The End of Political Baiting and Sniping on ATS (was ALL MEMBERS READ)

Oh, sure, demand that the Creator be barred from the site!

I'll tell you one thing, if I see one more "What color is God's eyes?" type threads pop up in the CONSPIRACIES in religion forum, I'm going to run rampant with a flame-thrower!

Well, the religous stuff so far hasnt been too bad, nowhere near the level the politics went, I had no idea it really bothered people that badly, but now i know what they mean and im purposely avoiding politics hehe.

Majic
"This business of certain members testing the waters by seeing how far they can push things is a warnable behavior, as Springer has indicated"

You know I'm not sure why there is a consistant posture by your posts flaming members. You know, this whole affair is getting around the neighborhood, outside of ATS and it's difficult to defend ATS when statements like the above and "Barn Clearing of Turds" here are spoken and directed against Members.

Seems to me when you open your thoughts up in the above manner you should expect member criticism. ATS-C or not.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas
You know I'm not sure why there is a consistant posture by your posts flaming members.

He is doing no such thing. He is warning members that they shouldnt push the envelope with the staff because they are sick and tired of the political mud slinging. If you do keep pushing the staff then you will get warned and banned - simple. He isnt threatening or flaming any one.

Originally posted by Dallas
You know, this whole affair is getting around the neighborhood, outside of ATS and it's difficult to defend ATS when statements like the above and "Barn Clearing of Turds" here are spoken and directed against Members.

Getting out of the neighbourhood? Why would that be a problem? Show me a forum that would allow this kind of behaviour and I show you a forum not worth going to.

Originally posted by Dallas
Seems to me when you open your thoughts up in the above manner you should expect member criticism. ATS-C or not.

Whats your criticism then? That he's flaming people? I dont see how you are right in that criticism.

Its been said before that the people that seem to be having a hard time understanding this very simple and widely accepted policy is the people its designed to target.

Why target people at all ? Seems to me that is where this thread is headed and why? As I said before I can understand the motive in terms of political bashing. Seems reasonable. What does'nt seem so reasonable is the inference of setting up a sting. And doing it with needles and pins.

My quote stands for its own criticism in that its obvious the motive may be based the past comments and not future enforcement. I also take issue this thread is designed to bring out members You feel are in jeopardy.

I had thought page two or three of this thread would clear up most questions. It Cost Nothing To Be Nice.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas
Why target people at all?

People get themselves targeted when they breach this new policy. But there are no vendettas being pursued here I can assure you. Everyone has a clean slate and if you refrain from the described activities you wont even notice this new policy.

Originally posted by Dallas
Seems to me that is where this thread is headed and why? As I said before I can understand the motive in terms of political bashing. Seems reasonable. What does'nt seem so reasonable is the inference of setting up a sting. And doing it with needles and pins.

I didnt get that impression from the thread. What I do see is the staff allowing the discussion of this new policy so as to avert bigger problems down the line. No one can say this policy is unjustified now and no one can claim ignorance of it either. We've all had our say on the matter and if people dont accept it then they will be in for warns.

This is a private site and what the staff says goes. Its not a democratic country and the right to free speech here extends to what the staff allow. That doesnt mean they are out to become thought police though. The staff have designed this policy to BENEFIT freedom of speech. This new policy will facilitate the vast majority of members to express their ideas and thoughts without fear of being bombarded with partisan rubbish.

Originally posted by Dallas
My quote stands for its own criticism in that its obvious the motive may be based the past comments and not future enforcement. I also take issue this thread is designed to bring out members You feel are in jeopardy.

This thread is an explanation of policy and a warning to those who would flout it. To my knowledge, no one is being punished for breaking this new policy for posts they wrote prior to it. I've seen the complaints forum and there hasnt been a single case of attention drawn to posts made before this new policy came into effect.

Thats not to say, however, that if you've been known as a major partisanista in the past and you continue to flout this policy that you will be treated as a previously neutral member. But again, the choice is everyones, dont post partisan labels and rubbish and dont hijack threads with it and you'll be safe as houses.

Originally posted by Dallas
I had thought page two or three of this thread would clear up most questions. It Cost Nothing To Be Nice.

I think the staff is being overly generous with allowing this thread to continue. They are doing it so that the issue can be exhaustively discussed and hence understood and clarified. The policy wont change but peoples understanding, via this thread, will.

Warnings are just that, warnings. They arent meant to be nasty because they are designed to stop you from getting into a nasty situation. That the warnings are being given is proof that the staff dont WANT to have to ban people but they will if need be.

Originally posted by Springer
Here's the worst part, it's a grand total of less than
TWENTY members who are causing 99% of the problem!

