005 by Zaphod58]

I think using old military bases to house the hurricane survivors is a great idea. The government has control over many properties like this from closures over the years and what better way to use them.

Concentration camps, I doubt it. Most bases, when active, were completely surrounded by perimeter fences. Why spend the money to take the fences down? Besides that, where else will you find a ready made community? I'm sure that some of the homes, while old, would be more comfortable than the cheap trailers they always drag into disaster areas.

Guards? I hope so. I would think that even though a base is closed, you wouldn't want just anyone to walk on and strip abandoned buildings. There are a lot of taxpayer dollars left there.

I think people want to think the worst of our government, even during times of need. I see nothing but good common sense, and a good use of old military bases. Besides, these folks are going to need housing for several months, if not years.

I'm new to forums, please excuse and correct mistakes.

We are one of thousands of families who are opening their homes to US citizens of New Orleans. We live in Washington state as does my sister who has opened her home. When my sister called the Gov. office she was told they couldn't help her and she should call the Red Cross. The Red Cross said "We don't do that 'mam". They said she doesn't know what "kind" of people would come and they needed to keep them all together in groups so they could receive phsych care and BTW you can send money.

I found this while looking for Washingtons response:

seattlepi.nwsource.com...
"Wherever the evacuees end up staying, state officials will try to keep them together in one area to be able to keep better track of them and support their needs, said Rob Harper of the state's Emergency Management Division."

The rest of the article sounds peachy except:
"In Seattle, officials were taking inventory of both public and private housing, such as the old barracks at the former Sand Point Naval Station, which are not yet inhabitable, said Marianne Bichsel, a spokeswoman for the Mayor's Office."

It seems there is a concerted effort to keep these folks isolated. Some could say the refugees might like to be away from the limelight. I haven't seen a bunch of limelight for most. ID card? Bank deposits that may or may not be usable? (How do you fill out the paperwork for your bank when your bank is gone and your paperwork at home is flushed away?) Perhaps it does go too far to say this is some kind of planned extermination but it isn't too far to speculate that the goal is to keep them off balance until they almost forget their treatment and the horrors of the government failure to protect it's citizenry.

The emphasis in several reports that refugees will need psychological help sounds caring but, for me, has much more sinister implications. The ability to control groups is to keep them as groups so they are all in the same boat. They can get away with giving everybody 2 MRE a day if that is what everybody is getting. Hungry, scared, tired, dispare, bounced around from camp to detention/detainment, not able to get any solid bearings then having the phsych come and tell you what you are probably feeling.......


MoveOn.org has over 200,000 offers of housing for victems. Last I could see only 17,000 had been placed.....I don't know why. I'm looking into it.

In the meantime Oregon has been told they won't get any refugees despite preparations of homes for 500 and assistance from churches.

www.oregonlive.com.../base/news-12/112638834059090.xml&storylist=orlocal


My heart and head hurt....
Any thoughts? (not about my head)

Good find, I think the first quote from the article summed it up. How are you going to help people if you dont know who they are, and where they came from.

You need some form of ID, to weed out those that would try to take advantage of the situation, and scam a buck or two.

Is it really a great idea for the military or FEMA (who now falls under Homeland Security) to house free American citizens in 'camps' with secure perimeters and armed guard??? Asigning them with identification numbers?? Controling basic aspects of their daily lives...food, income, clothing, medical care, housing, schooling, ability to travel, etc.???? Subject to personal 'evaluations'???



Are all ya'll serious or are you guys just playin' with me 'cause i'm new?


I guess I assumed that because this is a conspiracy forum, that people here would be up on the big brother, policed state issue. Hmmmm.

My fault for making assumptions I guess.



There is an extremely good reason why the founding fathers would not have a centralized, military power policing American citizens.


It has alot to do with something called........................................
history.

Originally posted by porkchop1969
Are all ya'll serious or are you guys just playin' with me 'cause i'm new?

Nobody is playing with you.

It's just that not every story is a conspiracy. We are a discerning bunch for the most part. To see each and every story as a conspiracy, can take away from the legitimacy of actual conspiracies, if you know what I mean.

No doubt some people here agree with you, but I think most need a little more information before jumping on the conspiracy bandwagon in this particular case.

After all, we all know that military bases are under military rule. And they are just little private communities. I don't know what military information might still be housed on this base, but I don't think it's unreasonable to want everyone to have IDs in this case.

I'm from a military family, so perhaps that adds to my understanding. I'm going to read over the thread and I'll be back if I have any more comments.

