I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp

There is an interesting thread where an ex Airforce Vet who was trained in disaster relief deployment discusses why deployment didn't happen for four days: Another possibility

She gives some pretty detailed info on what she was trained to do and indicated that disaster relief vehicles and resources were in place close by and could've been easily and quickly deployed to provide relief to the victims, so the excuses on why there was a four day delay in providing disaster relief just don't cut it. I wonder... If the powerplant in N.O. became flooded, wouldn't that introduce "toxins" into the flood waters, causing anyone exposed to the water to be exposed to radiation?

Originally posted by BaastetNoir

While everyone worries about roo for the Katrina victims, I cant stop thinking that Joel Olstein for example amongst many other TV preachers have gigantic Churches and could very well open them to the victims... of course that would imply loosing a couple of weekend donations....

Originally posted by BaastetNoir

While everyone worries about roo for the Katrina victims, I cant stop thinking that Joel Olstein for example amongst many other TV preachers have gigantic Churches and could very well open them to the victims... of course that would imply loosing a couple of weekend donations....

What you have to remember about Joel Osteen and his ilk is that helping hurricane victims in an organized church way does not correspond to his positive Christianity outlook of the rich christian life. The obvious class distinctions of his message and his blatant appeals for material greed as the reward for being a good christian does not contrast well with the obvious need of the evacuees.Since the class he is trying to endear himself to with the old Gospel of Wealth message have a low tolerance for bad circumstances, it is not profitable for him to help these people. Contrast what Jesus himself says in the Gospel in the Synagouge of Nazerath with this man's pandering to the rich and the rich want-to-be's.

Val is not alone, seems to be the same here too:

"DISASTER GROUPIE

In flood of helping, don’t forget local needs

Colorado Springs recently received its first contingent of exhausted, shellshocked Katrina evacuees. I went down to the Red Cross disaster relief headquarters with a basket of clothing, and to offer pedicures to the weary women from New Orleans. But I was met at the door by a uniformed police officer guarding access to the evacuees."

www.gazette.com...

I found this on google news

bellaciao.org...

I didnt read this entire thread, but I imagine someone from here wrote it.

The link above in Mirlin's post. It is a lot of info, the gal doing it is posting as she discovers stuff and having a few problems. That said, her thesis could explain a lot of what Val saw/was told at Falls Creek.

Even before I got to that thread, I didn't find the Falls Creek story all that alarming. The medical personell in blue jumpsuits would eventually have included nurses and doctors trained for this kind of thing. Overloading the emergency rooms of nearby Oklahoma towns would have created a much worse problem.

FEMA has to "outsource" some of the work. I really don't see that the State of Oklahoma's response and preparation has been out of line for what the needs, problems and available resources are likely to be. If anything, they seem to have done a pretty good job of having secured living quarters for that number of people and the fire trucks, ambulances, etc ready and waiting. Having lived with too little police protection, the evacuees might just be very happy to have the extras.

On top of the medical concerns, including the exposure to the toxic waters, there will be many psychological issues. In addition to depression, it is extremely difficult to gauge what kinds of PTSD reactions will start to surface as time elapses. If these people are from the thousands stranded in NO, not those who evacuated before the storm, they probably had inadequate health care going into this.

Could a summer camp that has heating, out of an urban area and away from a lot of TV, actually be better for people who need to decompress and pull themselves together? Part of the success of Outward Bound and similar wilderness experiences is due to the healing capacity of mother nature - even for urbanites.

Perhaps the camp command doesn't have the capacity to take 1000 + people to local churches. Um, do the Church members who camp there go to the local churches or have services right where they are?

As far as self-deployment in standard disaster situations, it can be a real problem. Even if you have some training, the incidence of well intended rescuers becoming victims is too high. Since this was far in excess of a standard disaster and the Federal response was not happening, a lot of people went on in. In the case of places like Falls Creek, the potential for a few nuts to create significant problems is the adult version of the idiots who had to put their chewing gum under the desks in grade school. And far more dangerous.

The requests for people to bring donated items to central distribution areas saves the trouble of having to
take the donated clothes, etc back to the women who volunteer their time to check them. And sometimes cash is needed - to pay for gas, electricity, unusual needs, food.

It seems very likely that some of the initial precautions will be relaxed once people have been medically checked out and settled in. If they haven't given up on the site altogether, it will have plenty of scrutiny.