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Well, the religous stuff so far hasnt been too bad,
nowhere near the level the politics went,

You haven't been hanging out in the Religion Forum
in BTS. UGH. It has been used as a personal
dumping ground for anti-any-religion-but-mine.
Jack Chick tract type information is used as 'proof'.
Pathetic ignorant bigotry at it's worst.

(I have come to hate religion forums. I have posted
at 6 different sites and the religion forum ALWAYS
becomes a dumping ground for anti-any-religion-
but-mine).

I know from personal experance from my responce to post that I was blasted because my idea's and or feelings on a subject where making others who had different opinions of the subject engrossed is silenceing me with hate and name calling. Yet I think that was ok , as others who saw there posts in reply to mine can make there own judgements. Sometimes people are so into what they believe they feel that they are correct no matter if they are or are not. Is it not nice to have freedom of speech and the discearnment to discearn what is true and untrue.

[edit on 8/22/2005 by zman]

It would seem and I have already taken the time to complain about it, other than Springer and SkepticOverlord who came accross as straight forward and fair, Moderators here at ATS and their reps want to play this is their show and what they say gos. eg:

If we don't like you, you go. If you say something we don't like you go. If you disagree and complain then don't make any errors or you go. The rules here are what we want (adjustable to meet Mod needs)- dont like it then go.

If you post a good thread it can dissapear even when you ask where it went and why, get the hint - go. If we change the tiltle your thread cause we like ours better and you don't like it you can go. If we target you for sticking up for the little guys (Members) we'll catch you on one of the above and you will be gone. etc...

Personally I did not want to create a big monster out of an important announcement. But as one reads into the posts accross this thread you get the idea there is something deeper. I can slap you and your character but we'll all come after you if protest that action.

Political bashing and intolerence of this activity in future was where I thought it was left.

But it isn't is it. Let's be clear, Moderators throwing virtual punches at any Members in open forum really should go. Coucilors should be helping Members and not slamming them. Some are obviously not going to go for re election.

Dallas

"it costs nothing to be nice" Dallas

The rules are here for us all to abide to. If we dont like it, then we can always leave, but in the same breath, the Mods who are in charge of upholding the rules, are still under the same obligations as the rest of us.

Originally posted by Bikereddie
The rules are here for us all to abide to. If we dont like it, then we can always leave, but in the same breath, the Mods who are in charge of upholding the rules, are still under the same obligations as the rest of us.

I agree with you there. Unfortunately though there have been times where a Mod (or 2) seem to feel that they are not subject to the rules. I have even received a response from one that legitimized their rule breaking by saying that single jabs at a member were okay.
Overall though I have to agree with the new rules as long as all are made to follow them!

Originally posted by Dallas

Moderators here at ATS and their reps want to play this is their show and what they say gos. eg:

If we don't like you, you go. If you say something we don't like you go. If you disagree and complain then don't make any errors or you go. The rules here are what we want (adjustable to meet Mod needs)- dont like it then go.

Dallas

"it costs nothing to be nice" Dallas

I am quoting a bit of this to illustrate how far out of whack the opinions of my original post can get... (nothing against you Dallas I know you are trying to illustrate your point, just like I am)

The above statements, if they are what people are thinking, are utterly unfounded and NOT the views of the admin PERIOD.

I guarentee you there is not a SINGLE Moderator who thinks this way. If a Mod ever acted that way he/she would be lambasted in the Mod only forum and most likely de-modded.

For crying OUT LOUD people. This is a SIMLPLE matter of MANNERS, of NOT hi jacking threads or baiting for baiting's sake.

There is in NO WAY that moderation of THOUGHTS, Perspectives or OPINIONS has changed IN ANY WAY.

I've said this until I am Blue in the face...

Political Hacks/Baiters are on notice that their behavior will NOT be tolerated GOING FORWARD. Read my original post for what constitutes political hacking.

That's the ONLY thing the "strict enforcement" applies to.

People who can't grasp that and continue to to take threads off topic to promote their own political agenda or attack someone else's are welcome to go elsewhere. It is our hope that these folks will see what's been happening, start "flying right" and continue to be a member in the spirit of collaberation, ignorance denial and discovery of the real truth.

Springer...

I may have been guilty in the past of manners that's been mentioned, but not intentionally.

I'll be more aware of my responses in the future.

Thanks Springer.

Those of us who have acted unrully in the past will now behave.

Those of us who continuosly aggravate things on this board will stop.

Those of us who troll will go troll somewhere else.

What in the world is so difficult about all this?

