Islam Denounces Terrorism

Originally posted by Nygdan
Your requirement is ridiculous and absurd.

- But nevertheless it has a superficial appeal (providing you don't think too much about it).

Which is how it is done.

This is the kind of rubbish the TV talk shows have been full of to cue up the people for the next phase of the war, Iran, huh?

I have been amazed at the speed with which the original talk of a war on Islam was back-tracked from (who recalls Bush and his "crusade" idiocy?) but is now being openly discussed in so many media outlets.

Even Robertson's call for a murder or kidnapping is hardly unusual if not quite typical of the current insanity.

Hey man, I shouldn't have to condem these idiotic and unamerican verbal attacks that some are making. They are merely a perversion of the true path.

Originally posted by Nygdan
How can other muslims 'control' these other muslims? They have magical powers or something? If the topic clerics in teh world condemmed terrorism, what woudl that accomplish? It would just make the violent masses that support it make someone else into a top cleric. Your requirement is ridiculous and absurd.

[edit on 26-8-2005 by Nygdan]

Well Nygan, then you must agree with the way the wets is handling it then: By killing them.

Nygan, if you had a nasty pit bull dog, and let it be nasty and take no measure to train it or subdue it, who's fault is it when it goes out and bites somebody? Yours or the dogs? Should you be upset if somebody shoots that dog in defense of themselves?

Bottom line: Muslims need to police themselves. The only way the west can defend itself from radical Islamic terrorists is to kill them. On the other hand, Islam as a whole has influence over the followers of the faith and can temper the extremists among them.

Until Islam decides to take REAL action against their own extremists, they (or anybody else) have no right to criticize the west for handling the situation as they see fit.


[edit on 26-8-2005 by skippytjc]

Originally posted by skippytjc
Well Nygan, then you must agree with the way the wets is handling it then: By killing them.

Sure. Hell, the US is being far too soft in Iraq as is. I suppose its best to try to soft touch and then, when it inevitiably fails, to use the iron fist. Kinda sucks for the guys that die before hand tho!

who's fault is it when it goes out and bites somebody? Yours or the dogs?

Mine, but we're talking about human beings, not dogs. Islamic moderates are simply not responsible for the actions of islamic extremists. Sure, they can take actions to deter extremism, and insofar as they should've taken action, they share some of the responsibility for the mess. Its only a very small portion of the responsibility tho. Its like saying that the US is responsible for the holocaust, for not having faught the nazis right off the bat or even for not having invaded weimar germany to prevent such an event. To an extent, its true. The US is partly responsible for that sort of stuff. With power comes responsibility. But there is a converse to that also. To have the responsibility, you must have the power. Who has the power in this situation? Moderate Councils of islamic clerics?? The average arab on the street? Simply put, no. The US has the real power, and the radical clerics and radical suporters have some of the power, and the local autocrats have power also. The autocrat situation however comes back to the US again, since the US more often than not starts out supporting these dictators (justifiably so, at the times, considering that things would be worse if the arabian penninsula and iraq were run by soviet satellites, or really radical islamist republics).

So no, muslims really don't have to make public statements against these things to prove their loyalty, no more than italians should have to burn pictures of the pope or any more than anyone should have to pass some non-legally required 'loyalty tests'. They don't have to, and yet, they are understanding enough to know that there is concern, and they do make these statements. And yet people seem to choose not to hear them and continue to question their loyalty. Very unpatriotic and unamerican, truly. But I'm not going to apologize for those actions from others.

Should you be upset if somebody shoots that dog in defense of themselves?

Of course not, everyone has the right to defend themselves. I'd be pretty upset if someone tried to kill me because the dog got loose and attacked them tho!

On the other hand, Islam as a whole has influence over the followers of the faith and can temper the extremists among them.

There is no such thing as 'islam as a whole'. The muslims are split into many different little sects. They have no central authorities. There is no possible way to have what you suggest. The moderates are constantly saying that savage murder and terrorism are wrong. The extremists disagree. There's not a heck of a lot the moderates can do about it, they're dictated to by people who rely on the extremists for support, or by leaders who are too fearful of the extremists. The fascist situation is precisely the same. The moderates in england can't really be said to be responsible for the fascist governments in germany, italy, and spain.

Until Islam decides to take REAL action against their own extremists, they (or anybody else) have no right to criticize the west for handling the situation as they see fit.

Of course people have a right to criticize how the west handles it. Thats the very nature of how the west operates, by taking in criticism and correcting itself when there are valid concerns raised and errors pointed out. Without criticism, the west is dysfunctional. True, there is a certian 'beam, mote, eye' issue here. But, agian, what are the moderates supposed to do about it? Raise an army? Immpossible and illegal. Riot and lynch extremists? Immpossible and illegal. Vote? Immpossible and illegal.

