A gnostic is Agnostic

A gnostic is actually an agnostic in that they pursue knowledge.
Gnosis is a latin derivative, meaning knowledge. i.e. To have gnosis about architecture is to be knowledgeable of that
fuctionary study. It must be realized by the one who have trouble
defining faith and religion. I am a gnostic. I am then Agnostic.
I believe in the Christ, God, Buddah, Allah, YHWH, Jehova, Adonai,
the beney d'Elohim, G.A.O.U., and all forms of supreme deity.
This is fundamentally due to the fact that if asked a muslim would say Allah is supreme creator as they imagine. A christian would say God is. The ideas as psychological concepts in the humana mind are universal. Let us not confuse words with conceptual universals. I know that I am. I know that I am built by design in fashion that rivals and challenges doctor's and medical understanding as are all of you. Threrefore, none can assume they have no God. It is then to be said that no one has right to
declare truth as enforcable to any other. We are all gnostics, or agnostics as by definition we all seek knowledge regardless of faith. The term carries heretic tones for a time ago, people were suppressed from truth by power groups such as the Catholic church-circa hundreds of years ago. ( I am not using the example to offend Catholics) Is it not true though that a lad at a new job fuelling cars with petrol is applying gnosis to benefit his worth or value at the job to keep it. We all are agnostic, for remember:
The body is the temple, communion of like minds is church as we share and teach one another, and faith is a held belief in the actuality of something coming to pass. Religion means repetitious
action. I religiouosly wipe my butt after a trip to the lavatory, that is something I always do, when it's #2. I have faith I will before I go. My knowledge of potty training as a brat is gnosis to do so. One must always know context, for generalization is not democracy.

I disagree. First let's define the two.

Main Entry: gnos�ti�cism
Pronunciation: 'n�s-t&-"si-z&m
Function: noun
Usage: often capitalized
Date: 1664
: the thought and practice especially of various cults of late pre-Christian and early Christian centuries distinguished by the conviction that matter is evil and that emancipation comes through gnosis


Main Entry: ag�nos�tic
Pronunciation: ag-'n�s-tik, &g-
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnOstos known, from gignOskein to know -- more at KNOW
Date: 1869
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
- ag�nos�ti�cism /-t&-"si-z&m/ noun

I am agnostic, and I tend to believe that there is no god. But, as skeptical as I am, I can't prove it one way or the other. Logic tells me it's impossible, so I consider myself agnostic. I also recognize the fact that it is impossible for anyone to "know god". Those who claim to do so are suffering from delusions.

Back to the topic: These two words have no similarity at all.

READ MORE BOOKS! I'm sorry but as an individual with degrees in Archeology and linguistics, with some cultural Anthropology on the side I would have to say get your facts stright friend. The gnostics
were, yes I'll admit it savants of divine knowledge of sorts and considered heretic. However, let us look at the medium we use to
communicate. Gnosis is wisdom or knowledge and I'll bet any volume of money you choose on that. So, after you go and read up on it IN A BOOK and not some site that blathers as many do of personal speculation, you tell be how being Agnostic-To not follow a particular faith but to believe in a higher power is not then saying their wisdom comes from God? They believe in something don't they? They pursue knowledge to accrue wealth or status don't they? Well you show me your degrees and I'll show you mine. I am not angry I just want to have the truth spoken not the speculation of men. I am careful to research my information and God knows paid for some of the education myself so I am a little hurt yes at the random gab I see on a site I praise for the intellect I have seen here. With all my love-Lucifer

Originally posted by Lucifer
READ MORE BOOKS! I'm sorry but as an individual with degrees in Archeology and linguistics, with some cultural Anthropology on the side I would have to say get your facts stright friend. The gnostics
were, yes I'll admit it savants of divine knowledge of sorts and considered heretic. However, let us look at the medium we use to
communicate. Gnosis is wisdom or knowledge and I'll bet any volume of money you choose on that. So, after you go and read up on it IN A BOOK and not some site that blathers as many do of personal speculation, you tell be how being Agnostic-To not follow a particular faith but to believe in a higher power is not then saying their wisdom comes from God? They believe in something don't they? They pursue knowledge to accrue wealth or status don't they? Well you show me your degrees and I'll show you mine. I am not angry I just want to have the truth spoken not the speculation of men. I am careful to research my information and God knows paid for some of the education myself so I am a little hurt yes at the random gab I see on a site I praise for the intellect I have seen here. With all my love-Lucifer

Ummmmm, that was from Merriam Webster Dictionary. Hardly a nonrespectable source.