I have debated about bringing up what may seem trivial. To me, it is a part of American culture that is very confused. Given all the posts ending with "Pop Tarts are NOT junk food" I have to comment.
Maybe it is the definition of junk food that is the problem. Having studied nutrition for 40 years and been in health care for almost 30 (RN), this is frankly an enormous problem that we are paying for in health care costs. And it is only going to get worse.

I went to the aisle with pop tarts yesterday to check the contents - in case they had improved. I only looked at the ones without the frosting. Pop Tarts have calories and a few vitamins from the "enriched" white flour. The calories are from simple carbohydrates and fats. The fat is partially hydrogenated and pop tarts have negligible fiber or protein. The simple carbs drive blood sugar up very rapidly requiring the pancreas to dump a lot of insulin in the blood. After enough years of doing this, you are very likely to become a diabetic. A healthy snack -or meal- is low in simple carbs ( fresh fruit excepted), has a balance of carbs, fats and protein, plus fiber and naturally occuring vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients. A high quality daily vitamin/mineral supplement is now advocated by most nutritionists and doctors.

Want to talk conspiracy? Do you pay attention to the food industry commercials? The one I can't believe is the gal watching a basketball game with her box of Cheese Its. In the dark background you see headlights and her husband enters as she frantically changes the channel to a tear jerker movie, hides the crackers and picks up a kleenix. Hubby decides to go upstairs to watch the game and she waits for him to be out of earshot to change the channel and bring out the cracker box while the voiceover says to "Get your own box" So, instead of sharing the game together and sharing the box; the couple should practice deception so they can have their own box of junk food?

I would certainly hope that the people in the camps could eventually be allowed to do some cooking - especially what are called "comfort foods". It would also be beneficial for their mental health and some of it could be in the Red Cross or Salvation Army food prep centers.. Teaching their secrets of LA cooking would be another boost to their sanity. These things can be worked out - when they have absorbed the initial shock and are up to the daily grind of fixing meals.

While I have concerns about government secrecy, taken to major excess by this administration, I still try to look at a situation believing that people operate out of good intentions and are usually willing to correct mistakes if not put on the defensive.

oh boy i really have to re-read this

Have we determined that all prisoners have been accounted for in NO?
It appears that up here in the northeast, the evacuees are being called detainees by some groups in the military.

When Bush asked for everyone in NO to please be identified and he used the $2000 card as an incentive, I wondered if that was part of a cover-up operation to flush out some released fugitives.

Any thoughts on this? (note, this is not a hijack attempt)

Actually one of the earlier criticisms that Sen Landrieau responded to was the effort expended to shackle all the prisoners in the city/county jail. It seems to me the guards, police and sheriffs had to get them thru some flooded areas to the overpass where they were picked up and sent to other jails. (Remember a picture of a bunch of people in orange jumpsuits on the pavement?)

No they couldn't leave them there. The jail also had no water, food or electricity. The guards were in danger of having an uprising. They certainly did not release them - there was never an option of putting them out in that city. One of the ripple effects of this is absorbing these prisoners and about 75 juveniles was the over-crowding in the other state facilities.

Also reported on a law school blog from a Baton Rouge lawyer is the total mess of the legal system due to the lawyers and clients being displaced and many files (stored in basements) being underwater.

I wonder if the detainees the military is referring to are the looters who have been arrested?

Just a follow up on some previous comments and my nutrition digression.

Ask prison guards if they want the meals cut back and made unappetizing. You will get a loud NO.
There are few ways to pacify people you are keeping under lockdown. Food is one of the easier ones.

As far as overall behavior, good nutrition helps.

A double blind study at one prison showed that when they were given a balanced diet and limited junk food, their behavior was not as uncontrolled or violent.

Which could be why the Falls Creek people felt it was reasonable to offer healthy food choices first.

This is like one injustice after the next for these people. Not even telling them where they are headed, these poor people have been treated like dogs throughout this entire horrific event.

Other camps throughout the states:

forums.newslookup.com...

Merlin, Do you think it would be alright for me to post an new thread with all info. I have regarding the actual non-call to active duty troops. I would be interested to post up my letter to congress (I removed it from the last thread) as well as some info. regarding what I know about specifics on who WASN'T called in (active duty) based on conversations I've had to friends who are active duty military in surrounding states. If it isn't against rules here, I might post up a new thread with all of the information regarding this because I keep having trouble with a lot of the false information that has been provided by the media about who is to blame and false info. about the way the military was called into action (or non-action).