Originally posted by skippytjc
Bottom line: Muslims need to police themselves. The only way the west can defend itself from radical Islamic terrorists is to kill them. On the other hand, Islam as a whole has influence over the followers of the faith and can temper the extremists among them.
[edit on 26-8-2005 by skippytjc]

Easier said then done actually.
They are like so spilt up. Ideals, Sects,etc.

Come to think of it. I wonder sometimes how much "Influence" does mainstream Islam have over these Racial ones.

Originally posted by Heartagram
Yes, I believe the moderate muslims are indeed speaking out against the terrorist who called themselves the "real" muslims(which is, of course, BS). Though by just speaking out and denying those doing act of terrorism in the name of Islam wouldn't cut it. The muslim in the middle east are, in fact, uneducated.

Uneducated about the world, science, probably their native language and their own religion--ISLAM. So assume not that whatever these terrorist do, be it they're from middle east or anywhere, are justified in Islam.

Education makes the world go round. Radicalism is the result of assumption, hatred and pure stupidity.

St Udio, please go and research on the term "Jihad". Jihad does not only apply to war as in soldiers and bombs but it also applies to inner battle to fight greed, sloth, hunger or what have you.

You either agree with me or you have your own opinion(s). So do share with us! Enjoy~!

Very well said.

I believe its our job as a whole to fight evil.
As a Muslim I condemn terrorism in the name of my religion, but as someone pointed out earlier, is I don't apologise for it.
By apologising, I am accepting part of the blame, and I know that it was an attack on humanity.

I have always abided the law of the land.
A terrorist attack is an attack on humanity, it is not to be associated with Islam, even what some misguided individual says.

Skippy, I believe what you want, is for Muslims to change parts of our religion. That's not going to happen. We believe that the koran is the word of God, thats a grave insult to tell us to change the words of God.
Why does peace=pacification in this day and age?

Where one side can kill and bomb innocent civilians and one side can't.
Over 200,000 Iraqi civilians have now died as a result of this war.
The death toll is increasing daily.
These terrorists are also killing civilians, aswell as the US army acting on the orders of the extremists in the white house.

The truth is, no side should be allowed to kill innocent civilians.
By mistake or on purpose. If I kill someone by mistake I don't think its going to make a difference to his family.
Its not going to bring the dead back to life.

There is lack of education in Arab countries, and alot of poverty.
The illiteracy rate is something like 80% or so.
Huge amounts of corruption, i.e Bribery.

Iraq has been bombed by the US government many many times.
It provided Saddam with weapons of mass destruction as well as put him in his position.
Somehow the Iraqi people are to believe that America is their friend?

And all you people who keep mad-mouthing Muslims and trying to convince people that Muslims are the enemy; hate it so much when someone on the Muslim side is telling other Muslims to hate the West.
You are doing the same exact thing, so what is it you want?
To make a better world?

We're so good at criticising those few who are out there doing something.
Show me what you are doing? Where's your alternative?
Smashing is easy, we can all criticise.

I believe what I heard earlier was that Harun Yahya is a fundamentalist group.
From the things I've read at his website I haven't seen him promote nothing but understanding between Islam and the West.
He is an advocate for peace.
If people just what to criticise, then I say have a nice life.

We shouldn't waste our time in trivial pursuit.
Islam is a religion of peace, but by saying that I can't convince you because of what you see happening today.
Which is a modern phenomena.
Muslims need to start speaking out, this has gone way out of hand.

These people who call themselves freedom fighters are placing bombs next to places of worship, killing people queuing up for work, beheading people...

But the US Government isn't doing any better, and that's why Muslims are still sleeping.
The more you bring war to Muslim countries, the more people will be recruited to these organisations.
They will also gain alot of sympathy, and seen as spartacus type of characters.

But Bush and the other extremists in the white house want to do things the easy way, which is also the wrong way.
Doesn't take alot of thinking, sort of like a drive-by shooting.
And because of that mentality, thats the reason why Iraq is in such a mess.

I'm not with the terrorists, neither am I with the terrorists in the white house.
I am with the truth, even if the truth is bitter.

"What matters are muslims living in the middle east who are being raised to hate the west"

Its funny how brainwashed some of the people are hear.

Muslims in the middle east arent raised to hate the west, they grow to hate the west because of the injustices done by western countries like the U.S. invasion of Iraq for instance.

Theres brainwash and misperception going on both sides. Muslims in the middle east are fed propaganda to make them believe Americans hate them and are out to destroy them just as Americans are fed propaganda telling them that Muslims have a deep hatred for them and are out to get them.

There are extremists everywhere but that statement was extremely rascist and innacurate. Funny how many Americans get worked up when somebody generalizes them but its okay for Americans to generalize people in the Middle East.

[edit on 27-8-2005 by fishbrain]

You have voted fishbrain for the Way Above Top Secret award.

You said exactly what I wanted to say, but in a better way.

[edit on 27-8-2005 by colin_hal]