You're comparing a form of religious philosophy (Gnosticism) to another based only on fact? (Agnosticism)

This doesn't sound anything like agnosticism to me.

GNOSTICISM IS THE TEACHING based on Gnosis, the knowledge of transcendence arrived at by way of interior, intuitive means. Although Gnosticism thus rests on personal religious experience, it is a mistake to assume all such experience results in Gnostic recognitions. It is nearer the truth to say that Gnosticism expresses a specific religious experience, an experience that does not lend itself to the language of theology or philosophy, but which is instead closely affinitized to, and expresses itself through, the medium of myth. Indeed, one finds that most Gnostic scriptures take the forms of myths. The term �myth� should not here be taken to mean �stories that are not true�, but rather, that the truths embodied in these myths are of a different order from the dogmas of theology or the statements of philosophy.

www.gnosis.org...

If there's any religious experience or myth involved, it surely isn't agnostic, IMO. Agnostics are not religious. Arguably, one who is a believer in "god" or "religion, is not an agnostic.

An agnostic is a person who feels that God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved, on the basis of current evidence. Agnostics note that some theologians and philosophers have tried to to prove, for millennia, that God exists. Others have attempted to prove that God does not exist. Neither side has convincingly succeeded at their task.

www.religioustolerance.org...

So, maybe you can explain how a philosophy that is of a personal "religious" experience can be associated with agnosticism? I don't see it.

I take agnosticism very seriously. It's who I am. I don't even believe in good or evil, for those are merely religious terms created by man. I only believe in what I know exists as laws of the universe....negative, positive, and neutrality. Get my facts straight? I only believe in facts. Show me my error here, and I'll surely agree, as long as it's truly factual.

[Edited on 28-8-2003 by Satyr]

My dictionary can beat up your dictionary....


Save you brainpower for more important things earthlings


[Everything is permissable]

A dictionary is not the place to solve this issue.

Look at history and do the research.

Gnostics were seekers of spiritual and metaphysical knowledge period!

They were also a storehouse and keeper of secret and higher learning.

If it concerns god then they were involved in it.

I tend to agree with the gnostic perspective or approach although I consider myself a christian. Weird combination but not that unlikely really.

Early gnostic groups were cathars and knights templars which were christian sects.

The real issue here is divergence on one of two paths and why?

Service to self or service to others.

The biggest question unanswered in my quest for knowledge is what makes a person/spirit choose one path over the other?

any ideas?

Agnostics tend to be skeptics, and don't believe in anything without factual proof. They surely aren't described as "spiritual". I've never met an agnostic that believes in god. Have you? So how doesn't the dictionary definition fit? It's very much impossible to believe something exists that can neither be proven, nor disproven, for an agnostic. Agnostics are secular, for the most part.

satyr,

if we could know why people have faith or do not have faith then we would be amongst the wisest there is!

oh well,

the quest continues.

I do know. It's called weakness, brainwashing, or a need to feel close to divinity. There's no other reasons, are there?

Satyr,

I prefer the need to feel close to divinity of your choices mentioned for obvious reasons.

Still that does not explain anything really.

Wanting to be back home?

That's about the equivalent to political groupies, who want to hang out with powerful people, only because they're powerful. It makes them feel good to be associated and/or approved by someone whom they consider mighty. It's sheep mentality at it's finest. Grow some originality, and stop living on the apron strings of powerful people and/or fairy tale figures.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I have read, Gnostics claim to hold knowledge (gnosis- from which the term Gnostic is derived) that others do not (i.e. the Church).

From my readings, this gnosis can be whittled down to the belief that Jesus taught that man is a product of God, made of God and therefore, by searching and knowing oneself, man is able to find God within himself as himself; upon this, man is equal to God if not God himself (There are some quotes from some Gnostic texts that refer to this but I don't have them at my disposal at this time, I believe some are in the Gospel of Thomas).

This relates directly to what I have deducted is the Gnostic idea of heaven: Heaven is a state of mind that can be reached after this searching and finding God within/as himself. This idea is very similar to the Buddhist state of Nirvana.

For obvious political and establishment reasons, these Gnostic texts which spoke of this type of Jesus' teachings weren't canonized by the Cousel of Nicaea while other texts containing minimal entries of his teachings were edited and then cononized to follow form.

This is understandable though (sarcasm)- how could the Church become a sociopolitical establishment or hold any power while people believedhat God/Heaven can be found within themselves, especially outside the Church?