Nobody's saying your wrong, but so far, I just think they don't see a particular reason to think that anything is out of order here.

Welcome to ATS.

Edit: No, I don't see anything wrong with this. Especially if it's an operating military base. Then definitely people can't be roaming around anywhere they wish. Even military families must have ID and aren't free to go into certain areas. A security perimiter makes sense to me. I don't know all the details, but so far, it sounds like the governor is offering a really cool thing, out of compassion. I could be wrong, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt on this one.

After all, if a refugee family (or anyone) came to stay in my home, you can bet they'd have to follow certain rules.

[edit on 11-9-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by porkchop1969
The miltary should not be policing, guarding, or detaining US citizens.

This is not a good thing......no matter how they try to spin it.

I agree.

Please check this out - my New Orleans 9/11 tribute:
www.podtrac.com...


.

Originally posted by porkchop1969
Is it really a great idea for the military or FEMA (who now falls under Homeland Security) to house free American citizens in 'camps' with secure perimeters and armed guard??? Asigning them with identification numbers?? Controling basic aspects of their daily lives...food, income, clothing, medical care, housing, schooling, ability to travel, etc.???? Subject to personal 'evaluations'?

Im really curious as to how you and Soficrowand the rest of them expect aid to be delivered and the like. It has to come from somewhere and you were all in arms that FEMA did not ride into town on day one with the white horse:

So how would you delver this much aid, and restore order? I really want to know cause untill now, all I have seen is alot of buzz words and unfounded theories :shk:

Is it really a great idea for the military or FEMA (who now falls under Homeland Security) to house free American citizens in 'camps' with secure perimeters and armed guard???

The DOD is Americas largest employer, over one million Military people live on a base of some sort (most of who are US Citizens), so is that bad? To live on base? Military members and thier families are housed by the military too ya know.

Asigning them with identification numbers??

Yeah, it's called Gee I lost all my ID's in the flood.....how will people know who I am???, not to mention that not just anyone can get on base unless they have certain ID's. Would you hire someone to work for you that had no form of ID? What if they wanna be a teacher....could be a few chesters floating in the crowd of evacuees....see my point?

Controling basic aspects of their daily lives...food, income, clothing, medical care, housing, schooling, ability to travel, etc.????

Controling?!?!?!? So according to you we should just let them all go on thier own and provide no assistance at all...is that right?

Subject to personal 'evaluations'???

Your life is just grand eh? No problems, stress free, no emotional issues. Must be great to be you. Meanwhile in the REAL WORLD thousands have lost EVERYTHING, homes, cars, banks, everthing they know is now GONE. To some people that might cause a few emotional/mental issues and of course they have no means to pay for counseling on thier own until they get a job.......and they can't get a job with all the stress that's going on...and they can't cure the stress without money..need a job for money...

So the Gov't (as crappy as it may be) is offering free Psych help or whatever to these people...why is that bad????

Ever heard of suicide prevention???? It's real ya know..and sometimes talking to a PRO or just someone can help with that.

sporty

[edit on 11/9/2005 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by porkchop1969
It really is a sad day when Americans see nothing wrong with free American citizens being housed on military bases, with 'security perimeters' and armed guards.


American's are being desensitized to accept military rule.

Free Americans are housed on military bases, with 'security perimeters' and armed guards everyday. They are called military families. It is just like a little town. The security perimeters and guards are there to protect the military installation. They are not there to hurt the evacuees.

Fort Carson is an active, very large Army base on the southern edge of Colorado Springs, CO. If people are being housed there, it is no "concentration camp". It is a open camp with bus service into town on the half hour. It has a beautiful veiw of Pikes Peak and the mountains, clean dry air and no ocean or hurricanes. It is a busy, active post and anyone given refuge there will be well taken care of and happy to have the peace and quiet to relax after all they have been thru'.
I understand the old Air Force base in Denver is being considered too and it is right in the city. Not concentration camps at all.
Where are these folks supposed to go? They're exhausted, stressed and probably in shock. They need a place they can feel is their own space. A

[edit on 12-9-2005 by Alikospah]

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Sure, let's put them on a military base and let them wander wherever they want to. Anyone that has ever grown up on a military base knows that there are certain areas you DO NOT GO. If you didn't grow up on a base you aren't going to know where you can and can't go so you put law enforcement, and you give them certain areas it's safe for them to be at where they aren't going to disrupt base operations. It's that simple.