I also opt for a more peaceful community. I would like to bring up the fact that the very people i joke with and make remarks to are friends of mine. We love each other and are on friendly terms. I find that those with my opposing views are the people i like best!!!

I wasnt going to post anything here as i do not like threads like these, but i wanted to clear my name of any perceived "criminal activities"

Great job, Springer.

Afterthought: They're laughing at us? I dare any other board, conspiracy or otherwise to have as much love for each other as we do.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, world. ATS is very special.


I love you all.

[edit on 22-8-2005 by dgtempe]

Please, Don't Throw Me in That Briar Patch Over There!

Originally posted by Dallas
Seems to me when you open your thoughts up in the above manner you should expect member criticism. ATS-C or not.

I welcome it enthusiastically, cheerfully, with a song in my heart, ATS-C or not.

Criticize away! I love it when people talk about me. I'm a shameless drama queen after all -- and one of ATS's most notorious trolls.

I have been criticized often on ATS, and have learned from it. Much of the criticism I have received has been honest and helpful, and has truly helped me to become a better person (when I listen to it).

Some of it is less than honest or helpful, but I learn from that too.

Yes, I expect criticism for taking such a dramatic and vocal position on this matter. No, I don't mind it at all or I wouldn't be pushing the issue.

And for those who might be wondering, I see this as part of my job as a liaison between members and staff, though I wouldn't feel or act any differently if I wasn't a Councilor.

This problem the staff is addressing is a major concern for all members, because it directly impacts our quality of life as a community.

Councilor's Bluff

As for being a Councilor, the only powers I have are to applaud good posts and alert the staff to T&C violations. I also get access to the Complaints forum and forums used for discussions with the senior staff.

If you or anyone else feels somehow intimidated by me being a Councilor, I'm truly sorry about the misperception, because it's incredibly wrong.

I serve at your sufferance. You may vote for me or not. I am answerable to you and all members. I have no moderator or administrative authority.

No one in the Council is in a position to tell members what to do, only give advice, like I'm doing here.

And as loudmouthed as I tend to be, I'm listening.

Don't worry, it's still okay to voice your honest opinions here. That's not subject to change, and if it were to change, I'd probably be out the door before you were.

Just don't post insults, off-topic, obnoxious spam in ATS forums or otherwise flagrantly violate the T&C and you have nothing to worry about.

Honest.

Unfair Warning

Originally posted by Dallas
I also take issue this thread is designed to bring out members You feel are in jeopardy.

Why? The purpose of the thread is to inform members of an official ATS policy regarding posting in the forums.

What's wrong with that? Should the staff not inform members of this?

As for this being a “sting”, where's the deception? Springer announced the policy in no uncertain terms. He said the staff would enforce this policy, and they are. It's 100% true.

How is that a “sting”?

Property Values

Originally posted by Dallas
If we don't like you, you go. If you say something we don't like you go. If you disagree and complain then don't make any errors or you go. The rules here are what we want (adjustable to meet Mod needs)- dont like it then go.

Some of this is utterly false, but let's go with it just for fun.

When in doubt, it's a good idea to remember what ATS is: a privately-owned website with a well-publicized agenda.

Assumptions that ATS is some sort of publicly-owned utility, government service to netizens or democratic institution are all false assumptions.

This site is privately owned and will be run as the owners see fit. Period. The matter is non-negotiable.

You wouldn't give away your home to any yabo who demanded control of it, and the ATS ownership is not going to give away their website to any yabo who demands control of it.

Contract Disputes

The staff of ATS has defined activities it considers unacceptable. They have been quite clear about what those activities are and what will be done about them.

Their list is not the same as the list you posted here. You might want to read it again and clear up your apparent confusion, since you agreed to read it and respect it. The staff will not be referring to your list for guidance.

If you CAN'T live with these restrictions, then yes, please leave, leave now, and stop needlessly bothering people.

The terms you agree to honor by being here are not optional. They are mandatory and your compliance with them is a requirement for your continued membership here.

Can't do it? Then please, don't go away angry, just go away.

Operators Are Standing By

If you CAN live with these restrictions but are having trouble with them, it's okay. The staff is committed to helping you, and have repeatedly shown a preference for friendly advice over warns and bans.

It's also okay to disagree with the T&C and propose alternatives, as long as you don't violate the T&C in the process.

Springer has laid down the law here, for example -- and make no mistake, the law is binding -- but he's still willing to allow people to discuss it, pro or con.

The ATS staff are amazingly open to differing opinions. That doesn't mean they will agree with every differing opinion that comes along, but they are willing to listen.