I think I'll be able to clear up some things for people. I get fustrated by this everyday because it is all I've heard about on the media about the National Guard. All of it is a bunch of hooey and any of the top commanders I've heard (one) try to dispute anything, he was working for the military and clearly lying out of his teeth because anyone who was active duty specifically in the field of AFSOC Air Force Special Operations Command should know exactly what was available that wasn't called upon.

Tomorrow I'll gather this all up and I'll also keep it as clear and short as possible. I also have a friend working for the _ _ _ _hotline right now (fill in the blank), I have some second hand gossip to share as well. Overall I just want to make some things clear to anyone who questions the military structure and call to action. Any military person that wants to challenge me on this and keep supporting this liar knows far too well that the only people responsible (beyond just the State's responsibility) for the in-action or lag in military deployment were Rumsfeld and Bush. This is no question, Bush is the Commander in Chief of the military. I'll share this all in a new thread maybe in a Q & A style as to clear up a lot of the Questions I hear everyday about the deployment of troops. The media did a good disservice to the country in passing on false military information about the way "things work", to the general public. Everyday this fustrates me beyond belief. I think I can answer a lot of questions people have and I'll also share some thoughts directly from members of active duty military in an anonymous way, all who are quite PO'ed but don't have the outlet to pass this expression along to the general public.

I also disclose absolutely no information that is "secret" per say, but just some common knowledge that anyone can find on a website such as military.com or about.com about the ways of the military.

I'd also like to point out some MAJOR issues about the base closure list that is now back in Bush and Rumsfelds hands. I have a whole BOOK of information that I'll give you the cliff notes on about this topic.

All while this whole country is fighting about who is to blame, if you knew the details of what Bush has been doing since right after 9/11 with this base closure list and now even while this Katrina event has unfolded before us, you will 100% be in understanding of who is to blame. Bush and Rumsfeld have been working on their base closure list for quiet some time. There are some GREAT bits of information about this you will like to hear.

Boy, maybe I should have been posting to this forum all along I've been screaming about these issues on the wrong sites for quiet some time. A place where no one cares (myspace), I've been yelling to some friends to start waking up to the truth and I've had some choice words for members on military.com as well.

I have a lot of stuff to post so I'll try to cut it all down into one clear and short post with links. Maybe I will just link up to my letters and to information I've been posting about the base closure list for quiet some time. A lot of these issues are coming together now, and if you look at the whole picture there is a lot of little tid bits that are important to everything that has taken place. The state has some blame yes, but if you were in my shoes you would find absolutely no way around this blame game to see who is at the most fault for the lack of in-action that took place.

Sorry I have a hard time expressing myself in a few short sentences, I keep getting points taken away for this but it is the only way I know how to communicate in written form I'll compose everything offline and then upload it into a new thread tomorrow. I think I have some things that might clear up a lot of questions for people. My post questioning nuclear contamination is all over the place but it has taken me a while to get to where I'm at today in my thought process, so trying to get others to jump into where I'm at now might take some winded posts. I'll fix this with a new thread post tomorrow, it's going to take a bit but once I get it all together it might make more sense for some.



[edit on 19-9-2005 by XGovGirl]

[edit on 19-9-2005 by XGovGirl]

"Refugees from New Orleans behind barbed wire in Utah"
twolostmoons.com...


No doubt about it, this is just the begining, FEMA is just waiting for a nuke or something bigger and they are going round everyone in the cities, not that I care much seeing how I live in a rural area near the State National Guard Training Facility

This thread seems quite, so I thought I'd post some ancillary information related to evacuees in shelters across the US as of September 20, 2005.

Hurricane Katrina Victims in Shelters

About 88,500 Hurricane Katrina refugees are in shelters in 25 states and Washington, D.C., according to the Red Cross and state officials.