///////////

From what I have seen on many military bases, the military is very clear about putting up big signs telling you you are not allowed. The bigger the sign, the more forbidden the place. Yearly I violate that policy by climbing thru' a wire fence to get to my favorite catnip patch that until a few years ago was owned by a rancher. There's nothing there of a sensitive nature but I'm sure if they caught me I would be thoroughly intimidated and scolded but so far, no one "guards" it and it is on a, thus far, public road. I am going to have to locate a new catnip patch tho'. No sense in pushing my luck even if I am a harmless old lady picking catnip for my kitty cat. A

[edit on 12-9-2005 by Alikospah]

We were at a military base in California one time, and drove around this road that went past the end of the runway. At the end of it there was a great museum, so we stopped. The guys at the museum couldn't figure out how we got there, because the gate was closed. While we were talking to the Security Police came around and asked if we had driven around the perimeter road. When we replied yes, they told us that was a restricted road, and there were signs posted not to drive it. We never saw ONE sign saying not to drive that road at any point. The road simply went from paved, to a dirt road. There ARE areas on base where either the signs have come down, or are defaced, or simply not posted because the people living on base KNOW not to go there. For someone who has never been on the base, they wouldn't know that it's a restricted area and they might just wander into there.

Originally posted by porkchop1969
Asigning them with identification numbers??

What on earth do you think Social Security and Driver's License numbers are? How about Passports? Bank numbers? Credit card numbers? For that matter, how do you expect these people to get the last two without at least one, preferably both, of the first two?

Originally posted by porkchop1969
Controling basic aspects of their daily lives...food, income, clothing, medical care, housing, schooling, ability to travel, etc.????

* Food, clothing: They have none. Right now, how are they supposed to be in charge of their own? Food and clothing has to be gotten to them in some fashion; allowing them to receive such in a place that also lets them recouperate seems to be a humane thing and not to be argued with. Do you really think the government intends to continue feeding and clothing these people indefinately?

* Medical care: How else do you expect them to get it? Right now, a friend of mine can't afford to go to the doctor and go out to eat both in the same month, because either one of them would eat up the whole $50 she has in monthly discretionary income. And yet, at that - she has more income than these people do. If the government does not pay for them to get treatment after they have been in the conditions we have seen repeatedly reported, then how will they get it? Unless you believe unencombered death is a better option, I'm not seeing how you can claim this a bad thing.

Which leads to:

* Income, housing: They have to get it. Which means they need food and water so that they may recover from the illness and dehydration that the medical treatment is taking care of. Then they need clothing so they can go out and interview at jobs and look at apartments.

* Schooling: Last I checked, the government mandated school for everyone under the age of 16, so I fail to see how this has changed anything, save where they are going to school. And for that, you have to look at the damage done to New Orleans - even if little Suzie and Jimmy normally go to Catholic school, I sincerely doubt that Sister Mary Elizabeth is up for giving lessons today, since the school and church are under water.

Finally,

* Ability to travel: People have said repeatedly that in any of the bases that are close or in populated centers, such as the one you specifically mentioned would be, there would be arrangements made for transportation. Beyond that, what do you want? The same would have to be true no matter where they were put, no matter who was sponsoring them. If they were in my house, arrangements would have to be made for transportation, because not only do I not have a spare car for guests, but these people often do not have driver's licenses. Which leads, incidentally, back to the first point about ID.


[edit on 12-9-2005 by M_Cat]

dI'd like to know where those folks are going to find work here. Its not very practical with the bitter cold months ahead and extremely expensive!!!

Why send them to this bitter cold climate? And to a place where there arent many year-round jobs? Where it costs at least 2,000/month to rent a 3 bedroom home? An apartment is the same?

Its only practical if they will be in the barracks indefinately, i guess. I wonder what the plans are? I'm afraid for those poor people.

Calm down people.

#1 I PERSONALLY know at least 6 people there right now as I type this helping those people.

#2 Otis AFB, AKA Edwards, is one of the bases slated for closure. Its a wonderful use for a base that will be closed in the near future. Many hundreds of clean rooms, kitchens, medical facilities as well as recreational resources are right there at the base. Trust me, I have been there.

#3 Did you guys know that the volunteers are nearly out numbering the evacuee's right now?

This isn’t exactly a "concentration" camp type of environment now is it?

Have we all become so conspiracy infused that we cannot just accept that these people have just been sent to the most appropriate place?

This is a non story guys, move along...move along.