Well, to a point anyway. No one should have to listen to the same old crap over and over again, including the staff, though that's usually what they are expected to do by every self-righteous firebrand who comes along (including me, now and then).

If you were to see what I have witnessed behind the scenes, you would never badmouth the staff.

Without being specific, I can attest that they keep an eye on one another, and when someone screws up, it gets dealt with. Moderators are much less forgiving about mistakes made by moderators than mistakes made by members, though they try to be reasonable about it.

They aren't perfect. They make mistakes. But they are honest enough to admit it and try to make things right when it happens.

They have earned my undying respect, because these people are golden.

Target Acquisition

Originally posted by Dallas
Why target people at all ?

To the extent members are “targeted”, it is for their misbehavior, and nothing else.

More accurately, the ATS staff has targeted the misbehavior itself, not members. If you get a warning, it's for something you did, not who you are.

I have never, EVER seen anyone become the subject of disciplinary action on ATS for anything other than misbehavior, and I've been watching carefully.

Some members resent being prohibited from acting like jackasses, and feel compelled to constantly test the limits of what they can get away with. They often lose track of the fact that those limits are defined by the staff, who are also the final judges of when someone crosses the line.

Those members (commonly labeled “trolls”, although there's far more to trolldom than that) become “targets” because they have made themselves targets.

Moreover, they are only “targets” while they continue waging war against the staff. When they stop, things invariably improve.

All We Are Saying

If you are fighting the staff at every turn, then stop fighting.

The staff does not randomly target members for punishment. Problem members identify themselves as troublemakers and step forward voluntarily. No effort on the part of the staff is required.

If you think you are being personally “targeted” by the staff, you might want to take an honest look at why that is.

The honest answer may not be flattering, but knowing it won't just make your time on ATS more pleasant, it will probably make the rest of your life more enjoyable, too. Heck, it might just make the world a better place.

There is no good reason to come here and pick fights with the staff and membership of ATS, only a lot of bad ones.

Give peace a chance. It's always there for you if you choose to embrace it.



[edit on 8/22/2005 by Majic]

Originally posted by Majic
I have been criticized often on ATS, and have learned from it.

And yet, I'll warrant, ne'er hast thou been christened "succinct".





j/k j/k You know I luvs ya Majic.

Tarzan, Tonto, Frankenstein and... Majic?

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
And yet, I'll warrant, ne'er hast thou been christened "succinct".

No, no, not a lot of one-liner warns in my permanent record.

Let me elaborate on that...

Subject: Now bickering about bickering (or the hijacking happened before anyone got here)


When the devote followers of the mainscream media and non-believers who at least realize that they are being lied to and therefore assume the anti-thesis must be correct clash, what do you expect, civility? Nearly the entire population has been hijacked by the longitudinal thinking that runs from communism to fascism before they ever visit an online forum. With John Kerry barely to the right of that son of a Bush, guess which end we are at today. At least howling by Demobrats on online forums balances out the Anglo-Saxon Tory Baptist Jack-booted thugs of Propaganda Corp., the loudmouths of Cant Channel Miscommunications which fogs the airwaves, and the Benzedrine-intoxicated Irish Catholics at Genocidal Errorists (CNBC, MSNBC, and NBC are owned by General Electric).

How many people voted against the two miscreants? If official sadistics are to be believed, only 13 people in Cuyahoga County and 186 people in Ohio, the Mississippi of 21st century voted for Cobb/LaMarche. They would only need 33.4 percent to win a close election. Throw in Badnarik/Campagna and one of the two alternatives could win with 25.1 percent.

And by the way, what the “liberals” say about neo-cons and vice versa—it is all true, except I'd add that neo-cons (imperialistic royal libertarians as opposed to real libertarians) are the worst traitors we have right now, if only because they've got the power.

Are you a Real Libertarian, or a. ROYAL Libertarian? by Dan Sullivan
geolib.com...

[edit on 24-8-2005 by autumnofburnoutcommie67]

Originally posted by autumnofburnoutcommie67
At least howling by Demobrats on online forums balances out the Anglo-Saxon Tory Baptist Jack-booted thugs of Propaganda Corp., the loudmouths of Cant Channel Miscommunications which fogs the airwaves, and the Benzedrine-intoxicated Irish Catholics at Genocidal Errorists (CNBC, MSNBC, and NBC are owned by General Electric).
[edit on 24-8-2005 by autumnofburnoutcommie67]

It's like a whole show around here, really, and this entire thread has been one of the most entertaining things I've read in a while. Remind me never to order pizza with you guys.

That being said, I really have to commend the above author for failing to notice the purpose of the thread in such a grandiose fashion.