Is energy created in the Beggining?

One thing has been bothering me about the big bang theory. The law of thermodynamics clearly states that energy is neither created nor destroyed. So where did all the energy come from that created the big bang since energy cannot be created according to thermodynamics.
Any anwsers anyone?

that is so very correct. matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. neither can space or time.

this is an even bigger problem with the big bang theory.
how did matter exist without space or time?

what caused the matter, that supposedly existed, to explode/expand?

the big bang theory is a big dud, it never happened.


EC

Is that it? Everyone in this forum is just posting from a couch in their mother's basement? Eating fudge jumbles, blowing smoke out the window and ready to take on scientific community?

Here's a thought. What if like to fish, WE'RE THE FISH!?!

You know what I mean man? Like just swimming in the air. Wooooah. Heavy.

Contrary to what some guy on the Internet may have told you, the Big Bang theory postulates that all observable phenomenon in the universe could be explained by an enormously dense and hot singularity that did indeed contain everything.

It's in the first line. Like a 30 second google search.

At least look theories up, before picking a fight with them.

nah man. I actually have a job. I dont know about anyone else.
but I do have a lot of time on my hands to do research.

im not trying to pull information out of my rear end. I am simply basing everything off of what I am told by those older than me (teachers, science journals, other forums and emails)

believe me, I dont pull things out of the clear blue sky. if I did, that would be lying and stupid.


EC

I believe that before the BB the energy was still there but in a different form waiting for the moment to be released and converted into other forms of energy and matter. The release mechanism I believe was light (which before the BB was slower than today) which spontaneously or by some other method gained enough energy to break free and start the ball rolling so to speak.

G

The laws of Thermodynamics apply to closed systems in the universe as we know it today... the basic laws of physics we know today did not even exist yet at teh time of the singularity.

It may help if you understand the what 99% of what the general public knows about the big bang, about string theory, about cosmology in general... AREN'T really the theories themselves.

What you and I discuss are very high level verbal approximations of the theories. The real meat and potatoes if you will lies in the physics and mathematics most people wouldnt even comprehend without years of study. The verbal descriptions are to help people conceptualize the very BASIC ideas.

You can't hope to understand everything about the Big Bang or attempt to debunk it based on the content of a few sentences of general description any more than you could critique War and Peace by reading the synopsis on the dust jacket.

Originally posted by RANT
It's in the first line. Like a 30 second google search.

Your lavender-scented puke didn't even answer the original question.

I think the official scientific answer is that a quark randomly appeared in the vacuum of time and space and then manifested into the singularity that became known as the Big Bang.

The proof of this theory is that scientists have observed quarks randomly appearing in vacuums. What's funny though is that these vacuums take place within time and space, so it really is no proof at all.

The laws of Thermodynamics apply to closed systems in the universe as we know it today... the basic laws of physics we know today did not even exist yet at teh time of the singularity.

well see the problem with that theory is that the universe is a closed system by definition, not receiving anymore energy nor losing energy to anything outside of the universe.

The proof of this theory is that scientists have observed quarks randomly appearing in vacuums. What's funny though is that these vacuums take place within time and space, so it really is no proof at all.

I think the official scientific answer is that a quark randomly appeared in the vacuum of time and space and then manifested into the singularity that became known as the Big Bang.

your on the right track. but a quark cannot appear where there is no time or space and the big bang theorizes that before the expansion or explosion, time and space did not exists. therefore the theory cannot be valid.

time space and matter have to come into existance all at the same instant.


EC

Originally posted by Fingon
Any anwsers anyone?

If you notice, the big bang does not state that it was created out of nowhere. Thermodynamics says that energy can't be created and destroyed. The big bang is in perfect accord with this.No part says that there was absolutely nothing, and then an explosion.

Here is a thread on this topic
Big Problems with the Big Bang




[edit on 18-8-2005 by Nygdan]