LOUISIANA: 59,392 in 321 shelters
TEXAS: Estimated 16,000
MISSISSIPPI: 5,785 in 103 shelters
ARKANSAS: 1,750 in shelters
OKLAHOMA: 1,076 in three shelters
GEORGIA: 597
TENNESSEE: 571 in 10 shelters
ALABAMA: 535 in 25 shelters
COLORADO: 427 in one shelter
ILLINOIS: 341 in five shelters
FLORIDA: 308 in two shelters
WISCONSIN: 229 at one shelter
MASSACHUSETTS: 203 at Camp Edwards
RHODE ISLAND: 186 in a Navy housing complex in Middletown
WEST VIRGINIA: 185 at National Guard Camp Dawson
UTAH: 171 at Utah Army National Guard Camp Williams
SOUTH CAROLINA: 150 in one shelter
NORTH CAROLINA: 143
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: 134 in one Red Cross shelter
PENNSYLVANIA: 103 in at least two shelters
MICHIGAN: 83 at Fort Custer Training Center
ARIZONA: 76 in one shelter
CALIFORNIA: 39 at one shelter
OHIO: 28 at Rickenbacker Air National Guard base
INDIANA: 17 at the Indiana State Fairgrounds
MISSOURI: Fewer than 15 in shelters

My aunt just came up from Texas, and has given me independant confirmation of Val's observations.

My aunt lives in Gordonville, Texas, three miles from the OK border. She is a Southern Baptist. Her church also once occupied a part of this camp. They were asking for help and volunteers to give their time and donations to help the refugees that would be coming in. My aunt, who is not in the best physical health, still donated money and time. She crocheted a number of baby clothes, knowing that winter was coming soon and nice warm baby clothes would be in demand by many of the refugees.

She told me she was shocked, when the women who made the run up to the camp came back with the homemade clothing, saying it had been rejected by the authorities who told them not to bring private donations. My aunt also sent up a few cases of homeade jam, which were also rejected.

The jam, while it was perfectly healthy and edible, i might be able to understand, but not the rejection of the many sets of baby booties and baby jumpers, which were not simply second hand dirty cast offs, but brand new home crocheted clothing.

I asked her, when she returned home, to ask around her church regarding other things mentioned here. She promised she would, and her husband, a retired California sherriff, will also do some checking. I hope to report back with any new info to contribute, but its looking more and more like Vals observations were on the money.

Originally posted by Valhall
You don't understand the type of people that are about to come here...."

When I 1st read the above, I didn't know what the FEMA official meant. Then I read (see below) & now understand. I didn't read all 18 pages of this thread. Maybe it has been alluded to already.

An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the Welfare State by Robert Tracinski

What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face.

They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men. But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

This is the current situation:

Tuesday, 20 September 2005
by Bob Nigh
Managing Editor
Oklahoma Baptists breathed a unified sigh of disappointment Sept. 13 when Gov. Brad Henry and Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma Executive Director-Treasurer Anthony Jordan announced that evacuees from Hurricane Katrina would not be coming to Falls Creek after all.

During a press conference at the State Capitol, Henry said Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) officials had told him that few more evacuees would be assigned to Oklahoma.

“FEMA no longer wants to house evacuees in temporary shelters, but in long-term housing such as apartment complexes and some private homes,” Henry said. Henry and state emergency management officials told him any new evacuees who are transferred to Oklahoma will be housed at Camp Gruber, a facility near Muskogee that is caring for approximately 650 Hurricane Katrina victims. Because only small numbers are expected, authorities believed it would be better to provide care at one central location rather than open up a second major shelter. More article: "Falls Creek Stood Down." Follow link title Interested in Volunteering at Falls Creek? from this news site www.kfor.com...

This is very curious. Everybody was so excited when the announcement was made that Falls Creek would be used. A previous article on the news site: More hurricane evacuees expected at Falls Creek Sep 5, 2005, www.kfor.com...

More evacuees from Hurricane Katrina are expected to arrive in Oklahoma. Falls Creek, located near Davis, is expected to receive up to 3,000 evacuees sometime. They'll be arriving throughout the day."

Val provided photographs of some of the preparations for these people.

The BaptistMessanger.com site (follow the link from the kfor site so you know that the site is not a "game" site) states in its article "Plan to use Falls Creek to welcome ‘guests’ swiftly put into motion" that the guests were supposed to arrive Labor Day, September 5th.

From the informative interview with Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma Executive Director-Treasurer Anthony Jordan on the site, it is obvious this was a well-developed plan to greet and meet the Katrina evacuees as guests for the long haul. They were 1,800 volutneers strong and "5,000 buckets of blessings care packages were prepared by hand, and more 3,278 beds were made in less than 24 hours."

"Messenger: What was the plan to accomplish feeding 3,000 guests and volunteers at Falls Creek?

Jordan: Porter quickly called in disaster relief feeding trailers from Bryan and LeFlore associations and crews from those two areas, plus Sans Bois Association, to set up cooking/feeding operations. They had a well-organized, smoothly-running kitchen up and going by mid-day on Labor Day, and were ready to feed more than 5,000 people a day."

Messenger: What was your reaction when the decision was made to trim the volunteers to a skeleton crew on Tuesday and send most of them home in hopes of a call-back?

Jordan: We were disappointed, of course, because we were eagerly anticipating loving on our guests.

Messenger: Once the final decision to stand down came, a fully-prepared camp had to be “dismantled.” What’s going to happen to all of the supplies brought in?

Jordan: Oklahoma Baptists can rest assured that every item made ready to benefit our guests will be used. About 1,000 of the buckets of blessings already have been sent to Camp Gruber, where other evacuees are housed. The rest of the buckets will be sent to Belle Chasse, La., just outside New Orleans, where our disaster relief crews are now in operation.
All other items—bed linens, medical supplies, food items and clothing, etc.—will be either sent to hurricane victims at Camp Gruber or in Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama or placed in a central warehouse set up by Volunteer Organizations Active in Disasters (VOAD) in Oklahoma City. Many of our churches across the state are hosting evacuees. Those churches will be able to contact that warehouse soon to get items to benefit those families they are helping. I assure you, nothing will go to waste."

Now I'm surely in lot's of company wondering, why was the Falls Creek effort ordered to stand-down (isn't that an odd choice of words) when the Baptist Builders were incredible and Gov. Brad Henry even contacted Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma Executive Director-Treasurer Anthony Jordan and asked if the offer was genuine? Why was this canned September 13 which would've been several days after the Val inquisitive visit?

The Baptist Messenger quotes you reference go in-line with the statements made by Jordan at the public announcement by Gov. Henry about "standing down" Falls Creek as a location for evacuees. I can't help but notice that Jordan continued the "we want to love these people" statement many, many days after it is established (and it IS established) that no one but the 400 some odd "hosts" (and most likely Jordan and the SBC top brass) would be there to "welcome" them.

Letter from the Governor of Oklahoma
Tuesday, 20 September 2005
September 12, 2005
Dear Friends:

On behalf of the great State of Oklahoma, I want to offer my deepest, heartfelt thanks to the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma, all its member churches and Oklahoma Baptists everywhere for your recent mobilization to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

We Oklahomans are a special people: Devout, compassionate, generous and dedicated to improving the lives of those in need. In the midst of horrific devastation along the Gulf Coast, the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma immediately sprang into action, launching a relief effort in the storm-battered region and offering the use of Falls Creek for displaced hurricane victims.

I am so very proud of -- and thankful for -- Oklahoma’s Baptist community and the urgency with which it acted to help and minister to hurricane victims who had lost everything in this nearly incomprehensible tragedy. While the conflicting signals from FEMA over the past two weeks regarding the use of Falls Creek were surely frustrating, your commitment and compassion did not waver.

Through this challenging time, you have worked to make a real and lasting difference in the lives of hurricane victims. Your good works reflect the decency of Oklahoma and are a testament to the deep and abiding love of Christ.

God bless all,

Brad Henry
Governor

Available on www.bgco.org site.

This is for informational purposes. My opinion is being formulated as I discover the details of this situation that changed within a span of some mere 7 days, going from FEMA's ok let the evacuees go to Falls Creek to FEMA's no the evacuees can't go there.

Hi all

I don't often post, but I feel it's very warranted in this case. First Val you rock!!! In these times it's nice to see someone who, through their actions, embodies the finer attributes of the human race...WELL DONE!!!

Secondly, as much as we all, I think, wanted answers to the broader question raised by Val and the rest of the intrepid ATS crew, we shouldn't be disappointed that now we know answers won't be coming, because whatever was being planned for that place did not take place because of this exposure and that is to be commended.

Originally posted by menes
Henry and state emergency management officials told him any new evacuees who are transferred to Oklahoma will be housed at Camp Gruber, a facility near Muskogee that is caring for approximately 650 Hurricane Katrina victims.
...............

Jordan: Oklahoma Baptists can rest assured that every item made ready to benefit our guests will be used. About 1,000 of the buckets of blessings already have been sent to Camp Gruber, where other evacuees are housed.

so, are all the 'guests' of camp gruber to be treated as children or are they deliberately trying to start a riot ??